|   passion of another sort - this is appalling (OT) | mtbfreak9er
Oct 7, 2002 5:51 AM | | a colleague of mine just forwarded this to me. i find it absolutely revolting that someone would even think to market a "toy" like this:
http://www3.jcpenney.com/jcp/Products.asp?GrpTyp=PRD&ItemID=05b5baa&RefPa
if you would like to contact JC Penny in regard to this matter you can do so here:
http://www.jcpenneyeservices.com/csrv/emailus.asp
i realize that this is completely non-mtb but i thought it was important enough to share with the whole class, so to speak.
rt
mtb reference: i rode new trails in Tallahassee, FL on sat. it is hotter than he// in Fla in Oct & fire ants suck. but the trail was fast & fun. |
| appalling | Hjalti
Oct 7, 2002 6:12 AM | | You're right. What were they thinking when they designed a forward CP with so little overhead protection? Where are the sandbags? I sure hope JC Penny's sells a combat engineer set to go in and make that CP safe for GI Joe.
H |
| Doubles as a dollhouse | cleatgrrl
Oct 7, 2002 6:31 AM | | You are funny. Doesn't it sort of look like a recycled dollhouse? Use your imagination! |
| ummm.....they've been selling 'toys' like that for decades | g.i. joe
Oct 7, 2002 6:16 AM | | . |
| Let me see.....I had a G.I. Joe in 1969.................. | jeff kammerer
Oct 7, 2002 11:55 AM | | and it didn't warp my mind tooooo much, but I do ride Mt. Bikes and teach 2nd grade.......Oh I see.... it leads to self torture! |
| Actually, I disagree...... | badfish
Oct 7, 2002 6:19 AM | | .....I think that's a great toy. But then again, who am I to have an opinion like that, right? I mean, I've only served in the military for 10 years, right? I have two children. My son is almost four years old and my daughter is less than a year. I think I'll buy that for my son for christmas. Why in the world do you think it's revolting? Do you not enjoy the same "Freedom of speech" that I do? Why do you think America is a free country?
Freedom isn't free. Wake up. I'm leaving tommorrow for Korea for a year, during which time I won't be able to see my wife or my kids. Is that appaling?
Remember, if it weren't for the "command posts" in the past, we might just all be walking around in jack boots, hieling some idiot dictator with a little moustache. That's appalling.
Bottom line, if you don't like the toy, don't buy it. The last thing I need when visiting a mountain biking site is a knucklehead spouting leftist agendas and ideologies. I wanted to read about bikes. I wanted to see cool pictures of rides. Instead, here I am, wasting time on a reply that doesn't really even warrant a second thought.
Thanks. |
| We may not be saluting a dictator... | DeRanger
Oct 7, 2002 6:30 AM | | ...but then again, a bloodless coup that sets aside both the law of the land and the will of the people is just as bad.
Badfish, thank you for standing on the walls and defending the rights of *rt* and I to state our belief that toys based on war beget a culture of violence that serves no one. Please be safe in your assignment - and if you get a chance to do any riding on your lieu days, we'll look forward to your photos.
DeR (...a former jack-booted thug in federal service...) |
| Ok.... | badfish
Oct 7, 2002 12:43 PM | | .....I can respect your opinion and thank you for your kind thoughts.
badfish
(you betchyer a** I'll be riding over there!) |
| Proud of you | cleatgrrl
Oct 7, 2002 6:37 AM | | We're all very proud of our women in uniform. I hope you're bringing your mountain bike to Korea so you can do some of the great riding there, and shoot us back some photos. I've seen great shots of rides you can do right near Seoul.
The best thing about this site is contributions from people like yourself who go and ride in exotic places. Please, if I can make one suggestion: less reactionary ranting, more contributing to the community. Like you said, we log on here "to read about bikes. I wanted to see cool pictures of rides." What you give is what you get.
Oh, and join AUSA! |
| Thanks, and..... | badfish
Oct 7, 2002 12:40 PM | | ....I will be certain to send photos of my riding experiences once I'm on the ground with my gear. My Yeti is in a box somewhere right now (sadness) on it's way over there. I won't actually be able to lay my hands on it until the end of October. Bleh!
