|   So tell me - why did fork boots go away? | Biking Viking
May 20, 2002 9:03 AM | | I had the bushings changed in my trusty '99 SID XC last fall, and the new bushings came with the new XXX seals, allowing me to ditch the fork boots for the first time.
The fork has been feeling kind of harsh lately (that has never happened before), so I decided to give it an overhaul after my ride on Saturday.
As the fork came apart it was immediately appearant that those seals had failed in keeping the elements out during the CA wet season. The RedRum fork oil, which always used to come out bright red as new during disassembly when I ran boots, was red-grayish in color this time. Thats a sign of water ingress if you ask me.
So, tell me - what advantage of this technology "advancement" did I miss - other than a better looking fork?
BV |
| Actually, it will come out gray no matter what | kristian
May 20, 2002 9:09 AM | | The grayishness is actually a sign of slight wear on your forks internals and not water (or not completely water). Every fork I've ever owned looks gross when you change the oil--even with monthly oil changes in the summer and our semi-arid climate.
Theoretically, fork boots will slightly limit the amount of travel you are getting. Still I'm in agreement for a different reason--fork boots protect your stanchions in a crash! |
| "Rated best in initial quality" | Zaphod
May 20, 2002 9:18 AM | | Is a term used in the automotive industry. Meaning, when you first drive it, everything works marvelously... implication being who cares how it all works in a year or five.
In this disposable market-driven world, people go for the stylish fork because the boots get in the way of the clean look. Sadly *most* people won't actually ride their bike enough to contaminate the oil or blow the seals. Plus people don't notice the slow performance degradation over time until the fork gets fresh oil and/or new seals.
When I say most people, this excludes most everybody who frequents this site. *We* ride & I'm happy that you brought that contamination issue to my attention. My boot equipped atom bomb (on its 3rd+? set of seals and 2nd pair of sliders/bushings) will be up for replacement in the near term. I'll probably swap the boots across.
-Zaphod |
| "high-maintenance SID fork" - not yet. | Biking Viking
May 20, 2002 10:37 AM | | I have put down almost 6,000 miles on that 3 1/2-year old fork. For 2 1/4 years I did nothing but changing oil twice - only because the manual said I should. There was no degrading in performance, except I had to change the bushings after 2 3/4 years. That's pretty normal with any fork. This is where the boots came off, though.
Once I took off the boots, the fork suffered noticable change in performance after one wet winter season of riding. I changed the oil and it became like new again. It took me 25 minutes - WOW. Next winter, the boots are going back on.
Well, if I really AM getting those problems, I must say I got many years of trouble-free riding out of that fork. My next XC fork will be a SID too. No other fork beats the SID on weight.
BV |
| wow, obviously you got a good one | 2melow
May 20, 2002 11:09 AM | | http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/Front_Shock/product_21574.shtml
I didn't have the same luck with mine after using it for one season. Not only did the seals blow all the time, but they were F L E X Y when you got out of the saddle to sprint(never liked hearing the v-brakes rub the rim when really hammering.) Some reviews are really good, some not so good.
I've found that sure, Marzocchi forks are a bit heavier, but both air forks I have used have been maintenance free (other than changing the oil.) Now, my philosophy is lose that extra pound from your body, and don't worry about the bike weight. I am suprised you aren't breaking stuff being as big as you are and riding such lightweight components. Obviously you must have more finesse than most people...because riding a Sid XC and it not hanging in the garage by now is unheard of... |
| "my philosophy is lose that extra pound from your body"... | Biking Viking
May 20, 2002 12:54 PM | | Not everybody has a lot of extra weight to lose.
One of the reasons for the long lifetime is that the trails around here are really, really smooth.
Yes, the SIDs are flexy - I really hate when I trackstand and the brake pads are rubbing - and, you're correct, they also rub slightly on all-out sprints. But the disadvantages of the flex is not enough to slow me down when I race on that bike.
For me, on a 20-minute all-out climb, one pound of extra weigth equals five seconds. That's worth considering.
BV |
| One more thing... | AZ-X
May 20, 2002 1:20 PM | | Some of the "better" seals from different manufacturers work great if there is little moisture involved, but they suffer badly once it gets mucky... I'm sure you already know this, but just wanted to add it for the uninitiated. |
| It was an environmental issue...... | FreeRangeChicken
May 20, 2002 11:42 AM | | The little animals that they skinned for those fork boots got put on the endagered species list. The booming MTB industry took a toll on the little critters. They have refuges now where the little guys scan run free. Still gotta watch out for poachers though.... guess there's still a black market for their hides. |
| If you have good seals boots are unnecessary except for impact.. | AZ-X
May 20, 2002 12:02 PM | | protection from plants, rocks and debris. That's actually what their best at. Those scratches that can develope from large material impacts may help small particles migrate past the seals as the fork compresses. Otherwise, boots won't really do jack if your seals don't work well. There are always fork stanchions lying around the LBS from several different manufacturers that can attest to this fact. Once the seals stop working (if they ever really did in the first place), its over.
A good set of seals made by Enduro and other 3rd party accessory manufacturers, or the newest seals available from the big three fork manufacturers (personally, I like the blue Enduros...), are usually enough. The Enduro seals that I'm using on my Mars Elite are tight enough to cause a slight bit of stiction on the first stroke or two if the fork has been idle for a while, but it is more than worth it to have no maintenance issues and nearly perfectly clean internals.
Boots will only serve as a very minor first line of defense when your talking small particles and, sometimes, they actually help to trap the particles and give them more of a chance to penetrate the seals. I've seen this happen particularly often here in the desert.
If anyone wants to find out what seals are the best for their fork, a good source of info is, of course, the AngryAsian at www.angryasian.com. They have a pretty good forum going on over there too. |
| I should have prefaced this by saying much will depend on where | AZ-X
May 20, 2002 2:16 PM | | you ride and what type of soil and other conditions you'll encounter, but good seals are the most important thing. |
| absolutely necessary if you ride anything but smooth easy trails | Jm
May 20, 2002 4:46 PM | | for protection against nicks and scratches by rocks being thrown up, and the occasional crash where you lay the bike down. I can't see why some manufacturers omit them, it is pretty ludicrous when you ride a fork with a lot of exposed stanchion(5" or more travel) and then look at it a year down the road and notice all the scratches and nicks, it is just not worth it. Luckily there are some companies out there that make fork guards now for even right-side-up forks.
Another thing that our desert-friends(in aridzona where I used to be too) do not think much of is even the slightest amount of mud, creating puddles and bogs which flings up mud onto the stanchion, then the seals eventually pack up with dirt and grim and slowly begin to expand if not cleaned, it may happen fast or slow depending on your fork and how good the seals are, but if you are riding in really sloppy conditions with nothing it will probably happen, and faster if you don't change the oil as often as you should. |
| "Smooth easy trails...."? | AZ-X
May 20, 2002 7:54 PM | | Anyway, you may notice that almost all the fork manufacturers are now selling their forks without boots. The mini-boots on the newer Manitous are more like seal covers than boots for protecting your forks legs. As I mentioned, they're more interested in protecting the internals. As you alluded to, the only forks that are coming with shields are the long travel, free-ride types because they know the potential speeds that could be reached with these products where rocks and other debris could really do some damage. Notice that motocross forks are coming with shields now rather than boots. Shields are more effective and than boots for that sort of thing, and I have a sneaking suspicion that the dirt trapping issue (as well as possible stiction) is a part of that logic... I still believe that the seals are the key.
And I lived and rode in the wetness, snow and mud of Southern Ontario, Canada for 3 years before moving to AZ... |
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