|   My trip to the dark side | Yeti_Rider
Aug 8, 2002 8:01 PM | | One of my buddies got me out on the road bike today for a quick spin of about 45 miles around and through San Diego. I have a road bike, but I usually only ride it about once every month or so since I prefer to ride on the dirt but a nice easy road ride is a good change every once in a while (Plus, the scenery along the coast on these warm summer days isn't too bad either).
I should point out before going any further that I've only had the road bike (Specialized Allez with full Ultegra but with some Ritchey house brand items such as stem, headset, hubs) for a year and a half or so but probably have fewer than 500 miles on it. About 6 months ago I broke a spoke (not sure how, just figured it was from banging my MTB into it while storing it) and only replaced it last month.
The last ride I did was just fine but today we were ascending the first climb up Mt. Soledad Rd. (highest point in San Diego at 700 feet or so) when I heard a noticible PING. I didn't think much of it since we were going so slow but at the top I stopped to look and sure enough, I lost a spoke on the non-drive side. The wheel was badly out of true but neither of us had a spoke wrench with us. My buddy knew of a shop in La Jolla so we just figured we'd finish the climb and take the direct but not nearly as fun descent straight into town and replace the spoke.
We crest the hill, stop to admire the view for a minute becuase you can see so darn far in all directions and went on our way down. About 100 feet into the descent I heard another PING. I thought it might have been a rock but I took it real easy on the downhill for two reasons. One, I opened up the brakes to allow clearance for the out of true rim and Two, I was afraid I lost another spoke. Sure enough, upon inspection another spoke had let go.
We get to the shop and they have the spokes I need. A buck and a half for two, no biggie. I ask to borrow a spoke wrench and they wouldn't loand me one even if I did the repair right outside their shop! I had to buy one (it was only 5 bucks so not a big deal but WTF?) just to get the repair done. Remind me not to shop at California Cyclery in La Jolla ever!
We get the repair done and head out on our way. We're riding past Sea World when PING, not again (I believe the exact wording might have been a bit more severe than that) but I toasted another one. My buddy knows of another shop in Ocean Beach so we head over there just minutes before closing to buy yet another spoke. Unfortunately he only has Silver (the rest were black) but at least he has one so I can get home. I buy it and we start putting it in. While we're truing the wheel up, PING. Another one lets go. Fortunately, even though teh shop is closed, he sells me another one (remind me to go back there again). We replace it and get on our way.
For the remainder of the ride (about 15 miles) I didn't hear the dreaded PING but I'm heading out to get the entire wheel rebuilt before I ride on it again. All spokes broke at the bend and all were on the non-drive side. Furthermore, all hte broken ones were with the spoke entering the hub flange from the inside and exiting so the bend was on the outside of hte flange. Not sure why that would matter but that's the only similiarity between any of the breaks.
I don't know if the problem is that it was a sh!tty machine built wheel or bad spokes but something wasn't right. I do remember after the first or second ride a spoke had loosened up so it was finger loose. I went through at that time and tensioned every spoke (I've done this many times on MTB wheels that I've built so I don't think I messed it up) so I'm leaning towards bad spokes. I'll simply eliminate the problem and get new DT or Wheelsmith spokes thrown on so I know they're quality.
Although it was frustrating, it got a bit humorous after a while. The whole appeal of road riding is that it's pretty maintenence free once everyting is dialed in compared to MTB-ing yet I spent more time fixing the road bike on this ride than on any ride I've done in the past 6 months on the trail.
Oh well. we made it back without too much hassle and didn't get hit by any cars so it was still a success!
Michael |
| Interesting. My take is, the spoke were too tight. | Bikebreath
Aug 9, 2002 5:24 AM | | Over tightened spokes have too much tension on them and subjects them to breaking.
Bb, [ will submit to whipping if incorrect. ] |
| Please pluralizes "spoke" /\ /\ /\ by adding and "S". | Bikebreath
Aug 9, 2002 5:28 AM | | Thank You.