One other thing....I'm not a "woman" in uniform. I'm a man. Was that a typo, or am I just a little slow on the uptake? |
| bike picture. | mtbfreak9er
Oct 7, 2002 7:15 AM | | .jpg)
better?
be safe in your travels and know that i have the utmost respect for what you do.
rt - will stand by my "leftist agendas and ideologies" |
| Cool..... | badfish
Oct 7, 2002 12:50 PM | | ...thanks for the pic, thanks for the kind thought.
Keep in mind that your opinions are just that....YOURS! I'm not attempting change them or anything. If anything, I can respect them. I mean, after all, I'm willing to die for your right to have your own thoughts. |
| Actually, I disagree...... | Locoman
Oct 7, 2002 8:08 AM | | Knucklehead spouting leftist agendas and ideologies?
I see this toy as trivializing the destruction of a home and family. If you want to teach your kids that that's fun and play -go ahead.
Freedom of speech doesn't mean that a company should sell products that are in bad taste. Would the "happy 'Nazi' party tea set" be a good thing to sell? Sure they can sell it, but should they?
Anyways..Given your rhetoric, I'm glad you're at the receiving end of the chain of command instead of on top. |
| Lacking a sense of proportion, aren't we? | Ken in KC
Oct 7, 2002 12:30 PM | | Comparing killing 6 million Jews vs. a G.I. Joe toy set is kind of a stretch, isn't it?
This is actually analogous to freedom of speech. If something that someone says on the radio offends you (Rush, Howard, whatever), then you have the option to turn off the radio or turn the channel.
If a G.I. Joe TOY offends you and your paper thin skin, then you have the option to not buy it. If enough people feel the same way you do, then the toy will leave the market and become a collectors item at a flea market in 10 years.
I suspect, however, that most people have the common sense to realize that it is, after all a toy.
BTW: There are plenty of companies that sell products that are in bad taste: The Hello Kitty vibrator may be offensive to some, while any product endorsed by Martha Stewart may be offensive to others. Either way, they have just as much right to market their products as anyone else.
Perhaps the government should pass another law to "protect" us from ourselves? The G.I. Joe Act of 2002 could be written in to the Constitution based on your desire to not promote the desctruction of home and family.
Isn't it obvious to you what is going on? Mattel is promoting G.I. Joe because they are also sub-contracters for parts of the M-16. Taking their cue from the tabaco industry, they are simply trying to grow their market share early to ensure that they continue to have customers.
Please don't try to protect me from big business. Rather, try to protect me from the civilian government and taxes. Paying taxes for pork belly, now that concerns me more than a toy. Long live welfare!!
Ken |
| Ummm....how can I say this? | badfish
Oct 7, 2002 12:36 PM | | Well put. Where you at in KC, Ken? I'm in Smithville as I type this. (North side of town)
-Sean |
| Lenexa... | Ken in KC
Oct 7, 2002 12:40 PM | | when are you leaving for Korea and where? I spent a year in Osan. It was different and fun, for about 6 months. 4th of July and Christmas was tough for me when I was there.
If you are interested, there is a ride tomorrow afternoon. It will be a great time. There are typically 40-60 people who show up, so it's easy to find a group to ride with.
There is also a group going down to Berryman this weekend. It will also be a great time. you're more than welcome to join us.
Ken |
| Ken.... | badfish
Oct 7, 2002 12:47 PM | | ...I wish I could take you up on your offer. Unfortunately, I must decline for two reasons.
1. My bike is in a crate on it's way to Korea as we speak.
2. (More importantly) I'm leaving from KCI tomorrow afternoon.
Tell you what, though....
I'll be back in about 6 months on leave. Hook up for a ride then?
-Sean |
| "Lacking a sense of proportion" -Yes, I'd say you are.. | Locoman
Oct 8, 2002 6:51 AM | | Man, I make a point and you start off with that "Perhaps the government should pass another law to "protect" us from ourselves" stuff and changing the Constitution -Oh boy! Talk about lacking a sense of proportion!
