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MountainBikeReview.com's Forum Archives - - Passion -
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HOLY CRAP THAT WAS FUN!!! (warning, SS content) (23 posts)
|  HOLY CRAP THAT WAS FUN!!! (warning, SS content) | dante
May 20, 2002 10:16 AM | | Ok, I posted here from work on sat after a maddening experience that included a street fair in the parking lot where my jeep had been parked, and a nice walk to an impound lot...
dante ""If you can't read this sign..." (very little mtb content)" 5/18/02 7:39pm
however. Soon after posting I got the word that a ride was going on in the mud-soaked Saxon woods, and I was able to borrow a bike since both mine were at home. I decided to try Keef's Brodie singlespeed, complete with AMP fork from about 10 years ago. Note, this is a drastic difference from my bullit or 28 lb HT and I wanted to see what all the fuss was about.
First impression - Ok, this is pretty fun, the relatively easy gearing (32-20) meant that just about everything was rideable, which was good b/c there was tons of mud/rocks/water/climbs, etc. After the first five min of searching for the shifters every 30 seconds, I was able to get used to just pedaling, and really started having fun. Just about everything was rideable as long as I hit it with enough speed and stood up and cranked. There were a couple short steep climbs that I didn't make due to muddy turns right before them that sapped my speed, but was able to get up just as far as the other guys I was riding with. Descents and rollers (ok, and that 3' I hit) were a tad sketchy, but only really spun out once on the fireroad, not sure I'd want much of a harder gearing...
So ok, it was more efficient (tight chain, much better rear hub than my current XT), it was faster (it forces you to go in two speeds, top speed and stop) and it was quieter, but there was more to it than those. It was just plain fun. Ended the ride with a big effin grin on my face and a desire to purchase one of these curious machines. Of course, by sunday I was back riding my nice cushy 18 speed bullit and not even thinking about trying to do the hills at Blue Mtn. or Trumbull on a SS, but it was just... fun. So to all who laugh and point and deride SSs, try one. Definitely changed my outlook on them (180 degrees, actually).
dante |
| Sounds like fun, but... | Biking Viking
May 20, 2002 10:24 AM | | ...if you ride faster on the SS than on the geared hardtail, then that is because you don't choose the most efficient gear combination when you are on your hardtail.
BV |
| I'd hate to see Weir on a gearie! (nm) | derek
May 20, 2002 10:40 AM | | |
| Nah, I'm just lazy... :) | dante
May 20, 2002 10:54 AM | | and I usually just choose the easiest solution, and if that is getting up the hill slower but expending less energy, than that's what I'll do. Eliminating that option ended up in a faster overall pace. :)
dante |
| Christ! Didn't we settle this yet? | Carl Mega
May 20, 2002 11:51 AM | | Flame bait but I'll bite.
First off - the guy's gearie is a Bullit not a hardtail.
Second, riding a single speed often changes a rider's mindset. Try as you might to remove the human factor in guaging 'expected' performance, I cannot accept that changing paradigms does not result in differing performance regardless of how many gears you use. Believe that you are forced to ride faster/harder and you just might. The equpiment you choose influences your riding and, more importantly, your riding psychology.
Third, as long as gear selection is a subjective decision it remains a source of potential error. Further, efficiency and speed are not the same thing. Dragsters are very fast without being efficent. Learn to qualify your statements and not use generaliztions.
And lastly, can you detail for me exactly when using one gear results in a slower time than using multiple gears? Is it after one loop around a velodrome? Is it in the first 3mi of a hill climb? Does it only occur in a varied terrain course? Is it the first time the rider *thinks* they need to shift to ease the demand on their body? Is it when a rider wants a taller gear for easier sections? Does it happen after a rider leaves your "magical cadence for perfect efficency"? Does it only occur in a fictional contest where two idential contetants ride identical bikes (save the gearing) in their own relative perfect efficency around a endless course? Share your wisdom - what's the formula.