Bb |
| The wheel from hell. | SunDog
Aug 9, 2002 6:54 AM | | Sounds like a wheel built with the wrong (short) spoke legnth.
I bought a used bike, rear wheel was 517/XTR/DT 14/15 DB spokes, sweet looking wheel. I encountered the dreaded "ping" on deep desert penetration. I carry spare spokes on those types of rides. As I laced the spoke I discovered the DT's were short and over tensioned. Two pings later and I made it back to my car. Ordered some 14 G Wheelsmiths in the correct legnth and rebuilt.
Definately rebuild with correct spoke legnth. |
| probably not to short or to tight | Seb
Aug 9, 2002 7:46 AM | | That story sounds a clasic example of spoke fatigue in undertesnioned spokes. Spoke fatigue is caused by the wheel rolling along, slackeniong the bottom spokes as it goes around, and then the spokes snapping taught again as the wheel rolls off them. Loose spokes go completely slack and actually flex at the elbow; adiquitely tight spokes do not experience this flex. I don't think over tightened spokes would behave as described, breaking at the elbo, one at a time, while riding, but loose spokes WILL behave that way.
The all the spokes that broke were the "heads in" ones is that the "heads out" ones don't get flexed as much during building, and come "stock" in a shape that matches thier final position. Normally the "heads in" ones should be bent by the builder to a propper postion, resting against the flange. If they aren't, the spriong back to the "stock" shape every time they go slack (as described above) and fatigue even faster.
So my verdict is- crappy build, with low tension and impropper spoke setting. How a nice bike with full Ultegra and Ritchey ended up with such a poor wheelbuild would be an intersting tale... |
| probably not to short or to tight | Yeti_Rider
Aug 9, 2002 8:01 AM | | That's what we figured. My buddy used to own a shop and I've dabbled in the wheelbuilding art a time or two so together we figure that when the wheel was new it wasn't tensioned correctly which then sealed the fate of the spokes forever.
I know the spokes are the right length and my buddy thought by feel (I know, it's not scientific) that the spokes were properly tensioned but I had tightend them all up after the second or third ride so that may have given them the chance to fatigue.
I'm cutting the spokes off both wheels in the next couple of weeks nad getting them rebuilt. No messing around any more. Until then, I've got a sweet set of Spinergy's on loan!
Michael |
| Nice analysis. Thanks. | SunDog
Aug 9, 2002 9:27 AM | | |
| That bites... | Timmy
Aug 9, 2002 9:04 AM | | I'm dealing with a similar issue albeit not as extreme.
A poorly built wheel on my IF gets trued on a regular basis. If I abused it it would be one thing, but this is on my commuter. Worst it sees is the fire road in penasquitos and an occasional trip to martha's grove.
My goal is to make it last out the season and then have the whole set rebuilt by someone I trust this winter. Obviously I already know what I want for Xmas.
Good luck on the re-builds.
Tim |
| Not as tough a fix | Seb
Aug 10, 2002 11:21 AM | | Wheels often also go out of true as a result of low tension, because the "slack" effect I mentioned allows the nipple to bounce around once per revolution and eventually get a bit looser. Hard use can put bigger loads on the wheels, which is more likely to cause slack spokes, but a good wheel should stand up to that unless the rim is actually damaged.
If the problem is just that the wheel needs frequernt truing, you can fix it yourself by cranking up the tension on all the spokes by 1/4 or 1/2 turn- at least 1/2 for the drive side rear, to get the left side tension up while preserving the dish. I've had wheels that repeatedly went out of true because the spokes were a bit to slack, and the shop never did this, just kept truing the wheel every month or so... on thier dime, since they were covered on warranty! After upping the tension myself, they were much more durable.
Be sure to stress relive the wheel, as the spokes are settling in at a higher resting tension. It will probably need truing after you do this- if you can't do that yourself, you've at least helped ensure the shop's work won't go to waste. |
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