|   I'm thinking about hydros here. | Kitchenware
May 29, 2003 1:43 PM | | I've actually contemplated this a couple times before, but with the sale of the Bullit frame imminent, I'll have some extra cycle related cashflow, so... Here I am *again* shopping for and reading about hydro brakes.
I seem to be leaning toward Hayes right now just because a few ppl I ride with have them and local shops carry replacement parts, but which model? Should I be thinking about Hopes, or Maguras? |
| I would HAYEt to see you not be able to get replacement parts... | 006_007
May 29, 2003 2:08 PM | | ;-)
Seriously though, parts availability is always a concern. If possible try all the major players, as it is definately a personal feel. I love my Hayes (both 6" and 8"), was not happy when I tried a bike with Maguras, but the owner of the Maguras loves those and hates Hayes......
Maybe the answer is in the new Juicy 7's....... |
| If you are going to get Hayes... | CraigH
May 29, 2003 2:10 PM | | Don't get the HFX9 levers, check the DH board a couple of days ago for more info.
The Hayes Mag levers are the same proven levers.
Currently I have 3 set of Hayes Mags, and one set of Magura Louise, not to mention a bunch of Magura HS-33 hydraulic rim brakes. |
| Some thoughts. | Zonic Man
May 29, 2003 2:15 PM | | If I could do it, and I were you:
1. XTR disc w/ XT (or even deore) levers. They f-ing rock.
2. Hayes Mag hydro. Second best brake I've ever used.
Stay away from all others for how you ride (like me) IMHO. |
| Not a lot of shops carry Hope replacement parts ... | K'Endo
May 29, 2003 2:25 PM | | But then, you rarely need to replace parts on Hope brakes.
Kn. |
| If you go Hayes, spend the bucks on aftermarket levers. | Twilight Error®
May 29, 2003 4:23 PM | | I've got the Mag brakes on my Stinky with Razor Rock levers. The RRs are the only saving grace of that brake, nothing else about it is worth going out of your way for.
My next mtb is going to have Avid Mechanicals. |
| I'm staying with the Avid mechanicals | radair
May 29, 2003 5:13 PM | | I can't see any reason to go to hydros, unless it's for a big rotor. Doesn't Avid make an 8" model now anyway?
Too simple to set up and maintain. |
| Me 2 | Jisch
May 29, 2003 6:26 PM | | I had some pad wear issues on my first three sets of pads. I was cruising through pads at an alarming rate. I switched to EBC pads and its much better now. I've been riding the same pads for 2 months now. Maybe I'm braking less?
Who knows, but I think the Avid original pads were way too soft.
On a recent trip one of my buds accidentally pulled his lever while his wheel was off - big trouble. He loosened the wrong bolt and got air in the system - his front brake was worthless until he got to a bike shop. Ok - he made an ignorant mistake, but still, can't make that mistake with mechanicals.
John |
| Hate to, but I gotta support the Avids | JFR
May 29, 2003 6:51 PM | | Used Hayes since 1/99, heck still running the '99 Hayes in the rear... but I jacked up the front caliper/piston last year and Zonic Man sold me his used Avids... as a band aid really; now I'm an Avid supporter.
As stated, they're easy to set up and maintain, but they work DARN good too... let's not leave that out. With a Hayes in back and an Avid in front I can tell virtually no diff when riding. (Speaking of "maintaining" them, yeah, change the cable every so often, big wup, no hydro bleeding hassle/expense.)
It's the easy adjustabilty that really sells me. Using an Avid speed dial lever in combo with the adjustment knobs on the caliper, the lever feel and modulation can be SO easily adjusted. And no worries if the brake lever is somehow squeezed with the wheel off either... what a complete drag that is when it happens to Hydro brakes.
There might be a small performance advantage to hydros, but it will not be noticed (or needed) by most riders. Yeah, I'm gonna have to put on my flame suit for this post; I know everybody loves their hydros... they ARE great, but IMHO the set-up/maintenance/adjustablity woes do not justify the performance advantage compared to Avid Mechs.
Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with Avid, this is merely my personal opinion. Your experience, or the experience of your brother in law's friend or the experience shared by some other person over the internet, may be different. This has been a personal testimonial without any financial compensation or motivation for said testimonial. The opinion(s) expressed above is just one guy's opinion. The preceding is NOT spam. JFR is NOT a spam machine... just in a sharing/posting mood lately. |
| Anti-Avids for mtn bikes | 3G
May 29, 2003 7:34 PM | | I have the Avids on three of my bikes and have noticed a few issues. On a mountain bike they don't have the needed modulation for very techie riding. They grab just a bit too much and are either ON or OFF. There really isn't a middle ground.
I know people rave about weight but with the aforementioned trade off I don't think a few grams really are an issue.
Cable stretch and adjusting the pads in the caliper is a pain in the butt. I have to adjust my Avid's just about every other ride in some fashion.
Heat. Avid's tend to heat up on very long downhills for adult-sized riders and squeal like a stuck hog and I have tried just about every pad compound out there and there isn't a current fix.
However, I will say that they work GREAT on my road bike and I love them in that application. But, I am not taking my road bike down rock drops either. |
| Are you talking about DISC brakes? | radair
May 30, 2003 5:34 AM | | Because that's what the rest of this thread is about. You have Avid discs on your ROAD bike? Cool!
You're doing something wrong if you have to adjust every ride. Adjusting calipers is a pain in the butt? This leads me to believe you must not be talking about discs, because I can change to a different front wheel and readjust the caliper in well under a minute.
