|   Man and bike vs. Plastic bag | Steve-O
Oct 8, 2002 5:09 AM | | On my ride Friday...
One plastic grocery bag from local food emporium $.001
One Shimano XT derailleur $40.00
One SRAM PC89R Chain $25.00
First time riding a singlespeed since my grade school Huffy... PRICELESS
Steve-O (amazed at the damage some trail litter can do to a derailleur) |
| Just bend it back. | Bikebreath
Oct 8, 2002 5:33 AM | | Hopefully you're over the initial anger and that "joke" will be funny.
Sorry, buddy.
Bb, [ and that's the only way I'll ever single speed. ] |
| Good as new! | Steve-O
Oct 8, 2002 5:43 AM | | At least the derailleur hanger that is...
Steve-O (glad the LBS has one of these things)
 |
| Funny you should mention that. | Bikebreath
Oct 8, 2002 6:17 AM | | I know your bike must be steel or you'd be swearin'.
I took my STEEL hardtail to the LBS just last night for some "chiropractic" adjustment with that very tool. Mine was about 3" off, [ and that was after some trail side work ]. I've been putting that off and putting up with some odd shifting since spring. It got me thinking how much my fully, with the aluminum rear end, might be off. I wouldn't bend it, but I'm just curious if it's off or not.
Bb, [ putting off joining the Society Of Procrastinators. ] |
| I've used that tool on a few aluminum hangers | radair
Oct 8, 2002 8:52 AM | | and never had a problem breaking one. Be gentle and don't over tweak it so you don't have to bend it back the other way.
That Park tool is well worth the $50 they get for it. |
| Conversation piece? | DeRanger
Oct 8, 2002 6:24 AM | | Most people break their ders on something far more mundane, like a stick or a rock or something.
I don't remember where I read it, but someone wrote a funny rant questioning why the most intricate and vulnerable part of the bike is also the part most exposed to ground hazards.
DeR (...hmmm, sounds like a good excuse to upgrade to '03 XTR...) |
| We can put a man on the moon but... | Steve-O
Oct 8, 2002 6:35 AM | | We can't design something better then the derailleur, chain, and gears for a bicycle transmission system. This fact alway seemed to blow me away...
Steve-O (Time to read up on the Rolhoff Speed Hubs :-) |
| How much better does it need to be? | fonseca
Oct 8, 2002 8:10 AM | | A biking friend of mine is always trying to come up with something to replace the chain and derailleurs. His project right now is an electronic shifting system with a capacitor. I think the fact that derailleurs have been in use for a century says something about their effectiveness at the pretty simple task to which they are assigned.
There are internal hubs, shaft drives and belt drives available. Then there's shimano airlines. Don't know if there's such a thing as hydraulic shifting or if it's even feasible. The Rohloff hubs are nice, and probably the best option if you break derailleurs regularly, but because of their complexity it would be a nightmare to rebuild, Rohloff probably doesn't even want you opening them up(I'm guessing). From what I have read they only require an oil change once a year, and the few people I have met that use one absolutely love it.
Yeah, you have to lube the chain, keep your housing and cables clean, but whenever I give my halfpipe a big twist and go from a small cog to the largest right before a steep hill, I always think about how well it works. Something about the simplicity of it appeals to me, and the obvious dichotomy: I'm using this archaic shifting system on my complex full suspension bike with "space-age" materials; titanium, carbon fiber, forged, cnc-ed, butted, anodized, teflon-impregnated aluminum, etc etc. Seems like we've pushed the materials a long ways, but a bike still looks and works pretty much like it always has. I like that. Mabye it's reassuring somehow.
Phew! I just got out of class so my brain is still working. Time to go for a ride.
Fons |
| As long as there are issues... | Steve-O
Oct 8, 2002 8:34 AM | | As long as there are some of the very issues that you mention in your post people will continue to try and improve on lowly derailleur.
I'll be the first to admit that the system is highly efficient and works well; but there are issues with the current bicycle drivetrain...
