|   Update on my fight with VW - Not bike related | Rev Bubba
Feb 20, 2003 6:31 AM | | I try to keep away from non bike topices but since I did list my problems with VW below, I figured I would be fair and give an update on what has happened so far.
After speaking with VW's "Consumer Advocate" they agreed to the following. First, they would pay for 50% of the parts and labor I spend to replace the Mass Air Sensor on 1/24/03. After I send in the original invoice and proof of payment they will send me a check for around $190.00.
Concerning the most recent problem discovered on 2/18, they have agreed to pay for 50% of the parts only. The quote for parts for the secondary air pump, kombi valve and misc. parts was 417.02 so they will pick up approximately $208. I'm still liable for the other $208 plus $522 in labor.
In fairness, the defective air pump is very loud so it is obvious something is not right. I'm not a mechanic nor do I have the luxury of running around to different dealers and shops to get another estimate. I need the car every day. The dealer, Trend Motors in Rockaway, NJ, will do the repairs tomorrow.
Am I happy? Hell no. I think the problems are the result of a faulty design and I can not recommend that anyone purchase a product from Volkswagen.
End of rant. |
| A friend of mine | KL
Feb 20, 2003 6:36 AM | | had to fight tooth and nail to get VW to buy back her 2 year old Jetta after it started misfiring and running on 3 cylinders. She also had driveshaft problems. I have an old wolfsburg GLi and always thought of maybe replacing it some day with something newer from VW. But the more I read(recall on coils in 1.8's) and hear, the less I want one.
Kevin Lynch |
| Damn Volkswagen again. Their response on the coil | Rev Bubba
Feb 20, 2003 8:07 AM | | Service guy says, yes, there is a problem but no, they can not replace the bad coil until it actually goes bad? Huh? Sorry, not enough parts available and I'm planning on driving to Mt. Tremblant in two weeks. My car will be in the shop Friday to have the latest problems corrected so why not take care of the coil? No, that is too logical.
So, what happens if the coil goes bad while I'm away? Oh, you basically stop driving....
God Damned Volkswagen. It keeps getting worse...
So, I ask, when I try the Consumer Advocate (a joke really), what happens when I'm in Canada and my coil breaks? Oh, if you keep a copy of the towing bill, we "may" reimburse you.
Honda's are looking oh so attractive these days unless I want a wagon and than the Subaru looks nice. |
| 24K for a 240hp, leather, and full power Accord. | JRinCA
Feb 20, 2003 8:13 AM | | If you don't mind being 1 in 3 or 4. Sounds like pretty good odds. I don't really enjoy the rear end of the new Accord, and think VW has a better looking product, but for reliability... Honda. I bought a 91 CIVIC DX 3 door and that little car was awesome! Too bad I upgraded to a SUV, sometimes I still wish I had that 16V 1.5L 3 door with only a 5 speed and air (it did have a remote hatch release and color coded bumpers!). |
| What is 1 in 3 or 4? Odds of the coil going? | Rev Bubba
Feb 20, 2003 8:49 AM | | VW told me that most of the coil problems were with 2001 and 2002 models so maybe I can escape this little mess.
The service manager at my dealer even told me that VW's were going downhill faster than a 20 year old on a Bullet. (Okay, they just said their quality was going downhill.) There is something to the idea that the Japanese are better with electronics than the Germans and my problems are basically electrical or computer related.
Passats are nice looking and fun to drive but that is the key, I want to be able to drive it all the time, not between days in the shop.
Guess since I seem to have avoided the broken frames that I-Drives are noted for I'm getting my payback for something with the car instead. |
| Just referring to how many are on the road. My wife... | JRinCA
Feb 20, 2003 8:58 AM | | loves her Volvo S40 due to the fact that there aren't many out on the road. I'm trying to get her to look at the Accord! |
| Wait 'till next year... | ciclistagonzo
Feb 20, 2003 9:07 AM | | As I mentioned below I just bought the 03 Odyssey, and I went test driving on Saturday, I drove the 03, V6 5sp Auto Accord, first of, very nice car, surprising pop, but the Salemans said, for sheer fun factor, for 04, Honda is going to have the option of a 6 speed Mani.
