|   I think... | slowSSer
Jan 20, 2003 1:20 PM | | that much has changed over there at elsworth. My dad recently got an Id from our LBS (an elsworth dealer) and elsworth called him a day after he registered his bike with them (online) to ask him how his bike is.
Also, they send him updates about possible upgrades for their bikes- as a for instance, recently my dad got a new seatstay piece that is disc-only and has more tire clearance.
I know there were issues in the past, and it seems that they are trying to remedy old problems. |
| not to mention there are competant engineers that disagree with | Jm
Jan 20, 2003 1:42 PM | | Tony Ellsworths "theories" on suspension. Oh his designs work, but not for the reasons he thinks. If you want to research go search for "ellsworth" on ridemonkey or the DH section and look for "DW" (who has redesigned the 2003 Iron Horse linkages).
I am glad I bought an AS-X, not to mention there was a lot in the AS-X article that said the suspension was great all around, just one particular point that they didn't like, the overall angles and handling was way above the ID though, and since the 2003 AS-X comes with a 5th element and ajustable travel, the choice was clear. |
| His ICT patent is a joke... | Knolly
Jan 20, 2003 3:15 PM | | Though i'm sure he'll debate that until the end of the world. I can't believe Specialized hasn't sued his ass over the ICT (Instant Center Tracking) patent, which is totally a violation of the three original Horst Leitner patents. They very clearly state some specific things that Ellsworth does, and regardles of whether Ellsworth has found the "specific ITC geometry" or not, doesn't make any difference: he still uses linkage arrangements that are covered under Leitner's patents. VERY shady as far as I'm concerned.
Then, the whole issue about vertical rear wheel travel is total BS: anybody who knows ANYTHING about suspension knows that it's not whether the wheel travels vertical, but how perpendicular the tangent of the wheel's travel is compared to the tension on the chain.
Anyway, whether the bikes work great or not, or are worth their price, i can't say that I have much respect for their "honesty" factor, regardless of how great their customer service may be. |
| His ICT patent is a joke... | Yeti_Rider
Jan 20, 2003 3:25 PM | | If the patent office granted the patent, then they obviously didn't find that it violated the Specialized, 4-bar patent. Maybe there are similiarities, but with patents, it's fairly easy to work around the wording of one and get something that looks and acts somewhat similiaryly also patented by altering the claims.
I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but it's not wrong of Ellsworth to try and get the patent, it's wrong of the patent office to grant it if in fact the similiarities are so close.
Michael |
| Yup, I totally agree | Knolly
Jan 20, 2003 5:26 PM | | I know what you mean about the patent office. I've been doing a fair bit of patent searching for work recently and it's pretty amazing what get's through.
My comment about his ICT patent wasn't so much as how much it is different or not: it IS the same as the Horst patents, but yes with different wording. However, my FELLING is that the patent was not done because of a "new and unique" invention, it was done as an attempt to get around Specialized's licensing fees. Perhaps some would call that good business, but to me it seems more like scamming. Either way, it's working for Ellsworth I guess... |
| in any event we *hope* its about getting around the FSR patent | Jm
Jan 20, 2003 6:01 PM | | not that they are just dumb :) |
| Ellsworth site changed now | Doug
Jan 20, 2003 2:07 PM | | As I look at it in front of me there is no longer any changing of the words, just cutting out some. So it seems they know they were caught lying and have changed their page to be more accurate. |
| shady | Jm
Jan 20, 2003 2:21 PM | | I just reviewed it and it looks like now they can "technically" get away with it, but its like "just barely", not to mention its still misleading and jumps to conclusions that were not originally found in the original article. I can't say I know of any other manufacturers that have taken an article and completely chopped it up so bad and replaced and ommited words to get something so much different than the original. Now that they've changed it it's not so bad but even still, ive seen companies either quote like one line, or quote an entire favorable article, but never change so much stuff.
That makes them seem desperate to me, and I ain't going to buy no bike from someone that will do virtually anything-no matter if its wrong- to sell it. |
| Not since Specialized did it with the Epic... | sdbelt
Jan 20, 2003 2:27 PM | | and the "holy grail" quote. Specialized tells MBA it's the holy grail. MBA puts Spec's quote in the mag, and then Spec says MBA says the Epic is the Holy Grail.
Seems to be plenty of desperation going around.
--sdb |
| well thats twisting a bit, still not totally inventing things | Jm
Jan 20, 2003 2:39 PM | | like ellsworth did, like their quote about the Id being "even a little removed from the Yeti", the magazine meant it in a way that the Id was more of an XC bike and not as good a freerider(which is what the artical was about), while Ellsworth quoted it to try and make it "stand out" as the best of the group, which is NOT what the magazine meant;
this is still on the Ellsworth site though, and thats more along the lines of what you'd expect em to do, along with specialized, what they had on there before though was flat out lying about not only the content, but the intent of the acticle. They have gone back and changed the content for the most part, but it was a lot worse than even that Spec business. |
| My 2 Cents.... | merlin
Jan 20, 2003 2:47 PM | | I completely agree with everyone that the folks at Ellsworth screwed up big time with the magazine quotes. I just want to add that I have been an owner of a Truth for 2 years and have nothing but the best things to say about the bike and the company. As a matter of fact i'm spending some $$$ on an new one. |
| I'll second that | The Truth
Jan 20, 2003 7:48 PM | | I have had my truth for a year and have raced and riden it all over the midwest with no problems. I'm not buying a new one (yet) cause mine is still in great shape. I don't agree with the marketing pracitces but I do love my bike.
TT |
| Sh|t flows downhill. | Pete.
Jan 20, 2003 7:47 PM | | Tony Ellsworth seems to set the tone and since he is a lying bullsh|t artist, it's not surprising that this kind of bs is acceptable.
[email proving the above allegations available by request, subpoena or divine intervention] |
| Sh|t flows downhill. | Standing Bear
Jan 20, 2003 8:58 PM | | I'd love to see it...
punkndrublic911 at yahoo dot com. |
| Sh|t flows downhill. | Tony Ellsworth
Jan 22, 2003 8:29 PM | | So Pete, let's try by request. If that doesn't work, be forthcoming enough to provide your contact information and we could try subpoena.
You can mail your "proof" to my office:
23672 San Vicente Road, #200
Ramona, CA 92065
I'm interested to see what would motivate you to accumulate such a docket on me.
Sincerely,
Tony |
| ROTFLMAO. Bring it on Tony. | Pete.
Jan 22, 2003 8:41 PM | | Actually, you of all people don't need to request it since you already have it.
Have someone explain how to search your archived Inbox items and/or your Outbox.
My contact information is easily found on the net if you are so clueless as to be unable to search your Inbox/Outbox and you want to try legal means to acquire the information.
Perhaps you should consult with your attorney first though so he can explain the simple fact that you would need to file suit against me first before even trying to subpoena me (the "proof" wouldn't be subpoenaed, it would be produced during discovery).
Do what you have to do Tony.
Irreverently,
Pete |
| Send it to me too... | Gill-igan
Jan 25, 2003 1:22 PM | | ajoc_prez at yahoo . com |
| |
