|   Vision Quest 2004........ | donkey
Dec 31, 2003 1:34 PM | | Who's riding? Gears or Single?
For those of you who are not local to Southern Cal, here is your open invite to come out and enjoy all the best climbing that we have to offer!
http://www.warriorssociety.org/Events_And_Results/vision_quest_general_info.html |
| re: Vision Quest 2004........ | slowSSer
Dec 31, 2003 2:30 PM | | Ill be there....as a voluteer. someone's got to do it, right? |
| i'm planning to ride it single... | sslos
Dec 31, 2003 4:07 PM | | this'll be my first go-'round, and i probably need front suspension!
the los |
| the course is actually pretty.... | donkey
Jan 2, 2004 2:00 PM | | tame, in terms of terrain that would warrant a squishy fork. Go rigid:) I have a squishy you can borrow for the day if you want! |
| re: Vision Quest 2004........ | DDawg
Dec 31, 2003 6:48 PM | | 29'r SS. Hopefully Aosty and I will have our Dean's by then, otherwise it'll be on the KM. Fully rigid regardless |
| Single, of course. Is there another way? | Padre
Jan 1, 2004 12:21 AM | | The wife has decided rigid and single for her...I'm undecided on the front suspension as of yet.... |
| I will be there if funds allow | shiggy©®
Jan 1, 2004 2:14 PM | | On my 26er, though.
Did the course escape the fires? |
| The trails are fine; the organization isn't | RangerJay
Jan 1, 2004 6:01 PM | | No fires in Orange County. In fact, I was riding much of this course on the day they started, watching the smoke cloud grow on the horizon and keep the trail in shade and the temps down 20 degrees below the forecast 100+.
Did Counting Coup last year on the 29 and that made the ride much nicer than before, particularly on the mile or so of snow down from the top of the peak.
This year, I won't be out there because I refuse to support the organization putting the event on. They seem to be throwing their political muscle (what little there is) in line with motorcycle and other motorized trail users. I believe it should be the priority of XC riders to inform the public (and other trail users) how different we are from the motorized bunch. We do less damage than equestrians and, considering how active MTBers are in trail maintenance, less than hikers. Even though IÕm also a dirt biker and 4x4 enthusiast, I like to keep the those activities separate from mountain biking both in ideology and geography. |
| Find me another organization that..... | donkey
Jan 2, 2004 8:38 AM | | has done as much for the Santa Ana Mountains. They have logged more hours of trail maintenance that any other advocacy group, mtb or otherwise. While you may not agree with there politics, you have to admit that they have done alot for the trails of socal, and the socal mtb community.
Also, I am not a member of the Warrior's Society. |
| IMBA | RangerJay
Jan 2, 2004 12:21 PM | | They are not an IMBA affiliate, and the maintenance is rarely for the public, but primarily done for their owm members and friends. (They often hide trail entrances.) And the net result of aligning with motorized vehicle groups is likely to result in a ban of mountain biking in the National Forest. While many, if not most, individual members have their hearts in the right place, the leader runs it as a personal fiefdom. I feel supporting other organizations would be a far better placed effort.
IMBA deserves more support. They take a less confrontational tactic that tends to bear results. It's too bad there is no major IMBA affiliate in Orange County. That I would certainly support. The only one is SHARE, which used to be a great organization until it became closely aligned with the Warriors. Perhaps it will return to its heritage and again earn more support. |
| Come on, Jay! Live a little! | Padre
Jan 2, 2004 12:31 PM | | |
| Only for members? | donkey
Jan 2, 2004 12:51 PM | | In the next two months, there are trail maintenance days on Holy Jim, Trabuco, West Horse, Joplin, and Chiquita/San Juan. These trails are hardly hidden, and are widely used by mtbers as well as hikers, etc. |
| Ranger Jay..you're killing me! | Andy aka Rut
Jan 2, 2004 3:20 PM | | 26'er chiming in.
You are correct that we are not IMBA affiliates. We do however have the same goal that IMBA has. We want to keep the trails open for our kids to bike on too. We are just attempting to do it in another way. Responsible trail use is responsible trail use. Sure there are some jerks on 4x4's and motorcycles; there are also lots of jerks on bikes. If everyone was responsible (from trash to noise pollution) would there be any problems? The trick is to teach responsibility.