And just for the "passion record"... I do not believe single speeds by nature are faster than geared bikes. Nor, do I believe the opposite is always true. |
| "guy's gearie is a Bullit not a hardtail" | Biking Viking
May 20, 2002 12:38 PM | | Please tell me how his "28 lb HT" is a Bullit.
You point is valid, though - "faster" is not equivalent to more "efficient". I'll revise my statement:
"...if you ride faster on the SS than on the geared hardtail, then that is because you don't choose the fastest gear combination when you are on your hardtail."
Feeling better now?
BV |
| But you're missing the point... | Nomo
May 20, 2002 12:41 PM | | if the guy is riding a Bullit now, then he must not be that good of a rider anyway, right?
FS = no skills |
| are you sure about that? | gonzostrike
May 20, 2002 12:47 PM | | I think the better way to state that position is,
always ridden FS = longer learning curve
the smoothest riders are those who spent saddle time on fully-rigid bikes of any type -- BMX, trials, antiquated early MTBs. I have a BMX bike, a singlespeed with Bomber, a hartail with Bomber, and a FS with Bomber. For sure, the hardest one to be smooth on is the BMX, especially with 20" wheels!
I do not think that FS necessarily CREATES bad skills, but it can hide them. |
| So true. | Biking Viking
May 20, 2002 1:09 PM | | I rode rigid bikes since I was five, but started riding them seriously off road in 1992. I put a suspension fork on in 1997, then waited another 5 years to get an FS bike with disk brakes. That ForePlay ride at Rockville was my only first technical ride on FS/Disk Brakes. It was like I didn't need to do any work - the bike just took me safely down all the scary stuff while I sat on it and watched it happen. That's from a guy who gradually lost all his technical riding skills after he moved to Silicon Valley.
BV |
| ha ha!................ | Gimpy
May 20, 2002 12:58 PM | | lol...FYI Weir is a blazing DH racer and oft-victor of the Downieville Downhill....look it up baitmeister. |
| Guilty as charged... | Nomo
May 20, 2002 1:08 PM | | Of course, I don't subscribe to this theory. I just love to see some people get heated over the SS/HT/FS debate. I, personally, think every mt biker should have one of each. |
| The real point... | andy f
May 20, 2002 1:12 PM | | is that many singlespeed riders simply put more effort and intensity into the climbs so they don't have to get off and walk. On a geared bike, you can usually back off and gear down. When the lungs and legs are burning, it's tempting to hold something back. A very disciplined racer-type might maintain the same intensity as a SS rider, but i'll bet most riders don't.
It's about psychology, not physiology or technology. |
| good point. | francis
May 20, 2002 2:11 PM | | "singlespeed riders simply put more effort and intensity into the climbs so they don't have to get off and walk"
That is true. Now here's the secret... if you do that often enough, you will get stronger. It starts out as psychology but then the physiology gets better too.
That's one of the reasons why folks singlespeed. My body was in a rut for 4 years, just not getting any better, just older. 3 months on the singlespeed, and I instantly get stronger.
francis |
| My bad....scanning error | Carl Mega
May 20, 2002 3:23 PM | | I scanned the statement "my bullit or 28 lb HT" but read "my 28lb Bullit". As you are fond of saying..."a user error".
I do feel a little better. But I still think the statement is a "would've, could've but didn't". Here's mine: If you ride faster on your geared hardtail, then it's because you didn't pedal the SS fast enough. Both statements are conjecture.
My main problem with your POV is this: To you, any instance of a rider going faster on a SS than gearie is rider error. My only rebuttal is a quote from the immortal Charles Bukowski - "Yeah, well that counts too." |
| not flame bait... | dante
May 20, 2002 12:50 PM | | and yes, this was all settled, but that was before I rode one and was on the other side of the argument (singlespeeds are dumb side).
FWIW I have *two* bikes, a 35lb bullit and a ~28lb GT hardtail (Rhyno-Lite wheels, RF cranks, blah blah blah).