JFR - all good points. The disclaimer is a riot, Zanfel spammer. |
| Yes, DISC brakes | 3G
May 30, 2003 8:07 AM | | I am a larger rider (built like a linebacker 6'3" and 220) and the Avids require much adjustment of the caliper as I go through the pad compound. A couple of my buddies who go 6'7" have the same issues with the Avids and squeal/fade with heat.
Like previously mentioned, when riding serious tech stuff the Avid will grab and lock up rather than modulate and is a well known issue with them. I have been riding the Avids since they were first introduced (two of my sets were the magnet retainers prior to the retro fit of the clips) and have tried just about every trick and adjustment with them. For hardcore technical riding they can be beat. I have ridden the Hope M4's and the Hayes and both modulate much better.
On basic XC riding they are fine, though. On my road bike they rock.
 |
| That rig is just beautifully done... | terminaut
May 30, 2003 10:02 AM | | I'm with you on the Avids for techy riding. I ended up selling off my set of 185/160 Avids cheap as I couldn't ever get mine to modulate as finely as I'd like (even with Avid Ultimate levers). I did recently ride a bike that was set up with 8-inch Avids front and rear though, and those were surprisingly nice in terms of modulation and power.
I'm strictly Hopes (5 sets) now without nary a problem/complaint. |
| Thanks, Term | 3G
May 30, 2003 10:22 AM | | Thanks for the compliment on the rig, especially coming from a man with so many fine ones.
I am looking at the M4's now to put on the Ells to eliminate my stopping (or lackthereof) headaches.
See you on Fred tonight?
Cletis |
| No, thank <i>you</i> for the fine bike porn... | terminaut
May 30, 2003 11:18 AM | | It's awesome to see bikes that were obviously labors of love and that is one of the nicest I've seen. Rolling art, for sure.
Still debating the Fred affair as I'm really trying to get another project-bike done (it's been several months in the making)... Wouldn't you know it - it's the brakes that are slowing me down. I'm making custom titanium V-jobbers. Oh the joy. |
| Wow, really cool rig | radair
May 30, 2003 4:58 PM | | Are those fenders mahogany? Teak? Actually, after a second look I'm guessing cherry. Impressive craftsmanship, I'd be interested in hearing about them. Love the handlebars too.
I have not had the modulation issues you guys refer to. Mine are the older models (no pad clips), and they mod better than any brake I've ever used. Interesting that Mike T. had the same comment when he tested some out. I'm guessing it's a pad issue, because I couldn't deal with the instant on syndrome either. |
| If you get the Avid levers with the leverage adjuster... | Lucky
May 30, 2003 7:09 AM | | You can change that on/off feel. I did that on my Titus, and am now quite happy with them for technical stuff. In fact, I liked it so much that I bought a 2nd set for my new bike and sold off the Hayes Mag hydros it came with. I travel enough with my bike on vacation I didn't want to have to bring a bleed kit, just in case. Spare brake cables pack real small. ;^)
Kathy |
| what the 'ell do I know but... | Zaphod
May 30, 2003 12:14 PM | | while I've never ridden hydraulics I did witness my buddy (chewbacca) have no brakes due to air bubbles when riding Toads at 9000'. As we dropped in altitude his brakes improved. At 6000 all was well again.
my 2c
-Zaphod (running cane creek vbrakes) |
| Shimano XT - cheap, simple, work great. nm | upNdown
May 30, 2003 3:54 AM | | nm |
| I really like the Hopes on J's bike | kristian
May 30, 2003 7:08 AM | | They have SO much more modulation than the Hayes on the Bullit. It's hard to compare power though since the bullit has wider rubber and a bigger rotor. I've never felt the Hopes to be lacking in power though and never experienced any sort of fade with them. |
| hopes are nice (when they work) | narlus
May 30, 2003 9:51 AM | | i've had 3 sets of Hopes (two C2s, one O2) and have gradually been moving over to Hayes because of annoying problems...
i've got two and half sets of Hayes and like 'em. |
| My brother just moved his Hope's over to his XC bike... | CraigH
May 30, 2003 10:27 AM | | From his Bullit due to problems with them. I think they were the 02 version.
He replaced them with a set of Hayes Mags. |
| About discs, i've got Avids on one bike, Hopes on the other.... | Nonny
May 30, 2003 3:36 PM | | ...and while i like em both i definitely prefer the Avids. Ease of installation, ease of maintenance, near infinite adjustability. They may be a little bit heavier than the Hopes but that isn't really an issue considering the weight of the bike they are on.
The Hope Minis on my other bike do work quite well but are much finickier critters (note: my experience is based on having installed/maintained Minis on several bikes over the past few years). They do look great but unless i'm looking to save a few grams my next bike will probably end up with another set of Avids.
As for replacement parts... well, Speedgoat has been able to get me any parts i have ever needed for the Hopes quickly enough but, when i can go into just about any shop in town here and get parts for the Avid discs (not that i've ever needed any replacement parts for my Avids but still i have seen the stuff stocked in most shops) then i just have to give the nod to the Avids on that point, (note: i've slso seen plenty of shops with Hayes spare parts so if you go that route parts shouldn't be much of a concern... shops with Magura stuff are a lot rarer so plan on calling Speedgoat for that stuff).
So, to sum it all up, i'd suggest holding off on hydraulics until you've taken a look at the Avid Mechanicals and considered what they can offer you in terms of bang for the buck. In the end tho, ride em all and go with what feels right for you.
Non. |
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