- Shifting under load
- Chain tension
- worn or dirty cable housings
- chain requires lubrication
- susceptible to rocks, twigs, (plastic bags)
You know as well as I that belt drives, shaft drives, and even the revered Speed Hub still have some issues; however, I think they are a step in the right direction. Will they beat out the derailleur? Only time will tell.... |
| Belts instead of chains? | Jisch
Oct 8, 2002 9:38 AM | | I don't understand why no one is developing a belt drive system instead of chain. It seems that it would be lighter and less prone to wear (both on the chains and the rings/cassettes). Its been done successfully on road motorcycles. I guess motorcycles don't actually shift the chain on the cassette like a bike does, but still. You can bet that if they put them on Harleys that the chance of them failing is slim. I suppose there is no field repair of a belt if it breaks.
It would be a complete redesign, especially from the ring/cassette perspective. I guess such a wide redesign like this would really turn the bike world on its head.
John |
| Here you go... | Steve-O
Oct 8, 2002 9:47 AM | | Jericho at last year's Interbike. I know friction is the obstacle on belt drives (a human being is a pretty crappy engine compared to a Harley). I always envisioned a CVT arrangement with an snowmobile clutch style transmission. Unfortunately no big mfrs have stepped up to the plate (probably due to the friction issue).
Steve-O (Not a bicycle engineer) |
| SS? | Jisch
Oct 8, 2002 10:06 AM | | Is that bike a single speed or is there an internal shifting mechanism? Moving that belt around on a cassette type deal would be difficult. Can imagine the friction could be tough - there's a lot of contact area between the belt and the cog.
I'm surprised there's not some sort of ramps built around the crank side to keep the belt on the teeth. I'm also surprised the belt needs to be that wide, seems like it could be 1/4" wide or something. The Harley belts have kevlar strands in them. A lot more power there.
Thanks for the pics... wasn't aware someone actually tried it.
John |
| SS - Yep! (nm) | Steve-O
Oct 8, 2002 10:22 AM | | nm |
| Belts, chains... | DeRanger
Oct 8, 2002 10:03 AM | | ...nylon straps, silk scarves - it's all good.
Whoops - got a little off-topic there.
Why bother with belts? What about shafts and worm gears? With carbon and titanium, you could make them very light and strong. No stretch, no breakage - at least not the kind that affects chains or belts.
DeR (...build the better mousetrap, they say...) |
| Believe me... | Steve-O
Oct 8, 2002 10:10 AM | | Believe me there are people out there trying!
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| Friction, friction friction. | Brandon
Oct 8, 2002 10:40 AM | | It's really hard to beat a roller chain in terms of efficiency. Bevel gears (as used in shaft drives), Planetary gears (in internal hubs) and Belts all have higher energy losses than a simple roller chain on cog system. |
| Hey Steve-O, now what might ya be doin with whats left? | BrokenBones?
Oct 8, 2002 6:38 AM | | Do ya think that plate with your B-screw adj would be the same as an XTR? Perhaps we could work some kind of trade. That little plate would make a complete extra rear der. Might be kinda handy to have layin around.
Hows the little one doin? Sleeping throught the night? I still remember the first time. We woke up and it was weird neither of us was up during the night.
Rob(Sifting through spare parts and such to see what I have)
PS Yes the Trek road bike has flames. |
| E-mail me... | Steve-O
Oct 8, 2002 7:11 AM | | I'm not sure if it's the same as XTR but your welcome to it if you want. The incredible torque generated by my legs (insert laughter here) actually pushed the plate past the stopper on this derailleur so it's hard to tell if the plate is straight (see pict)...
Drop me an e-mail - STEVENHAMMOND2atNETSCAPEdotNET and I'll mail it off to you...
Steve-O (Loves the flames on the Trek!) |
| I believe it! | Ska!
Oct 8, 2002 8:28 AM | | I was totally taken out by a bag of chips on the trail once.
Riding....riding....riding...!!BAM!! Just like that.
Posted about it I think.
Bummer about the der. Steve-O.
Ska! |
| I feel for ya. | tlg
Oct 9, 2002 3:56 AM | | Just wacked my derailleur on a rock this weekend. Frustrating but I'd feel much worse if it was due to trash! I Spent 1/2 hr on the trail bending and tweaking it to get it rideable. I at least had 4-5 rattly gears to ride back on.
The bikes in the shop now having the hanger checked. Most likely gonna trash the derailleur and get a new one. |
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