OOOOHHH, that'd be fun, 240hp, 242 lbs, 6 sp. Now, if they'd just come out with AWD........
-Aaron
(Recent Honda Convert....) |
| Odyssey good... | TwoWheelinTim
Feb 20, 2003 9:11 AM | | I can cram an awful lot of bike, riders and gear in it. I only wish it had been available with a 5 or 6 speed manual. This is the first automatic vehicle I've owned in over 25 years of vehicle ownership...but I still like it despite this shortcoming. |
| Only had it two days..... | ciclistagonzo
Feb 20, 2003 9:20 AM | | So I still haven't put it thru it's paces, but so far I'm quite happy with the 5 sp. auto. That and the engines got plenty of power no matter what gear it's in.
Kinda sad, my 95 Camero (V6) has less Hp and Lbs of Torque!! (Well, for now)
Aaron G. |
| OR One of these from Honda... | ciclistagonzo
Feb 20, 2003 8:50 AM | | 240 Horse also, 5 Speed Auto, Full wishbone suspension (all 4 wheels)
And a TON of Bike Cargo Room.
Of course I'm biased, I just picked mine up Tuesday!
-Aaron G. |
| How much? | Rev Bubba
Feb 20, 2003 8:52 AM | | A van is an option that I really have not considered. What is the model and cost if I may ask? |
| How much? | ciclistagonzo
Feb 20, 2003 9:02 AM | | We got the Odyssey EX, Base is LX, Then EX, EXL and EXNav, L=Leather, and Nav is Navigation system.
Comes with a lot stock, Power everything including the Both Sliding Doors, and Even the Rear Vent windows are Power. Quad Captian chairs, a dozen cup holders, etc. My favorite is the Magic Hide third row. The third row drops into a well and folds flat, there's like nearly 5 feet from the rear of the second row to the tail. (I can fit 3 bikes inside, I already checked!)
MRSRP Sticker was 27,390, Dealer Mark up had up to 29,320, Got it for less than 27,000.
-Aaron
Did I mention the 240 horse and 242 lbs or torque? |
| Thanks | Rev Bubba
Feb 20, 2003 9:13 AM | | Not going to buy anything just yet but I seriously have to know what is out there. Used to be I just went to the same old dealer, looked up Glen, my salesman, told him what I was willing to pay for what model, signed the contract and took delivery in a day or two. I was too comfortable with VW's so having these problems at least gets my arsh moving to give another company a chance. |
| Funny... | ciclistagonzo
Feb 20, 2003 9:17 AM | | But you wouldn't do that for a bike right? Yet you do that for a car?
Wow! I wish I could find a dealer that I could have that much faith on. The Honda Dealer I delt with had it's highs and low, the original Finance Managaer pissed me off so much I walked out, and it had nothing to do with the car, $$$ or credit, he was just an idiot. His bossed called me up Tuesday to apologize and then offered me a great deal. I'd/will buy from him again.
Aaron |
| Just got off the phone with Glen the salesman. | Rev Bubba
Feb 20, 2003 9:33 AM | | Seems that he may be able to get some better results. He also said the coil problem only related to later turbo's with the 170 hp rating. I have the older 150 hp engine. Like me, Glen has the 150 hp so I put some faith in what he has to say. He also said the problem with the coil show up pretty early and that if it did not happen by 41,000 miles, I was safe. |
| Value of a long term relationship.... | ciclistagonzo
Feb 20, 2003 10:58 AM | | is showing right there! Glad to hear you're getting a better deal.
1/2 of parts, wasn't enough in my opinion, either.
-Aaron |
| The LX has almost as much... | TwoWheelinTim
Feb 20, 2003 9:37 AM | | and cost considerably less. I figured I didn't need the alloy wheels, electric sliding doors, or the "entertainment" system. The drive train, chassis and everything that really matters is all the same. The van JAMS too. There aint another soccer mom van on the road that can keep up with the Oddity. Heck, it kicks butt on most SUVs too. I couldn't care less about image, it's all about functionality. If I want to go REALLY fast I ride my motorcycle. |
| True.... | ciclistagonzo
Feb 20, 2003 10:57 AM | | But my wife wanted the power sliding doors. And I know better than to argue with her..
No DVD system for me, couldn't justify the 1200 price tag.