And I stand by my "forced to ride faster" quote from before, b/c with the harder gearing if I didn't keep up the speed I stopped. Normally I just get lazy and don't hit hills as fast as I could on a geared bike, but I needed to hit them fast on the SS. Overall ability was probably the same. In fact, in a race I'd probably be slower overall on the SS as I wouldn't be as efficient and might get tired out sooner.
I'm not saying that they're better or more efficient or any of that stuff, I just wanted to say that I rode one for the first time on sat and it blew me away.
peace
dante |
| your experience not uncommon | Carl Mega
May 20, 2002 3:30 PM | | Lots of people find that riding single forces them to hammer when they normally would've geared down.
I'm glad you enjoyed the ride...maybe a single will find it's way into your stable someday.
Cheers. |
| I'll go for the bait | Zaphod
May 20, 2002 1:31 PM | | Eh why not.
There's a short 45 minute pavement loop that I do either on my geared (30 gears to be exact) cross bike or my fixed gear track bike.
When I can choose my gears, I spin up a steeper section and go at a solid speed. On the same hill, I have to really put the hammer down to make the climb. So I blast the section much faster.
Even on flatter sections where I'm not gasping for another gear, the track bike is a freakin' rocket ship.
So the efficiency varies but within a certain range of steepness, it's JUST PLAIN FASTER. If I'm keeping the cadence between ~70-150 it's a magic machine.
All flame wars aside, if you put some miles on a SS, you'll gain a cadence range that makes *you*, the rider more efficient and able to handle more varied terrain & cadence. I'm not fast in this respect but that one short hill hurts a bit less after doing it a half dozen times.
-Zaphod |
| Yes - it's pretty much like homeopathy. It works, but... | Biking Viking
May 20, 2002 1:47 PM | | ...there's no science to it. It's all in the head of the user.
Your track bike probably has a lot lower rolling resistance, though.
SS riding has a fitness benefit - no doubt about it. Joe Friel actually describes a workout where you go ride some rolling terrain without shifting. I've tried, but it's hard not to shift when you have all those gears readily available...
BV |
| I don't think that exactly right | Carl Mega
May 20, 2002 3:11 PM | | I'll try to draw an analogy... I'm reminded of how many riders use fixed gear bikes to improve their pedaling. Pedal circles or get bounced. Now, there is no reason that a determined rider cannot learn to ride circles on a regular bike. The feedback from the fixed bike sets the mindset for the rider - "I'm not going to get bounced". I think riding single is the same. Except in this case, it's hammer or walk. The feedback from the equipment is determining how a person reacts to the situation. Not psuedo-science at all.
"...there's no science to it. It's all in the head of the user." That's my favorite quote and very telling of your position and outlook. I wonder how many psychiatrists and psychologists would agree that "All in your mind" equates to "no science". I'll grant you it appears fuzzy but entirely testable and measurable via the scientific method. |
| I don't think that exactly right | keef
May 20, 2002 6:22 PM | | guys guys guys..... all physics and theory and everything aside, the reason dante was kicking ass on the ss was because he finally found the "singlespeed zen" that I'd been ranting about for so long. Plus, me and chongo were breathing down his neck. ;)
Glad you enjoyed the ride dante, I'm happy to offer up a fresh new biking experience. (chongo's on the ss bandwagon now too!) |
| Mmmmmm....Zen | Carl Mega
May 20, 2002 7:37 PM | | What's the sound of one man debating?
The same as pedaling my single.
goodbye and much love to everyone...even BV |
| "breathing down my neck??" | dante
May 21, 2002 5:41 AM | | I thought that that was me gasping for air as I waited for you guys at the top of the hills... :)
dante |
| Have to accept that correction - Let me clarify: | Biking Viking
May 20, 2002 6:57 PM | | Homeopathy, Hi-Fi and other New Age/Alternative Beliefs try to explain the effect scientfically - whereas the entire effect is psychology. Sure it's still science, but another science than the one claimed to cause the desired effect.
That got us back to where I started - I think.
BV |
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