|   Oh geez ... now "freeride skis"??? | Harovore
Dec 29, 2001 9:00 PM | | Just got back from a short trip to Snow Summit (Big Bear, CA) where my 6-year-old daughter had her 1st ski lesson. Gotta admit that despite having a seriously screwed up right knee, I was tempted to get back out on the mtn to just cruise around on the slopes again -- it's been exactly 20 years since I last skied.
Unfortunately, my sis convinced me to give my trusty ol' Olin Mark IV skis away to the Salvation Army last year, reminding me that it wouldn't not take much more damage to my right knee to give me a permanent limp; that is, more than the one I'm already sporting.
Anyway, while at Big Bear I noticed that all the newer skis have flared ends (both front and rear). Naturally, I went to Francis' ski review website to try to get caught up on ski brands, models, any new technology that's come down the pike since 1981, and of course prices.
So, I now see that there are "freeride skis," eh? What's this all about? They're supposed to be wider width, but for what now?
BTW, before quitting skiing in 1981, I was "this close" to buying what I thought were an excellent pair of recreational skis: Rossignol STS. I think I'm again in the market for such a ski: flexy enough for a nice, smooth ride, no extreme skiing, no hotdoggin', no moguls, nothing like that at all. But, I don't want noodles either.
So, my question to you informed skiers in here (and I know there are many here who really know their stuff), what's a good quality, recreational ski for a guy about 5'7" and about 180 lbs.? I also don't plan to buy anything longer than about 185s.
What I'm looking for is essentially Shimano LX-level gear for skiing, if this reference helps: not too pricey at all, good, solid performance, but not geared for racing.
Also, what are some good bindings? Salomon still in business, and (if so) are they still pretty good? What can you tell me about bindings *AND* boots (I used to own Kabers)? I need boots to fit an "E" or "EE" width foot.
Thanks for your input. I appreciate it.
Harovore (has found yet something else to invest his money into :-P) |
| re: Oh geez ... now "freeride skis"??? | bachman61
Dec 29, 2001 10:55 PM | | Per skis,,, I also took many years off from the ski hills and got as far away from technology and equipment as possible while still inhabiting the same planet. I had re-discovered mountain biking after moving from Michigan to Colorado though. Anyhoo, you probably want to surf and read the ski mags and sites to beef up a bit on stuff but you obviously know of the shorter length, shaped ski design that has become the standard. At 40 years of age, I'm taking a moderate approach to most of what I do these days, nursing an A/C shoulder separation from the *^%%# mountain bike and a knee surgery of last February. I also want a ski I can grow into so I'm looking at Volkl G-2 or G-3, Saloman Pilot 10 X or Atomic Beta Ride skis. These are in the all-mountain advanced or expert level and offer me something to grow into as well as flexibility of all mountain conditions. (They typically don't excell in the bumps but my body has been through enuf so I don't plan on spending a day on the mogul fields anywayz). You may consider the all mountain catagory in an intermediate level to get a price point in the moderate neighborhood of $400 to $550.00. I would be in the same boat except I may have a line on last years 10 X used for $395.00 that were listing at $1195.00 new w/ bindings. Carvers are also another type to look at that probably hit the mid-price area. A bit different side cut than the all mountain profile. I'm told you need to ski the tip height to your nose / forehead area. The shorter skis of new ski like the longer of old. Best of luck and consider a helmet.... I still have a pair of hexel sundance skis somewhere around the basement and I had the Caber boots back in the mid 70's too. I am currently on a 10 to 11 year old pair of PRE skis w/ saloman 959 bindings and nordica boots. I recommend demos to get on and try out the new style and if possible, demo the ski you are considering.
brian as bachman61@aol.com
somewhere near N O R A D |
| HEXCELS??? | AK Ken
Dec 29, 2001 11:29 PM | | Boy, it's been a long time since anything tripped the HEXCEL synapses in my brainpan. I remember getting some 210 Hexcel Comps on a pro deal for fifty bucks. That was expensive, cause we could get all the K2s we could eat for fifteen bucks a pair.
I still have a pair of Hexcels in the basement somewhere, and dig them out every 5 years or so and go out behind the house and use a snowmobile for a chairlift and do a little skiing.
My "good" skis now are 210 Volkl Softs, but they're 20 years old, or close to it, also. There's something wrong with them, too, as they used to turn every time I planted my pole and said "KUH". Last time we went to Alyeska I noticed they only turned about every fourth time I planted my pole and said "KUH".
As for Olins, I had many pairs of Mark IIs over the years, 205s, 210s, and 215s. My wife still has an unmounted pair of Mark VIs in the basement. For sale CHEEP.