Do you know how many bike parts I can buy with THAT?!?!?!
-Aaron |
| Did you pay FULL PRICE! (nm) | MtnBum
Feb 20, 2003 9:18 AM | | |
| NOPE!!!(nm) | ciclistagonzo
Feb 20, 2003 9:20 AM | | nm |
| retail is for suckers | [nm]
Feb 21, 2003 10:04 AM | | |
| I heard it a different way.... | Rev Bubba
Feb 21, 2003 10:23 AM | | Why did God make W.A.S.P.'s?
Because someone had to pay retail....... |
| A vote for the Accord. | ScottN
Feb 20, 2003 11:21 AM | | My wife is on her 4th or 5th Accord. Each car has been incredible as far as reliabiliy goes, well into 100,000 miles. The current one is a 2000 LX sedan with the 4 cyl and 5 speed manual. Full of a week's worth of traveling gear with bikes on the roof it still manages 400 miles or more to a tank full, and it drive just fine. It could be a little more powerful, but that's only because I drove a V8 pickup for so long.
Sn |
| Bummer about the Veedub | Kitchenware
Feb 20, 2003 8:38 AM | | I hope they straighten it out for you and make you happy.
Remember though, this kind of thing happens with ALL dealers/cars (as I'm sure you know, dealers SUCK). I can tell you I've had very similar problems with both Mazda and Suzuki and my father has had the same type of problems with a new Toyota here recently, so.... Be firm with them and stay on their a$$, you could be going through the same thing with honda or any other car. |
| I'm not giving up but it shouldn't have to be me that begs | Rev Bubba
Feb 20, 2003 8:54 AM | | I've been very loyal to this dealer and I feel they owe me big time and I'm not getting the payback I want.
Oh, very loyal means 9 cars for the family over 26 years plus a number of referral purchases. |
| WOW! | Kitchenware
Feb 20, 2003 8:58 AM | | They should meet you at the door when you arrive, like with your favorite cookies and fresh towels or something then. :)
Like someone said below, sounds like you got a bad dealer. Once again, I surely hope they work it out for you. There's nothing more frustrating than dealing with an a$$ of a dealer. |
| Interesting | -Chip.
Feb 20, 2003 10:18 AM | | You're so loyal that the dealer "owes" you, yet you don't hesitate to post that you wouldn't recommend buying any VW products (though I doubt many paid heed), not to mention your negative comments re: said dealer's inability to handle its growth and subsequent increase in service-related business.
While I agree with your idea to try a different dealer for your next service visit, I suggest you mull over the following before dumping VW altogether:
-One bad apple don't spoil the whole bunch, girl
-The grass is always greener at the other auto maufacturer
Good luck.
-C
p.s. - In my experiences, and in the experiences of those I know (including a loyal VW family who far exceeds your purchase history), finding a quality mechanic is almost always better than using dealer service. If it's not for a free/cheap oil change or a recall issue I typically don't go back to the dealer (who I'm very happy with) until it's time to buy a new car. |
| Well put......... | SoulRider
Feb 20, 2003 9:04 AM | | I agree. Cars are mechanical objects and we all know that mechanical objects have problems now and then. I work for a car manufacturer and have been in the industry for roughly 15 years. I have yet to see a car that didn't have it's share of problems. It all boils down to what car you like and if you are willing to accept it's quirks. If you can't, you get rid of it. The dealer has the ability to cover your repair if they chose to do so. The Service Mngr can make the decision up front. It's called a "policy adjustment". Only the Service Mngr can make that judgement call though. |
| Damn Volkswagen again. Their response on the coil | josho
Feb 20, 2003 8:54 AM | | Dude sounds like it's time to get a Honda. I bought an 02 Civic Si last year. 2.0 Liter 16V iVTEC. Cranks out 160 hp and 132 ft/lbs of torque. Couldn't be happier with the car. The only thing I've had go wrong with it was a friend of mine blew the clutch up (still trying to figure out why he though it was neccassary to shift from fifth to the fourth at 75 mph, the mechanics said the only way the transmission could have possibly looked the way it did is if he hit second instead of fourth), but Honda replaced it under warranty. The car was only two months old.