You just hunker down in that backyard bunker of yours and keep that tax man away! :-) |
| Heh. | badfish
Oct 7, 2002 12:33 PM | | Yeah. I'm on the receiving end of the chain of command. You're a jackass, Locoman. I said that I've been in ten years....not two.
(BTW- I buy my son every single gun or knife toy I can find. Hope he never plays with your kids....he doesn't like whiners.) |
| My future children are shaking in their future boots! | Locoman
Oct 8, 2002 6:57 AM | | Interesting how points that differ from your own constitute 'whining'. Bet you think there's a lot of whining out there, eh?
Where does that "ten years....not two" come from?... Whatever.
And spend away my friend. Helps the economy. |
| I guess............. | Mike T.
Oct 7, 2002 6:20 AM | | ....it goes along with, and is not much different from, toy guns and violent video games, tv shows and movies. Why can't kids be channeled into enjoying nature, helping less fortunate animals and volunteering to aid others? We are what we make it eh.
"Imagine" |
| "World Peace Keeper..." | DeRanger
Oct 7, 2002 6:22 AM | | "...Battle Station"?!?
Orwell was a prophet.
DeR (...anyone else see "No Man's Land"?...) |
| hmmm.... | Stick
Oct 7, 2002 6:30 AM | | Have to agree w/ Hjalti. Well, not really. GI Joe doesn't really need more overhead protection since it is, after all, just a toy. And nothing new, really. GI Joe has been around for what? 30 yrs? I'm not sure why you find it so appalling. Kids have played w/ toy soldiers for years. Should they? Who knows? I'm sure some psycologists would say "No! It encourages violent behavior!" and just as many would argue the opposite. "Better to battle it out with little palstic men than to beat each other up."
*shrug* I played with little plastic army men, GI Joes, and all the other things boys typically play with. Hell, I had a whole arsenal of toy guns that shot everything from pingpong balls to rubber darts to BB's and pellets. I'm not a violent person, never owned a firearm, and don't think those toys had any effect whatsoever on who I am or how I think today.
Do I think it's right to encourage kids to hate? Absolutely not. But I don't think the 'Forward command center' does that. It's not as if it comes with Taliban POW's or something or anti-Islam propaganda... |
| I'm mostly in agreement with you | kristian
Oct 7, 2002 7:38 AM | | I grew up playing first with Star Wars and then with G.I. Joes and other "war oriented" toys and somehow still ended up a non-violent liberal. On the other hand, I do sometimes wonder if people like you and I are exceptions to the norm (especially when I see polls saying that 60 some percent of Americans are gung-ho about a war with Iraq...) |
| I also grew up with Star Wars..... | crashnburn
Oct 7, 2002 8:52 AM | | and such. The kids and I in the neighborhood "shot" each other all the time. My father also had me pulling the trigger on a gun before I could walk. He thought nothing of letting my friends and I go into the woods to "plink" around on some old cans and such with rifles and pistles. I own guns today and am proud of it. I don't feel a need to go out and blow people away because of the "evil" toys I played with as a kid. The reason I don't is because my parents did a good (and very!! difficult) job in raiseing me with morals.
Long story short, it ain't the toys folks. |
| Bring back lawn darts!!!!(nm) | Rasputin
Oct 7, 2002 6:34 AM | | |
| I have to agree with you... | Allroy
Oct 7, 2002 6:58 AM | | fire ants SUCK! |
| lol! | mtbfreak9er
Oct 7, 2002 7:30 AM | | they do, indeed. :-)
rt |
| re: passion of another sort - this is appalling (OT) | mudhoney
Oct 7, 2002 7:02 AM | | humm...as you can see (by the "for ages 5 and up) the companies/gov plan to continue the war on terrorism for a long time. similar to hitler youth.... |
| oh, bull$&^*! | Stick
Oct 7, 2002 7:14 AM | | talk about reading too much into something! The only way a 5 yr old kid would know anything about the 'War on Terrorism' is if his parents or teachers told him about it or if he watches TV unsupervised and SOMEHOW preferred CNN to Nickelodian or Cartoon Network. And the little 4 y.o. in my livingroom seems perfectly content watching Nick Jr. |
| Stick, I think that stuff dripping off the post was sarcasm nm | Ken in KC
Oct 7, 2002 12:13 PM | | nm |
| *rt*, there is absolutely nothing wrong... | JoeAS-R
Oct 7, 2002 7:17 AM | | ...with little boys playing with army toys. I, along with all of my buddies grew up playing army games and think it is healthy for all boys to do the same. I can already see it, your son (or future son) chasing butterflies or hopefully riding bikes. |
| My son has some MicroMachines war-zone setups... | Biking Viking
Oct 7, 2002 8:19 AM | | ...that he's played with for years. They contain bridges, and houses that mechanically blow up, plus mineature soldiers and vehicles.
