|   Is the Pendulum swinging back to hardtails? | Rev Bubba
Mar 6, 2002 12:47 PM | | Over the past few years, the hot bike was the full suspension (both freeride and xc versions). Is the pendulum swinging back to the basic hardtail. I've noticed a number of recommendations for not only hardtails but steel ones at that? Yes, I'm buying a steel hardtail but is there a renewed interest in the basic ride by other?
NOTE: I am not saying either type or any one type is a better ride then any other. |
| No. Soft tails are hawt now! nm | Braids
Mar 6, 2002 1:00 PM | | nm |
| Am I the only one who thinks soft tail is a half-ass bike? | K-Zero
Mar 6, 2002 1:49 PM | | I mean, c'mon...softail doesn't feel as crisp as HT and heavier too, yet costs just as much as FS. But compared to FS the "rear-suspension" on softails is a joke. I guess it's appealing to some racers who refuse to ride FS?
Just my opinion,
K-Zero |
| What softtails have you ridden? (nm) | Biking Viking
Mar 6, 2002 1:56 PM | | . |
| Trek 400 STP, Litespeed Unicoi... | K-Zero
Mar 6, 2002 2:15 PM | | Unicoi felt just like a (really expensive) HT, but I wasn't all that impressed with STP.
K-Zero |
| Don't they both use Rockshox shocks? | Braids
Mar 6, 2002 2:25 PM | | They also only have around 1" of travel. My bike does not feel like a hardtail and I've only ridden hardtails up until this bike. |
| How much travel travel does your softail have? The most I've seen is 1.25in (nm) | K-Zero
Mar 6, 2002 3:36 PM | | . |
| Oops, I stuttered (nm) | K-Zero
Mar 6, 2002 3:38 PM | | . |
| 1.75" on the Silk Ti | Braids
Mar 6, 2002 5:07 PM | | the Ibis website is still up.
http://www.ibiscycles.com
There is info there on the Riply and the Silk Ti still. |
| I kind of agree with you. | Biking Viking
Mar 6, 2002 2:25 PM | | It's by no means a FS bike, and it isn't as crisp as a hardtail, but it's pretty close. Half-ass or not, it's very, very efficient, though. When it's not too bumby, it provides the same climbing traction as your SC Superlight without the extra weight and complexity/maintenance. I sometimes clean steep climbs on semislicks where my buddies on hardtails spin out on full knobbies.
You have raced the Domaine Chandon WC course in Napa. The softtail design really shine on those climbs.
BV |
| Would love to try out your Moots sometime... | K-Zero
Mar 6, 2002 3:42 PM | | ...but then again, your bike may be nice only because it got a kick-ass engine I keep hearing about =)
K-Zero |
| Probably a Moots if he doesn't like them! :-P | Braids
Mar 6, 2002 2:16 PM | | He'll never get the chance to ride the beauty that is an Ibis now.
I was looking at Softtails or ti hardtails last year specifically an Ibis Ti Mojo. The local Ibis dealer owner happened to own a Silk Ti in my size. He let me test ride his bike and I liked it. I did some investigation (I looked at reviews on this site and some mag reviews) and I liked what I read about the Silk Ti. It was also available in a 17.5 and I don't think the Moots is but I can't remeber at this time. The Ibis also has more travel and I have to admit the stays looked so cool!
I'm happy with my softtail and I'm still looking at some freeride bikes now. Different tools to do different things.
I'd also like a steel hardtail and I would ride it. I just love looking at bikes. I really do think they're works of art. |
| The Silk Ti is a clever design, not as pretty as the Moots... | Biking Viking
Mar 6, 2002 2:29 PM | | ...IMO, but technically better.
Had it been available three years ago, I might have had one, too.
BV |
| Trade a Silk Ti for a Truth? | Harvey
Mar 6, 2002 5:29 PM | | I've been toying with the idea of trading my Silk Ti (size L) for a similar sized Truth frame in excellent condition. Anyone interested?? (this isn't a commitment, just an inquiry) |
| Then buy a Mrazek! nm | pedalAZ
Mar 7, 2002 1:23 PM | | |
| yes/no/yes/no/yes/no/tick/tock | JimC
Mar 6, 2002 1:03 PM | | well you said pendulum. But after 1-2 years of bigger travel, I'm looking for a short-travel XC bike. I miss XC. Jim *not ticked off* |
| Lately for me, yes...... | celly
Mar 6, 2002 1:03 PM | | Just re-built up my hardtail. Ain't steel though. Still love my dually, though. |
| I'll never buy a full suspension frame... | Timmy
Mar 6, 2002 1:14 PM | | but only because my wife won't let me.
I do love my hardtail though.
TCN (used up his bike allowance of some time to come) |
| whoa...new universal truth emerges.... | JimC
Mar 6, 2002 1:26 PM | | I spent it all on the 6" travel bike, now no $ for anthing remotely XC.
There must be some sort of Universal Rule(s) at work here restricting us to 1 bike.