Sounds like your getting a bum wrap with VW, cool cars but if that's the service I can expect, I'll pass.
happy trails...
josho |
| My friend has a new Si | KL
Feb 20, 2003 9:30 AM | | what a fun car to drive, and more torque than I expected too. I had an old Si and I'd have to downshift to get the power up. The new Si's have good torque.
Kevin L. |
| My friend has a new Si | josho
Feb 20, 2003 9:37 AM | | They've got great torque an the whoopie really starts when you hit about 4 grand and the VTEC kicks in. It's just to bad I've only got another three thousand rpm to enjoy it. I got one of the first ones to come out and the rev limiter sits at 7450 rpm. They replaced the chip in the cpu with a different one shortly after I got mine and now it won't kick you out till about 8300 rpm. I want that chip!
It also handles great.
happy trails...
josho |
| Why can't the coil be obtained thru aftermarket? | KL
Feb 20, 2003 9:27 AM | | Coils are pretty straight-forward, as long as you keep the plug wires in the right order. Is it a question of a new design? Or is the coil more advanced with a "direct ignition" type of application?
Kevin Lynch |
| Maybe it can but than I pay for it. | Rev Bubba
Feb 20, 2003 9:35 AM | | I just found out from my salesman that the problem only effected the 170 hp turbo models, not the 150 hp I have. Maybe I can get to Canada and back without having to be towed through Montreal. |
| Supposedly the coils are an ongoing widespread problem on late | tl1
Feb 20, 2003 11:34 AM | | ...model VWs. I learned that there is a total recall on the ones that have one coil per cylinder and there are a LOT of VWs with single coil probs. I heard that on Car Talk on NPR with Click and Clack this past Saturday. http://cartalk.cars.com/show/ Check out recalls and service bulletins for your car at NHTSA. http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/recalls/
I wanted so badly to buy a VW Passat but reports of continuing and non-improving poor reliability problems prevented that. All my local dealers are pretty cheesy too. I owned a bought-new 1985 VW GTI for 12 years which drove great but had just OK reliability. When it came time to buy new cars I've went with dead reliable Toyotas since. Never had one problem yet or been left stranded once. |
| I work for VW... | Sexly
Feb 20, 2003 4:51 PM | | Yep I work at a VW dealership and they are right they cannot replace the coil until it goes bad. The problem is VW bought a ton of bad coils, used them, and then realized they were bad, and is scrambling trying to find a supplier. Well they found a supplier but they cannot keep up with the demand for coils for cars that are being built, and the demand for those already in cars that are failing. |
| Is it true that the problem is with the 170 hp turbos? | Rev Bubba
Feb 21, 2003 5:39 AM | | I was told not to worry because my 2000 model has the 150 hp motor. Is this true or just a way to avoid the issue? Also, with 41,000 miles on the car, have I passed the point of failure? I.E. if it was going to break, would it have broken already? I need the car for a long trip to Mt. Trembant, Canada in two weeks and don't want to chance getting stuck.
Thanks for any info.
REV |
| You got a bad dealer... | KonaMan
Feb 20, 2003 8:43 AM | | This sounds similar to a problem a freind of mine had with her mass air flow sensor on her 2K1 Golf. In her case though, the head service guy at the dealership called up VW and made them take car of the parts and labor.
Myself... 42K miles on a 2K1 TDI Jetta... loving every mile of that thing. |
| Yes, Trend Motors is a bad dealer | Rev Bubba
Feb 20, 2003 8:51 AM | | They have gotten too big to handle all the service requirements and it shows. I think I'll try Bernardsville VW for my 45K service. |
| I'm glad I didn't get a Passat.. | Raja
Feb 20, 2003 10:03 AM | | I wanted a Passat Wagon ever since they came out with the new body style in 98. I waited a few months to see if VW's quality had improved before buying one and was glad I did. After a few months I saw reports of blown turbos and various electrical problems. So, I waited longer to see if things were a fluke. No, more and more problems started showing up on the Edmunds boards and Carreview's website. Every time I went and drove one, I came away very impressed but the little voice inside my head said no. I finally bought a Toyota Highlander which has been reliable, but doesn't handle like a VW. At 31K the only real problem has been warped brake rotors at 15K and now again at 30K. Of course I don't help matters by trying to drive it like a race car.
