|   Beginner upgrade $mistake$ - M765 not the same as M756 | Cruiser
Jan 8, 2004 1:42 PM | |
Well it seems that it is not a good idea to order Shimano XT disk hubs online when you can't see a picture and you don't have a description.
I ordered Avid disc brakes and Shimano XT M765 front disc hubs to convert four family bikes to front disc brakes.
On the WEB site there was no picture and no description. I made an assumtion that these were standard 6 bolt disc hubs, since I thought the new splined mount Shimano disc rotors were only available in XTR version.
Mistake.
The correct part is a M756 XT front disc hub. Seems that Shimano has now introduced the new splined mount disc rotors into the XT level of componentry, and I ordered the hubs that go with them.
Curious that the part numbers are almost identical, except that the last two numbers are transposed. It is almost as if they were trying to confuse people. Also, I am a bit disappointed, that the bike shop did not clue into my error, when I ordered. They are supposed to be the experts. I did order by phone, and I talked to an actual person. It is not as if I just filled out a WEB page order form.
So now I have to ship the hubs back, and I get dinged with a 15% re-stocking fee, plus the shipping cost.
At least I can be grateful, that it is winter and -27C. It will be months before we can ride again. There is plenty of time to sort things out.
Live and learn.
Cruiser |
| Why is it... | fred³
Jan 8, 2004 2:22 PM | | when someone orders something either online or over the phone they assume the folks at the other end know what they'll need? Since you never mention that you told whoever you ordered from what you had/need why should they question what you tell them? Aren't you responsible for what you say?
It's not like I mean to be a hardass, but there are a whole generation of folks out there who think it's everyone else's responsibility to get things right other than themselves and although it's nice to hear you say live and learn you still(in your post) blame the company for not knowing that you're incompetent when it comes to doing your own research and finding out what you need.
Now if you had said I have these disc brakes in mind can you fix me up with the proper hubs I'd see your point. You admit to assuming and I have to give you credit for at least doing that, but since that is all you did the whole thing is actually your fault. *shrug* Me? I'd have asked if they have a restocking fee too.
Try Speedgoat. A bit more expensive, but free shipping. |
| Er...I can see both sides, here, Fred... | AK Ken
Jan 8, 2004 3:03 PM | | and my initial reaction to your reaction is that it might be a slight over reaction to his actions.
He did say he ordered Avid brakes at the same time, right? The heads up shoprat could have been of some use there, I would think.
I just didn't get the vibe that he was blaming the world for his mistake, and the confusion seems unnecessary if the company had their act together, too.
Ken |
| Do you have some need to vent? | Cruiser
Jan 8, 2004 4:55 PM | |
Feeling a need to vent at something, are we?
"Whole generations" you say?
I made it quite clear that it was my mistake.
I said I was "disappointed" that the bike shop did not pick up on it, not that I blamed them.
My point was that the inexperienced should be careful when ordering bike parts on line, similar part numbers and unexpected features can be a problem for a beginner.
Cruiser |
| Hold up, I partially blame the shop... | Damion
Jan 9, 2004 1:03 AM | | He ordered FOUR sets of avid BBDB's, and FOUR sets of disc hubs, right? If I recieved that order at my shop, I'd confirm that the brakes and hubs are meant to work together. He did order FOUR sets of each. Now, granted, the technology is changing, but I would at least waive the re-stiocking fee if you had ordered from us. After all, as a shop rep, The shop IS responsible for what I say/do while on duty. If I make a deal that is "too good" they stand behind me, and they do the same when I make a mistake. That is part of doing business. |
| Hold up, I partially blame the shop... | Cruiser
Jan 9, 2004 8:03 AM | | I appreciate your sentiment, and I think that your competence, attention to detail, and customer management practices, are the sort of things one hopes for, when dealing with a shop. My point is that you can't count on it.
I personally feel, that all shop personnel should be as careful and customer focused as you. One would hope that they would also be more knowledgeable about the products they sell. Shimano is not exactly some lesser known product line.
Still, double checking for the customer, which you discuss, is only productive, if the customer makes an ordering mistake in the first place. In the end, the person ordering leaves themselves vulnerable to such problems, if they do not take the time to school themselves. Like Fred said, it does not hurt to ask if you are ordering the right thing. That is a point well taken.
I spent a great deal of time researching all the other parts that I ordered, but neglected to properly research the hubs.