Jim |
| i too am a victim of this.... | mtbmon
Mar 6, 2002 1:49 PM | | but I want more!!!!!!!!!!!!!! waaaaahhhhhhhh!!!!!! |
| Hmm one bike....haven't seen that since...1988?!? | Red Ascent
Mar 6, 2002 7:06 PM | | When I bought my Bianchi road racer to go with my Puch tourer. Still have both bikes....current count is 7, 4 of which are actually in a rideable state.
Maybe you need to teach her the facs of life, Scott - be a man! Lay down the Law of Many Bikes!
Phil |
| One bike?....I've not seen that for.... | bobcat
Mar 6, 2002 2:03 PM | | years, like when I was 12. Current score: bobcat has 4 bikes, Pikagrrrrrl 5. Jim, you need to be a collector... |
| I am collecting, bobcat | JimC
Mar 6, 2002 2:08 PM | | bills. argh. but I have a dream.....
Jim |
| 5 bikes!!! Pika - why? | LeeL
Mar 6, 2002 4:54 PM | | How many rigid forks and toeclips can one have??? |
| There is - Marriage............nm | Rev Bubba
Mar 7, 2002 6:11 AM | | nm |
| My heart 'N mind say rigid, but my back says FS-[nmfof] | Bikebreath
Mar 6, 2002 1:29 PM | | [nmfof]=no message from old fart.
Bb |
| Depends who you talk to | -Chip.
Mar 6, 2002 1:29 PM | | In the Passion world there was the flurry of Bakka purchases last year, followed by this year's accounts of hardtail purchasing by some EastCoasters. Additionally, it seems that we read a fair amount of posts regarding the purchases of road bikes (a.k.a. - going to the dark side).
Everything I read/hear outside of this little community leads me to believe that the FS XC bike is where it's at for most consumers, followed closely by those freeride things.
-C
p.s. - If I were you I'd go Steelman for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the fact that Sabine the Bike Goddess rides them. ;-) |
| The best of both worlds.. | Jrm
Mar 6, 2002 1:31 PM | | Each have there purpose and venue. And in the case of owning both, the fallacy of more is better comes true... |
| we're aging or the economy is good | hackwriter
Mar 6, 2002 1:45 PM | | It's got to be one of those two things. As we get older we're less likely to go hucking with our free ride machine. (possible) As a community since we're all working we think too much about making it to work on Monday to live the Full-on lifestyle. (probable) The other side to the second argument is we become more interested in quality stuff that will last, and is pretty.
JMTC
Peace |
| I agree that it depends on who you ask..... | Stick
Mar 6, 2002 1:53 PM | | For me, I'm definitely more at home now that I'm back (after 2 yrs riding FS) on a HT. Can't say if I ride better on a HT, but I feel better on it. Am in the process of shopping for a new one, in fact, in lieu of purchasing the '02 Heckler I'd been drooling over since seeing pics from interbike.
Pendulum swing? Doubtful. But yes, HT's will always have a place among the finest MTB's, regardless of what technology's doing ten or 20 or 50 yrs down the line. And the lucky ones among us will still be riding 'em! |
| I don't know about the rest but | AndyE
Mar 6, 2002 2:00 PM | | I went back to a hardtail a in 2000 and will probably stay there. As far as steel, I just bought (ordered) my first steel bike, a Serotta fierte road bike. |
| Woah. Nice (nm) | scorcher
Mar 7, 2002 1:25 AM | | |
| nope, tried it, too harsh and not very fun | Jm
Mar 6, 2002 2:02 PM | | I like to be able to take more lines and do more stuff that my hardtail would allow, sure you "could" get a certain kind of hardtail and build it up to take serious abuse, but then you might as well have some suspension in there anyhow if you are going to have a bike like that. I started on a hardtail, then bought another one, then got my first FS bike, then got a freeride FS, then built up a hardtail to race and do some XC on, but found it too harsh and remembered all the fun i was having on the same trails on my FS bikes, then bought a DH bike, and finally replaced the hardtail with a freeride FS again.
Hardtails are too limiting for me. |
| Yes. | 2melow
Mar 6, 2002 2:12 PM | | That is currently the industry trend. People who have experienced full suspension are going back to hardtails..I myself am guilty of this.