Good luck with VW. Judging by all the sob stories I have read you're going to need it. |
| That sucks! | Gill-Again
Feb 20, 2003 11:23 AM | | I learned my "Don't buy VW" lesson a while back. I bought a '91 Corrado and the thing was the biggest hunk of cr@p I've ever driven. It had electrical problems that nobody could find. I had the entire wiring harness, the computer chip, the alternator, and a host of other parts replaced (all out of my pocket) and the battery would still go dead every fourth day or so. It got so bad that I kept a battery charger and a couple 100 foot extension cords in the hatch and just hoped I was near enough to an outlet that I could plug in on the days when the battery died.
In 1996, I finally sold it when I realized I was paying more in repain bills than a new (used) car payment would cost me every month. I bought a '94 Toyota 4-Runner (just turned 100K miles) and have never had a single issue with it.
I had heard that VWs are much more reliable now, but I guess that's just a bunch of marketing hot air being blown up the collective @sses of consumers. |
| Bummer... I still LOVE my vee-dub... | Ska!
Feb 20, 2003 11:42 AM | | I'm now sitting at 194000 kms on my 97 GTI (2.0 litre) and it's never let me down. Did all of my regular scheduled stuff and, other than brakes, a muffler and tires, it hasn't needed a thing! Great car, great to drive and worth every penny I paid for it. I totally recommend VW's to folks.
Bummer about your Passat. A friend of mine has one and he hasn't had any probs either. We'll see I guess.
Ska! |
| The've been rock solid for me | pimpbot
Feb 21, 2003 10:28 AM | | I drive a 96 GTi 2.0 and an 87 Jetta GL, and both have been rock solid for me. The GTi is up to 115k miles and the Jetta is up to around 220k miles. I had a 79 Scirocco that went to 310k miles on the original engine with no trouble except for regular wear-out stuff like tires, batteries and an alternator.
I got a bud who bought a 2000 Jetta GLS and it has been pretty reliable except for some interior stuff. It seems that VW used a cheesy plastic in their electric window mechanism that holds the glass. When the car gets hot in the sun, the plastic gets brittle and cracks and drops the window in the door. The Sonnen Motors in Marin repaired it under warranty.
It sounds to me like VW has some detail issues to work out, but on when whole they're great cars. It sounds like you need a dealer that is willing to take care of you tho, or you're screwed.
My Mo-inlaw drives a Mercury Tracer. She's only got 60k miles on it and it seems to be pretty dang worn out. IMHO, american cars seem to have a 100k mile lifespan and that's it. So far I've owned 3 VW's all over 100k miles and all still in great shape.
I'm still concidering a new Jetta Wagon. I'm gonna get the extended warranty for sure. I may pass on the turbo version. |
| My older 4 cylinder VW's were much less trouble | Rev Bubba
Feb 21, 2003 10:55 AM | | I got some details from WWW.VWortex on the coil recall and it only effects models made after 2000 so I'm safe there. Too bad neither the dealer or the VW Consumer Advocate had this information whereas I was able to obtain it. The recall is not brand new.
Still waiting for a more favorable decision on the other problems. I was able to find a number of people on line who have had the same problem with the secondary air pump so I emailed the information to the dealer. We shall see.
The service manager, quite off the record, said there have been many more problems with more recent VW's and that the only cars the mechanics would drive, if they drove a VW at all, were 4 cyclinder ones. The assistant service manager said she was sticking with her '87 Golf which has given her no trouble.
All my previous VW's gave me more than 100,000 miles of much more reliable service. I, or someone in my family, have had: '77 Rabbit, '86 Golf, '87 Golf, '89 Golf, '93 Passat GLX, '97 GTI, '98 GTI VR6, '99 Passat GLS and my present '00 Passat GLS.
If I can not find an independent mechanic who works on Passats, I will try the service at Bernardsville VW in the future. It's no where near as convenient but if they save me some return trips, the extra time will be worth it. |
| a friend bought a first year "new" Beetle | rpet
Feb 20, 2003 1:13 PM | | And she paid extra for the (at that time) elusive puke green color.
The trunk lock mechanism broke something like 7 times in less than a year, so she lemon-lawed it and got the Turbo as a replacement. Yay for lemon-law, boo for VW.