I also orderd four forks at the same time, and I did ask if the forks and disc brakes were compatible, even though I was certain that they were. I mentioned that there was no picture of the hubs on the ordering page (picture unavailable), and that there was no description. I should have asked outright if the hubs were compatible with the brakes.
Being uninformed, I expected that there was no need to ask about the hubs since, as I understand it, all bicycle disc brake rotors use standard six bolt mounts, except certain Shimano brake rotors, which I thought were only available in the XTR group.
Like I said, live and learn.
Bottom line, if you cover your ass, you won't have anything shoved up it. You can't rely on the shop to correct your mistakes when ordering over the phone or online. Clearly, if I walked into a shop and said "Install disc brakes on four bikes for me", I would not have had this problem. It was my desire to save money and my belief that I knew
enough to proceed on my own, that got me into trouble.
Further, I am not certain that I expect the shop to waive the re-stocking fee. It would be nice, but I was the one who made the mistake. I bought from them because they have lower prices. They operate with lower prices by charging a restocking fee for returns, rather than passing those costs on to everyone, with higher prices. I would rather they continue that practice, since I expect to be much more careful when ordering in the future, and hope to benefit from lower pricing over the long haul. In fact, the price they gave me on the forks and brakes was excellent, so that in the end, even with the ordering mistake, I come out well; just not as well as I expected.
(FYI... Marzocchi MX Pro ETA 120mm - $295 each, Avid 160mm - $70 each)
At this point I am just thankful that the problem was not with a more expensive order and higher shipping costs. It could have been much worse. This may be a small price to pay, for the lesson learned.
Now, if others can benefit from my experience, and save themselves some grief, then my personal cost may serve to help others as well.
Cheers, Cruiser |
| I'd politely ask them to waive the restock fee | innergel
Jan 9, 2004 10:08 AM | | Esp. if you are going to be buying the "correct" parts from them. The restocking fee is there to discourage returns from people who buy something, and then return it because they decided that they didn't like it, or something similar. If the parts are something that are fast movers, then the shop won't have to eat them.
If you buy a lot of stuff from this LBS, then they should take care of you on this deal. |
| Venting? Moi? Nope... | fred³
Jan 9, 2004 12:14 PM | | more like you were. As for your taking the blame you do it in such a roundabout manner that it's tough to nail down with your disappointment in the store not being able to read your mind.
Yeah. Whole generations. Rather a blatantly overstated, but I was taught that if I screwed up I wasn't to allude to it possibly being someone elses fault and that you did do that by stressing your disappointment in the bike shop. Figures though. Most folks aren't going to post that it's their own fault.
If you want to blame it on inexperience(which I agree is the real culprit) then leave off the tentative finger pointing.
Hey just my .02. Doesn't make you a bad person. |
| Say what?! | Cruiser
Jan 9, 2004 5:15 PM | | What is this some kind of personal attack?
You say that that does not make me "a bad person", you were "raised" to believe something, I expect people to read my mind, "most folks aren't".
What the heck is all this crap?
Have you considered therapy?
I find a good ride to be very therapeutic. Why don't you go take a nice long ride off a 1000 foot drop. See how your components hold up.
Cruiser |
| Go, Cruiser! | Damion
Jan 9, 2004 6:46 PM | | I am glad that you are looking on your ordering experence that way. I regularly ship parts to the Bush (outer communities) in Alaska, and need to be sure of what is being shipped. @nd day air does not apply. Again, it does not take a genius to know if someone is ordering 4 forks, 4 front disc hubs, and 4 disc brakes, they are meant to work together. The re-stocking fee does not apply, in my opinion. Good riding, and enjoy the discs. I will never go back. |
| If you ask me, they screwed up. | Kapusta
Jan 11, 2004 9:03 AM | | If I were a bike shop and someone ordered an ISIS bottom bracket and an LX crankset I would be completely negligent if I did not throw up a red flag. I would offer to take care of covering the cost of swaping it out. Come on, you ordered 4 sets of disk brakes, and four disk hubs. OF COURSE THEY ARE GOING TO BE USED TOGETHER! Sinse when is the customer supposed to know more about the product than the business selling it?
But you are smart to realise that it is often the case that the people selling this stuff don't know crap about what they sell, and you should learn all you can and assume they know nothing.
Kapusta |
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