Thanks for triggering the avalanche of memories, you guys.
Ken |
| Mark VI??? | Harovore
Dec 29, 2001 11:39 PM | | How old? Length? Price? Don't remember how they differed from the Mark IVs (my old skis). Can you enlighten me? I may be interested, Ken. Let me know at my above e-mail addy. Thanks, Herb. |
| e-mail addy | Harovore
Dec 29, 2001 11:43 PM | | Sorry, Ken. My e-mail addy didn't seem to take the first time. Here's one:
Herb@UCLAlumni.net
Thanks,
Herb |
| re: Oh geez ... now "freeride skis"??? | bachman61
Dec 29, 2001 10:56 PM | | Per skis,,, I also took many years off from the ski hills and got as far away from technology and equipment as possible while still inhabiting the same planet. I had re-discovered mountain biking after moving from Michigan to Colorado though. Anyhoo, you probably want to surf and read the ski mags and sites to beef up a bit on stuff but you obviously know of the shorter length, shaped ski design that has become the standard. At 40 years of age, I'm taking a moderate approach to most of what I do these days, nursing an A/C shoulder separation from the *^%%# mountain bike and a knee surgery of last February. I also want a ski I can grow into so I'm looking at Volkl G-2 or G-3, Saloman Pilot 10 X or Atomic Beta Ride skis. These are in the all-mountain advanced or expert level and offer me something to grow into as well as flexibility of all mountain conditions. (They typically don't excell in the bumps but my body has been through enuf so I don't plan on spending a day on the mogul fields anywayz). You may consider the all mountain catagory in an intermediate level to get a price point in the moderate neighborhood of $400 to $550.00. I would be in the same boat except I may have a line on last years 10 X used for $395.00 that were listing at $1195.00 new w/ bindings. Carvers are also another type to look at that probably hit the mid-price area. A bit different side cut than the all mountain profile. I'm told you need to ski the tip height to your nose / forehead area. The shorter skis of new ski like the longer of old. Best of luck and consider a helmet.... I still have a pair of hexel sundance skis somewhere around the basement and I had the Caber boots back in the mid 70's too. I am currently on a 10 to 11 year old pair of PRE skis w/ saloman 959 bindings and nordica boots. I recommend demos to get on and try out the new style and if possible, demo the ski you are considering. Best of luck and don't forget the helmet ..
brian as bachman61@aol.com
somewhere near N O R A D |
| great advice, thanks Brian... | Harovore
Dec 29, 2001 11:35 PM | | Will be browsing ski mags' websites for initial info, then turn to the rags themselves to get reacquainted with all the new technology. Already checked out Rossi's, K2's, and Head's websites for some info. Seriously steep learning curve right now ... geez.
I won't be doing much more than just cruising around on the slopes, Bri, so I won't be needing that helmet. But, I may consider one for my kids -- I'm getting back into the sport primarily to help them learn to ski and to have another sport that my wife and I can both enjoy together with the kids.
Thanks for your valuable and thoughtful input, Brian. It is very much appreciated.
Harovore (Herb) |
| re: Oh geez ... now "freeride skis"??? | Mr Blur
Dec 30, 2001 6:05 AM | | I wonder what LAX lost & found does w/ all the skis they have in storage? (HINT!) How's the weather in Los Angeles?
H.A.B.I.B. |
| Wow! You're a dinosaur ... | dogbert
Dec 30, 2001 6:56 AM | | Forget about going back 20 years, ski equipment has evolved greatly even in just the past 4-5 years! Just as with a mtn bike, read the reviews and mags, and try to demo a few different models of skis...shaped skis these days.
Freeride skis have been around for a few years. They are somewhat of an all-around ski for someone who skis a variety of terrain (groomed, some powder, off-piste, etc.). Their waists are usually around 70mm wide ±. Narrower than a pure powder (fat) ski, but wider than a conventional ski. Although getting better, they don't have quite the edge grip of a narrower-waisted ski, so if you ski on hardpack, ice, or packed powder mostly (i.e., the northeast), they wouldn't be such a good choice.
I demo'd about a dozen different skis (some ski areas have demo days where you can try out a bunch, or you could just rent different models from various ski shops) prior to buying a set of Atomic BetaCarve 9.18's a few years back. They are consistently considered an excellent intermediate/advanced ski. Many skis are great now, but you will notice a different feel with each. It's why you should demo. Rossi, Volkl, Volant, Atomic, Salomon, you name it. I could never get comfortable on Fischer skis, and surprisingly didn't care for Rossi's, either, although they're extremely popular.