-r |
| you got a lemon, that's all | Zorak
Feb 20, 2003 1:41 PM | | But not all VWs are bad. Just like there are lemon Hondas, Nissans, or Fords there are lemon VWs. And the people who have the lemons are the ones who squeal the loudest. Do your research and you'll see that VW has a fanatically loyal following. VWs have character, unlike Hondas for example.
I've got two late model VWs, a TDI and a 1.8T. Neither has had anything wrong except the window regulators on one car replaced under warranty. Great mileage out of the TDI with the smooth and torquey turbodiesel. If more people test drive these things, they'd forget gas engines. Very tuneable with just a chip making a big difference.
My 1.8T is a blast to drive - it was an Audi engine first and is smooth and willing to rev. Yes there is a recall on coilpacks - made by Hitachi. Mainly The 180HP 1.8Ts in the Golf/Jetta '02 are affected.
Sorry you got a lemon, but it's hard to find the fit, finish and safety ratings of a VW with the slick interior and fun to drive feel at the price they sell for. |
| not true all! go to jdpower.com | Shockee
Feb 20, 2003 3:03 PM | | While I agree that the ergonomics and style of the VW/Audis is top notch, there is definitely a pattern of poor reliability in their cars - ESPECIALLY relative to two the companies you mention (Honda and Nissan).
I'm not just going on all the VW lemons owned by myself and those I know - the JD Power midterm and long term ratings have the VWs near the lemon-end of the scale with rigid consistency! Honda and Nissan are invariable near the top of these scales. I just compared a few 1998 VWs to Hondas and Nissans, the gap in ratings is huge. To ignore both the empiricial and anecdotal data, is delusional. What do we have to do to convince you that you are courting disaster to own a VW beyond the warranty? |
| I don't know.... | Sunny
Feb 21, 2003 12:16 AM | | That Mass Air Flow sensor sure seem to be popular. It dies on my '01 Passat just past the warranty period...$500 Cdn.
Another sensor went a few months earlier and was under warranty.
Seat heater died (warranty)
The Trunk release is flaky, and I think the rear brake pads are wearing down too fast.
My 8 year old Integra had a burned out head light after one year and that was the extend of "problems".
VW in the future...I don't think so. |
| Rear brake pads went on two Passats at 30,000 miles | Rev Bubba
Feb 21, 2003 5:49 AM | | I paid to replace both and just chalked it up to normal wear and tear but it seemed strange that the rears would go before the fronts. I thought that, like a bike, most of the braking was done in front.
I failed to mention the power window regulator that was replaced under warranty in my wife's '99 Passat.
Fit and finish is nice but nothing that you would not find on a Japanese care.
Yes, I do love the design of the Passat and the feel of how they drive but the reliability issue is outweighing that. The "perfect" car for me, if reliability was not an issue, would be the Passat Wagon with 4Motion but reliability is an issue unless I could get a bumper to bumper warranty for say, 100,000 miles. I'd be willing to pay an extra $1000 for such a thing when I purchased a car just for the peace of mind.
Again, leaving out reliability, I think the Passat was a good buy for a take home price (tax and delivery included) of $22,000 US.
This is really getting to me since I like to drive the car so much. |
| Note on the rear pads... | KonaMan
Feb 21, 2003 8:43 AM | | From the dealer (mine need replacing at 40K)...
They use a softer compound so that noise may be minimalized, and they determined that the softer compound brakes better on the rears for their vehicles.
The $$$ sucks to fork out, but it's worth it to me.
Also, there's a good article in www.VWVORTEX.com on the coil packs. |
| Thanks. | Rev Bubba
Feb 21, 2003 8:47 AM | | I was not complaining about the pads, more curious, so thanks for the information. |
| Another thanks. | Rev Bubba
Feb 21, 2003 9:06 AM | | VW Vortex contained quite a discussion on bad secondary air pumps and combi valves so I emailed that to my dealer to see if it gets them to budge on the warranty issue I'm going through.
Many thanks. Great info for me to have. |
| For all you VW owners and future owners, www. VWVORTEX.com | KonaMan
Feb 21, 2003 1:40 PM | | is the site to get any info you want to know about issues, current and past, on all models, engines. Also a great resource on any mods you want to do on your VeeDub. |
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