My mother-in-law once saw him playing with this and complained: "Those toys are evil, I don't want you to play with them." Erik, 5 years old, replied calmly: "Then your husband has worked with evil all his life".
My father-in-law retired five years ago after a long, successful carreer in the Norwegian Army.
BV |
| Bababooey | LITESPD
Oct 7, 2002 9:01 AM | | I allow my 6 year old to listen and watch Howard Stern on !E.
Does this make me wrong, this may be your opinion.
I am also in the military and I like to practice my freedoms.
I don't endure long seperations from my family and friends
for nothing. |
| Stiring the pot | Rascal
Oct 7, 2002 9:03 AM | | Came across this just the other day and thought it strangely appropriate for this thread.
Some people will love what it has to say, and I am sure some will hate it and be offended. That to me is what makes this country great. So before I get on with the rest of this post I would just like to add my own annotate before I quote Ted's rantings below.
To me the toughest part of being an American is defending someone else's right to say or do something that you don't agree with.
I try to keep that thought in mind everyday, that to me is the very essence of America.
Anyway.. Here is the gospel according to Ted, hope you enjoy...
>Written by Ted Nugent, the rock singer and hunter/naturalists, upon
>hearing that California Senators B. Boxer and D. Feinstein denounced
>him for being a gun owner" and a "Rock Star". This was his response
>after telling the senators about his past contributions to
>children's charities and scholarship foundations which have totaled
>more than $13.7 million in the last 5 years!!
I'm a Bad American-this pretty much sums it up for me. I like big
trucks, big boats, big houses, and naturally, pretty women.
I believe the money I make belongs to me and my family, not some
midlevel governmental functionary with a bad comb-over who wants
to give it away to crack addicts squirting out babies.
I don't care about appearing compassionate.
I think playing with toy guns doesn't make you a killer. I believe
ignoring your kids and giving them Prozac might.
I think I'm doing better than the homeless.
I don't think being a minority makes you noble or victimized. I
have the right not to be tolerant of others because they are
different, weird or make me mad. This is my life to live, and not
necessarily up to others expectations. I know what SEX is and
there are not varying degrees of it.
I don't celebrate Kwanzaa. But if you want to that's fine; I just
don't feel like everyone else should have to.
I believe that if you are selling me a Dairy Queen shake, a pack
of cigarettes, or hotel room you do it in English. As of matter
of fact, if you are an American citizen you should speak English.
My uncles and forefathers shouldn't have had to die in vain so
you can leave the countries you were born in to come disrespect
ours, and make us bend to your will. Get over it.
I think the cops have every right to shoot your sorry butt if
you're running from them after they tell you to stop. If you
can't understand the word 'freeze' or 'stop' in English, see the
previous line. I don't use the excuse "it's for the children" as
a shield for unpopular opinions or actions.
I know how to count votes and I feel much safer letting a machine
with no political affiliation do a recount when needed. I know
what the definition of lying is, and it isn't based on the word
"is"-ever.
I don't think just because you were not born in this country, you
qualify for any special loan programs, gov't sponsored bank
loans, etc., so you can open a hotel, 7-Eleven, trinket shop, or
any thing else, while the indigenous peoples can't get past a
high school education because they can't afford it.
I didn't take the initiative in inventing the Internet. I thought
the Taco Bell dog was funny.
I want them to bring back safe and sane fireworks.
I believe no one ever died because of something Ozzy Osbourne,
Ice-T or Marilyn Manson sang, but that doesn't mean I want to
listen to that crap from someone else's car when I'm stopped at a
red light. But I respect your right to.