One thing you should definitely do is go shorter on ski length. I used to own a pair of Salomon all-mountain skis that were about a 205 length, then went to a Volant soft-slalom ski in a 195-200. I'm about 6' tall, 170 lbs. After demoing many shaped skis in shorter lengths, I bought a pair of Atomics in 190. They had a performance guarantee, and after skiing them a few times, I exchanged them for the same ski in a 180 cm. It's 25cm less than what I used to ski, but I'm having more fun now and skiing trails that are much harder with less effort. I used to be a blue cruiser, but now spend most of my time on the blacks (and even some double-blacks) as well as doing some recreational racing. Also, because of the terrain and speeds I'm now skiing, I'm a helmet convert.
Bindings and boots have evolved, too. Most bindings (Marker, Rossi, Salomon) have lifts which raise the boot a little on the ski and add leverage for turns. A lot of bindings now have a floating mounting system so there's no flat spot under the boot, which gives (theoretically, at least) better turning ability. With the newer shaped skis, you don't need boots as stiff as oak trees anymore. Most intermediate boots have a soft forward flex, but are stiff laterally to better edge the newer skis. I can't help you on wider boots that would fit you, as I'm in a very narrow-fitted boot myself with a silicone-injected custom liner. I think Rossignol is the company that bought Caber back in the early 90's or so, but I'm not sure. Try Nordica, Tecnica, or Dolomites. Lange and Rossi are usually on the narrow side.
Finally, once you get some new equipment, take a few lessons again, regardless of how good you used to be. You'll pretty much want to forget everything you used to know about the "old school" techniques. It's not so much up-and-down anymore as it is side-to-side, with your feet wider. Good luck and sorry for the long post. Discussing skiing does that to me! |
| Great info, dogbert... | Harovore
Dec 30, 2001 9:28 AM | | Thanks a lot for the great info and advice. Great stuff requiring consideration. If I follow through with buying some newer skis (READ: If my wife gives me permission :-), I'll be sure to let you know how everything goes.
Till then, have a Happy New Year. Maybe it be filled with plenty of chi-chi mtn bikes and components *and* skis as well.
"Harosaurus" :-) |
| Parabolics... | John
Dec 30, 2001 9:46 AM | | Pretty cool huh?. the flares, or more distinctive side cut with wider tip and tail make the ski faster edge to edge. With an increase in torsional rigidity theyre also pretty stable at speed.
Im about your size and ride conventional 200cm Pre's. The skis design should allow you to ride a 185 with no problem. The cool binding's right now are those same bindings that where cool in the mid 70's. ..remember the LOOK platform bindings? well now theyre all the rage cuz they dont affect the flexing of the ski in a turn. |
| hey, welcome to the new world... | gonzostrike
Dec 31, 2001 10:31 AM | | BTW, the "freeride" monniker appeared earlier in skiing than it did in mtb riding. The mtb application grew out of the skiing application. It comes from the old ski racer's distinction between running gates and "free skiing" ---> morphed into "freeskiing" ---> morphed into "freeriding" when the term expanded to include snowboarders. MTB riders co-opted the term.
Amazing stuff has happened in the ski equipment business during the last 20 years. Skis now are able to be torsionally stiff while longitudinally soft, an amazing combination that was impossible 20 or even 15 years ago. The skis in any category are very very close in quality, with differences primarily resting in feel and in topskin graphics.
Bindings -- you cannot go wrong with any of the alpine bindings available today. Just buy something that puts your DIN setting in the middle of the binding's range.
Boots -- depends entirely on your foot shape. Cabers were low-volume narrow last boots. Current boots in that shape -- Dolomite Sintesi series, Salomon Course series, Lange L series and Banshee series, and all Head boots.
Conglomeration -- (1) Kastle skis were bought by Nordica. Nordica originally co-operated with Kastle, but now it's pure Nordica design and mfre. (2) Head bought San Marco boots. All Head boots fit like San Marcos used to -- narrow, close to shell performance fit. (3) Atomic bought EssVar bindings and now they are sold as Atomic Xentrix bindings. (4) Rossignol bought Geze bindings and then Look bindings. The product lines in Rossi and Look are identical, with different graphics and, strangely enough, different pricing. The toe design basically is the old Geze design, easily one of the industry's best, because it has excellent elasticity and function. The step-in heels are Geze design, and the turntable heels are Look design. (5) Salomon now makes skis, boots and bindings. Their skis are superb, as are their boots.
As to what's available by specific product, I suggest you go to two places to read about equipment -- www.techsupportforskiers.com and www.epicski.com
Good luck! You're about to have a whole ton of fun. |
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