The high majority of our trail maintenances are open for the public; infact we would love to get others to help out. We do not hide trail entrances, in fact we put up all the posts showing the trails in the local mountains. There is another group of riders that do some trail work in the Santa Ana's and the trails that they do work on are not for the intermediate riders. They are for the experts. It takes the authorities hours to get to the remote locations (unless they use a helo.) I know of one trail that is "hidden" but if you do some research (in a book or the enternet) you can find it. By keeping the trail "hidden" it is staying a singletrack-a real singletrack.
Our leader... Chris. He is politally active, he speaks strong words and does his research. He is extremely knowledgeable and is rarely wrong when it comes to fighting for trail use. Are his posts long and sometimes hard to read? Yes, but if you take the time to read all of it, you will have a hard time arguing against him. www.warriorssociety.com
SHARE Mountain Bike Club...
SHARE had 6 members only two years ago. The last president (who stepped down after 2 years) was able to get the club up to over 200 members. He is a member of the Warrior's Society. I am a member of both as well; in fact I am a board member of SHARE. SHARE has done great things with the Warrior's Society. BTW, the new president of SHARE is also a Warrior.
Fast on Slow Horse (yes, I'm a singlespeeder)
Andy aka rut |
| It comes down to one basic disagreement | RangerJay
Jan 2, 2004 4:36 PM | | Mountain bikers share more goals and methods with hikers than with those driving 4x4s. Thus, education is key. Because of past confrontational situations, huge organizations like the Sierra Club are anti-mountain despite the fact so much of their membership bikes. We should be aligned with them instead of fighting them. While the extreme downhillers often damage trails, they rarely venture far afield and, like downhill skiers, deserve some dedicated place to play. My feeling is the Warriors are doing a disservice to mountain biking by aligning politically with those whose interpretation of wilderness is far less benign. This is probably the wrong venue to continue this discussion, and we have all made points.
With the rare exception, I respect those who are members in both the Warriors and SHARE. They all mean well and many, such as Andy, certainly ride well. But I feel the tactics of the organizations are in error. Not the goals, but the tactics. The methods expoused by IMBA are more closely in alignment with my beliefs. I'll certainly admit the the Warriors provide a service and certainly won't condemn all their methods nor activities. I just have a beef with one issue that I think could eventually cause major harm to our cause.
As for Vision Quest, one other item turned me off. While I was pedaling well behind the "fast" guys last year, I couldn't believe how many empty gel packets and bar wrappers were being strewn about the trails. While I know it was the job of volunteers to follow and pick them up, it really annoyed me how many participants thought it was cool to just leave their trash all over the place. There were many trail users who saw the debris and I was somewhat embarrassed to be a mountain biker that day.
Sorry for the long diatribe. But I had a pleasant outting planned today trailering my grandson around some easy trails. Instead, it's a raining here and that's not acceptable for hauling a toddler around. Guess I'm a bit grumpy. |
| No need for arguements... | Andy aka Rut
Jan 3, 2004 8:12 AM | | Sorry to hear you think we are doing a disservice to mountain bikers and the area we protect; by protect I mean keeping it open for us to use. The Santa Ana's would have been closed 2 years ago if IMBA was incharge of the area. It took a fight, almost a war, to keep it open and it was Chris's works, words and the man hours that the Warrior's Society put in that kept it open. No offence meant to IMBA, they just use a different method to get things done.
As for the VQ and empty gel packets and bar wrappers. As one of the "fast guys" I never once have seen a goo wrapper or other trash from the "fast guys." Most of the experts and pro's know not to just throw them out on the trail. Most others do as well. It is not the responsibility of the volunteers to clean up after the riders; it is the responsibility of the riders themselves to do it. The volunteers are there to assist. Of course we also do some cleaning as well. Just out of curiousity, have you been to any of the Big Bear races??? Talk about trash; I'm talking about the trail, the spectators and the parking lot. We try to educate, but just like with every group of trail users, some don't listen. BTW, if you were embarrassed to be a mountain biker because of the trash, you should have made a point to the Warrior's and picked up the trash and dumped it off at my feet at the end of the race. That would have made a big statement.
Regardless of the above, I hope you will give it another try. Enjoy the sun today...I'm off to San Juan for some fun.
andy |
| That would be sweet, Shiggy! SoCal needs some green! | Padre
Jan 1, 2004 6:05 PM | | |
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