BTW, I just called IF to shoot the sh!t and see where my rigid 29"er fork is, and had a nice 20 minute conversation w/ John (head cheese) over at IF. I asked when a softail is gonna happen, he said probably not, at least not soon. Currently, people don't want to fuss with anything related to moving parts, and IF is still growing just building hardtails. Also, in the less than 6 months they have been making TI bikes, they already account for 40% of frames built. So it looks like Ti hardtails are making a strong comeback. Watch out Seven! |
| I rode a Trek STP for a while and thought it sucked. | MTB
Mar 6, 2002 2:15 PM | | I got it for an amazing price. STP 400 and it feelt like a 9.8 with maybe a tiny bit of movement. The bike was very fast but I feel that the STP is a waste. maybe thats why they only build one model now. Not enough travel to do S..t! Also didn't care for the carbon fiber and the bike started making an awful ticking noise during every pedal stroke. no one could figure it out. Im done venting on that bike |
| "The rumours of my death have been greatly exaggerated." | Red Ascent
Mar 6, 2002 2:22 PM | | I don't think the pendulum was ever swinging
i away
from hardtails. Hardtails have always given the most "bang for the buck", especially for the vast majority of MTBers who don't ride highly technical trails. Despite this, the XC full suspension bike has become far more accessible to the average rider over the last 2 years. Prior to that, there were full suspension rigs available for under $800 - but they either used poor designs, cheap shocks, or were outrageously heavy (as in 40+ lbs.). As a result, I'm seeing far more duallies on the trails I ride - even though the trails here in NE Ohio really don't require a dual suspension bike. As designs have improved, mass production has brought the prices down to reasonable levels, especially now that companies aren't having to change them every year as a result of failures and poor sales(witness the Trek VRX, Specialized AIM Ground Control, and Diamondback Dual Response as prime examples). Large companies like Giant, Specialized, and Cannondale have made full-suspension a viable option for mid-range riders, and this is a good thing. As a result, many product managers for hardtails have had to rethink their offerings, and now we are seeing a spike in hardtail reviews, new models, etc, especially in the revival department (witness the increase in steel hardtail offerings and 29" offerings also), when really, these things were never dead - it was just that XC duallie bikes had finally made the grade, and were hogging up the spotlight.
Personally, I've never stopped riding my hardtail. I personally think the current rigid/singlespeed movement is no different than the old "retrogrouch" roadies who refused to use index shifting when it finally became available to the masses in the late 80's, and just as those folks were rendered redundant, well, so will the rigid crowd be, and perhaps the 1x1 crowd too. Time will tell...but hardtails are, I think all will agree, here to stay. What's more, they never left!
Phil |
| I don't think so, but... | Dave K
Mar 6, 2002 2:23 PM | | around here, I think that some riders are finding the big 7-9" FS bikes are extremely limited in their range of fun. They only go down the hill. Riding those pigs up typically means they're walking. If you only want shuttle runs, then you're limited to the areas you can ride. As such I know several riders who have bought heavier hardtails (420, Minute Man, Implant, etc) that widen their areas of riding.
Anyways, I want to do much more than pure DH. I love long XC rides as much as I love flying down hills dropping stuff here and there. My hardtail doesn't limit my line choice. My brain does that. Even when I decide that something is a bit tough for me, I know other riders on their HT's will drop it without a second thought. There are also lots of stuff that I ride that others on their FS bikes don't. It's the rider and not the bike. Hardtails also teach me to be a smoother rider. I did have a FS bike (although it is just a measely Pipeline), but I found that I just got lazy in line choice. It wasn't any more fun than my Dekerf Implant is.
Also, there is the maintenance factor. Yes FS bikes are much better these days, but there are still at least one large pivot to lookk after and a shock. I don't know many riders on their FS bikes that haven't had to take some time off the bike for some repairs to the suspension.
One day I will again be on a FS bike. A custom Quasi Moto DH perhaps. I just have to find something that fits my style as opposed to the bike making me adapt to it.
Overall I think there is a renewed interest in HTs. Mostly by more experienced riders who want perhaps something simpler and more basic. Looking at the bike shops I still see LOTS of FS bikes on the floor. Much more than there were just 4 years ago.
Dave |
| Nope.nm | fred³
Mar 6, 2002 2:32 PM | | |
| I think... WOOOOSSHH! (thud) | hedgehog
Mar 6, 2002 3:01 PM | | Ouch! Damn pendulum knocked me right off my chair!
Trends shmends, if all I had access to was a 30 pound rigid, I'd be riding that.
But seriously Rev, don't let marketing trends, LBS weenies or evil peer pressure dictate what you ride. Ride what you like and let the rest decide for themselves. |
| OMG! It's fashion??? Better send my new dualie back...nm | bottombracket
Mar 6, 2002 3:29 PM | | |
| Lately for me, yup. | Fast Eddy
Mar 6, 2002 3:29 PM | | I haven't ridden my (very nice) superlight in nearly six months. I am madly in love with my steel. |
| A new breed of hardtail.... | BostonBullit
Mar 6, 2002 4:32 PM | | the urban/freeride folk are starting to give more attention to burly hardtails that can take heavy abuse without failure. LeToy, Balfa, PlanetX, and Evil come to mind....I built up a hardtail to work on basic skills, mainly because the Bullit has a habit of pulling me outta hairy situations. with the hardtail it's pretty much either do it right or get hurt ;)
here's a photo I shot of a prototype for the soon to be released Evil Imperial. the frame is overengineered rather than overbuilt, so while it's not XC racer light it isn't a pig either....it's crazy fun to tear around the city on!
BostonBullit |
| Everyone's different... | BikinBob
Mar 6, 2002 5:19 PM | | ...but some of the reasons are probably the same. I had 2 main reasons for going with the IF. 1 custom geometry. I imagine there are custom dually makers out there, but it's certainly not advertised much. 2 Simplicity. I'd rather put my maintenance time into drivetrain, fork, or wheels than replacing bearing/bushings in pivots, and adjusting travel, etc. I may get a dually someday, but only because I know I have the Indy to ride when I have to work on the linkage of the dually.
Bob |
| |