I think that being a student doesn't give you any more
enlightenment than working at Blockbuster or Jack In The Box.
I don't want to eat or drink anything with the words light, lite
or fat-free on the package.
Our soldiers did not go to some foreign country and risk their
lives in vain and defend our Constitution so that decades later
you can tell me it's a living document ever changing and is open
to interpretation. The guys who wrote it were light years ahead
of anyone today, and they meant what they said - now leave the
document alone, or there's going to be trouble.
I don't hate the rich. I help the poor. I know wrestling is fake.
I've never owned, or was a slave, and a large percentage of our
forefathers weren't wealthy enough to own one either. Please stop
blaming me because some prior white people were idiots - and
remember, tons of white, Indian, Chinese, and other races have
been enslaved too - it was wrong for every one of them.
I believe a self-righteous liberal Democrat with a cause is more
dangerous than a Hell's Angel with an attitude.
I want to know exactly which church is it where the "Reverend"
Jessie Jackson preaches; and, what exactly is his job function. I
own a gun, you can own a gun, and any red blooded American should
be allowed to own a gun, but if you use it in a crime, then you
will serve the time.
I think Bill Gates has every right to keep every penny he made and
continue to make more. If it makes you mad, then invent the next
operating system that's better and put your name on the building.
Ask your buddy that invented the Internet to help you.
I don't believe in hate crime legislation. Even suggesting it
makes me mad.
You're telling me that someone who is a minority,gay, disabled,
another nationality, or otherwise different from the mainstream
of this country has more value as a human being than I do as a
white male. If someone kills anyone, I'd say that it's a hate
crime. We don't need more laws! Let's enforce the ones we already
have.
I think turkey bacon, turkey beef, turkey fake anything sucks. I
believe that it doesn't take a village to raise a child-it takes
a parent with the guts to stand up to the kid and spank his butt
and say "NO!" when it's necessary to do so. I'll admit that the
only movie that ever made me cry was Ole Yeller. I didn't realize
Dr. Seuss was a genius until I had a kid.
I will not be frowned upon or be looked down upon or be made to
keep silent because I have these beliefs and opinions. I thought
this country allowed me that right. I will not conform or
compromise just to keep from hurting somebody's feelings. I'm
neither angry nor disenfranchised, no matter how desperately the
mainstream media would like the world to believe otherwise.
Yes, I guess by some people's definition, I may be a bad American.
But that's tough.
Ted Nugent |
| 'Cept... | Ed H.
Oct 7, 2002 9:13 AM | | Except he didn't write it. Neither did George Carlin.
http://www.snopes.com/language/document/carlin.htm |
| Eitherway, I think it reflects.... | crashnburn
Oct 7, 2002 9:55 AM | | the opinion of a great many (if not a vast majority) of Americans. I know it refects my opinion. Good job to the Author.
BTW, I've read a few articles about T.N. catching alot of flack for going to his home every year to bow hunt. I hope he keeps it up. |
| So you think that... | Biking Viking
Oct 7, 2002 10:03 AM | | ...being a student doesn't give you any more enlightenment than working at Blockbuster or Jack In The Box.
Good for you.
BV |
| Cooorrrrrreeeeect . but actually being .. | "studious" DOES!
Oct 7, 2002 10:45 AM | | |
| That's right...... | crashnburn
Oct 7, 2002 10:50 AM | | Meet many people who I feel were some of the brightest people I've ever meet that never spent a day in college. Having a piece of paper doesn't make one "enlighten" or smarter than others. Some Professors at my old college were some of the biggist idiots I've ever meet. |
| Does it occur to you that if nobody went to college... | Biking Viking
Oct 7, 2002 11:08 AM | | ...we would not be having this electronic conversation? I am amazed that you actually believe that the recent decades' advances in computer technology, medecine & bio tech would have happened even if the people behind it went to work for Jack in the Box?
"my old college" - makes me believe you did go to one instead of working at Blockbusters. Talking about proving your own point.
BV |
| Education is good | Zaphod
Oct 7, 2002 12:27 PM | | Not slamming those that choose to skip college and do something different. There are many ways to educate and enlighten. If I could redo my world, I'd have taken a few years off prior to going to college. And yes I consider it a worthwhile endeavour. But my head was not in the game at that point. But that's more of a personal anecdote and not central to my point really.
My point is that learning is a really important thing to pursue for one's entire life. The means may be college, a mentor, personal searching, books, hands on experience, interaction with people... whatever, but don't sit on your a$$ and do nothing. I think lackluster, I mean blockbuster employees that are there for the long term aren't learning much.
RE the 'Nuge, he's funny "Gotta kill it before you grill it", but I disagree with his world and that's OK. Then again, there are fruitarians who think I'm torturing my food when I throw it in the wok, alas... all kinds.
"Always walk on the sidewalk, never trod on the grass." - Circle Jerks
-Zaphod |
| I don't disagree...... | crashnburn
Oct 7, 2002 12:42 PM | | But being smart does not make one "enlightened". Hitler was a damn genuis, but didn't make him enlightened.
Yes I did go to college. My degree is in Electrical Engineering. But one doesn't need to go to college to get an education. Look at Tom Edison. If I remeber my history, he never went to college, yet look at his accomplishments. What about Bill Gates?? Walt Disney?? etc... How many high school students graduate in America and still can't do simple math without a calculator?? A friend at work was telling me of a guy who used to work there. Scored all A's in college and all that, but couldn't design a simple building to save his soul. He was let go. It also never ceases to amaze me how people with college degrees, such as medical doctors, will support MADD (Mothers against Drunk Drivers) about punishing the driver, but yet want to ban guns instead of the criminals.
I use to be an electrician. Let me tell ya, there's some mighty smart people out there that are as good as any consulting engineer would ever be. Mostly because they know stuff works. My boss told me one of the reasons he hired me was because I had some construction background and know how things work.
I could go on, but I think you get my point. I said it before and I'll say it again. Have a piece of paper doesn't make one "enlightened" or "educated". |
| World's full of excellent autodidacts, and... | Biking Viking
Oct 7, 2002 1:44 PM | | ...then there countless examples of the opposite - people who studied until they were purple and turned out pretty much useless. That's not the point here though.
It's not about enlightenment through "being smart" or "having a paper" - it is about the enligthenment acheived by being a student vs. cooking hamburgers or renting out videos. I think on average, the students come out better than fastfood workers, regardless of what the fabricated Ted Nugent piece says.
I have a feeling that you agree with me on that...
BV |
| It depends..... | crashnburn
Oct 7, 2002 2:28 PM | | if you take two high school students and sent one straight to college and the other to Block busters, and they both stayed there for 4 yrs., then I would say yes. The college student, provided she works hard and graduates, will be more enlightened than the guy at blockbusters. But, what if the blockbuster guy goes into the military instead while the other remains a student? I always felt that my time in the Navy always gave me an unique(spelling???) view of the world. So I would say the the kid in the military would be the more enlightened one at the end of four yrs. One doesn't get much exposer to the world in classroom.....or Blockbusters.
What it mainly boils down to is this...in order for one to be enlightened, one needs to live and understand life. The problem with alot of college students that I saw most of the time is that A) they didn't really know what they wanted and thus kinda drifted around wasting their parents money while partying and/or B)thought they were better than others because they were in college. This was the group straight out of high school. The ones that had already been out in the real world knew what they wanted and how the world works. They were "enlightened" enough to know what college really ment and what life was really like. Now, you might say that college prepares them for the real world. It really doesn't. The best way I can put this is that you can tell someone what bootcamp is like, but untill they go through it themself, they can never really understand it. This is what enlightenment is. |
| The whole military thing takes the discussion way beyond... | Biking Viking
Oct 7, 2002 2:47 PM | | ...the original student vs. burger flipping/video rental discussion though.
I'm totally with you on the boot camp thing. I've been there myself and I am an EE, just like you.
Conclusion: I agree with you, you agree with me - but you don't agree with the false Ted Nugent piece unless one makes some serious additions to it.
That was my point.
BV |
| what's lost in all this... | tweezle
Oct 7, 2002 11:18 AM | | i is that *rt* has some very nice legs. |
| |
