|   Magura vs Hope | Jekyll
Jan 8, 2002 5:52 PM | | I just bought a cannondale jekyll 800 ( the best bike EVER ) which had some magura julies on em. I am not impressed at all with the performance of these brakes, i had v brakes that worked better.
In the near future, i am probally going to upgrade to either Hope XC 4s or Magura Marta's.
Which would y'all reccomend??
piece out,
ThE JeKyLl |
| well, first off...... | heff®
Jan 8, 2002 6:03 PM | | ....how long have you been riding the Julies? They DO take a bit of a break in period. Mine took a few hard rides to gain power.
I would ride them for awhile longer, give them time to bed in, and if you still don't like them, I would go for the Martas.
heff® |
| Correct ............... | Mike T.®
Jan 8, 2002 6:21 PM | | .....setup and long break-in are all important with your brakes. Please don't judge then until you have both. Magura's site has the setup info you need.
Mike T. (mcm #717) |
| Correct ............... | Winno
Jan 9, 2002 2:08 PM | | I have Hope Mini's and after laying down NZ$2000 on them and new wheels I must admit that if I didn't expect and know that they would get better when bedded and "burnt" in, I would have been very disappointed. My HS33's were better than my Hopes at first.
I would expect this to be the case with almost all makes. Even car rotors and pads can take a bit to bed in b4 working best.
Get that mirror finish on them rotors first and then judge them b4 you do anything about changing them. |
| whoah.... | Jm
Jan 8, 2002 6:53 PM | | Ok, despite my hatred of Cdale(have seen several broken,the most specacular FPs rear shock BLOWING UP on his jekyll, very amusing) I will offer my input;
I would rather go with the Hope Mini 185 if it was me, the mini us now their lightest brake when configured with smaller rotors, the 185s add a little weight, but offer more power, which is hard to argue with. 165s would probably be fine though. Anyhow, one plus with hopes is their "self bleed" feature, basically no tools, syringes, adaptors, nothing but a piece of tubing to catch the excess. Ive personally seen why this is nice when a buddy ripped his lines out, and kinked one at another time(non-standard hope lines though), he only had to cut the line, add more fluid, and rebleed, all of which were done on the spot, nice.
I can't really speak on the maguras, a lot of my friends used to use Louise brakes, but switched because of lack of power, another friend uses Gustavs and likes them, but they are old and falling apart. Magura support is very good, and they are making good brakes these days. Magura levers are some of the best feeling(as far as modulation) in the business.
Hope support is also very good, they usually help you out and send you things you require very fast. |
| whoah.... | SoCARider
Jan 8, 2002 9:46 PM | | Does Hope offer the 185 rotors for the rear also?
I heard 185 is for the front only.
How do you like Mini's compared to Hayes? Some say it has the same power with more modulation as Hayes. |
| yes it looks like 165 is the biggest in the rear, however; | Jm
Jan 9, 2002 8:28 AM | | 165 in the rear is going to be plenty, having a 185 in the front will really give you good power and control, again it is not critical and I know many happy Mini owners with 165 front and rear.
I have tried the minis only a couple times, basically they have that "hope feel"(I run Hope DH4 brakes myself). The hayes are very powerfull but very on and off, I don't know if the Mini is more powerfull than Hayes, I suspect it is not, but the "hope feel", the modulation, makes me feel like I have more control. |
| yeah, Crack-n'-Fail | firecrotch
Jan 8, 2002 11:07 PM | | |
| Rear shock isn't Cannondale.... | Monte
Jan 9, 2002 6:12 PM | | What does the rear shock have to do with Cannondale? Fox, yes, Cannondale, no.
Monte |
| it IS cannondale | Jm
Jan 9, 2002 7:50 PM | | pretty much the onl maker that runs a trunion mounted fox, and one of the reasons it blew up, because it was not bolted against the frame so as to keep pressure on the threads, instead the internal pressure blew it out and exploded it, it would have been a lot harder for it to happen with a regular mounted fox. |
| Really? | Monte
Jan 10, 2002 8:18 AM | | Still Fox. They should have made the appropriate design changes.
Monte |
| I agree | Coolhand
Jan 10, 2002 12:57 PM | | While C-Dale has its issues- this is a Fox/LBS/operator Error issue.
If you insist on bashing C-Dale-- try this phrase with any dealer: "CODA Expert Disk Brakes" and watch them grind their teeth.
Coolhand |
| I would not go with the XC4s.... | SS_MB-7
Jan 9, 2002 6:29 AM | | I'm a Hope fan (2 pairs of C2 Pros and am now demo'ing a pair of Minis), but I would not go with the XC4s. Instead, if you are looking at Hope, go with the Minis. They are just as light as the XC4s, but are an open-system, which provides automatic pad adjustment and fluid expansion/contraction. The XC4s use an on-the-fly adjustment knob since it is a closed system to manually compensate for these. This feature is great on the C2s (also closed), but due to the tiny nature of the XC4s, you'll be using this feature excessively.
I have yet to try the Martas, but they are getting great reviews so far. The Martas will be ~0.30 lbs lighter than the Minis.
Ride Hard,
Mike B. |
| Advertised weight.... | Volkov
Jan 9, 2002 8:36 PM | | Comparing advertised weights, the Mini's are 380gm versus 350 for Marta. If you run the 145mm disc in the rear of the Mini (which is still bigger than the stock XC4) then you save a further 30 grams. Therefore, the Mini's are only 30-60gms heavier than the Martas. That's .06-.13 pounds aka nothing.
Volkov |
| Ah, the joys of "advertised weights".... | SS_MB-7
Jan 10, 2002 6:16 AM | | Ah, the joys of "advertised weights".
I have personally weighed a set of Minis (165/165) and they are:
Front (caliper, lever, line, fluid, bolts, etc) = 271g
Front (caliper, lever, line, fluid, bolts, etc) = 287g
Rotor (165mm, bolts) = 147g
Total = 852g
Now, if you use a 165/145 combo, you'll likely save 25-30g. So, the total for a 165/145 Mini is ~822g.
Now, Charles Coker (a long-time and reliable MTBR poster) weighed a front Marta (with everything) on a digital scale and it weighed 12.6oz (357g), as shown here:
As an approximation for the rear Marta, I've calculated the difference between the front/rear lever/caliper assemblies for the Hope's and at a set of Formula B4s to be 16g and 15g, respectively. As such, using the "confirmed" front Marta weight of 357g and adding 16g (for the extra house length and fluid for the rear), yields an approximate rear Marta weight of 373g. This yields a total Marta weight of 357g (front) and 373g (rear) = 730g vs 822g for the Minis - 92g heavier than the Martas.
Ride Hard,
Mike B. |
| Could have seen this post coming a mile away with his...... | KMan
Jan 10, 2002 10:28 AM | | "manufacture weight" statement.
Damn Rookies
All in fun though
KMan |
| You talking to me? Are YOU talking to ME?... | volkov
Jan 10, 2002 9:52 PM | | I think the word you were looking for is the infamous "target" weight. AKA if we're lucky, one out of a hundred will actually meet the advertized poundage we claim. Can you say Rock-Shox? AND if you really get sticky,you know that the comparative weights only count if they were weighed on the same properly calibrated scale. Not doubting anyone's veracity, but I know a guy here who is always spouting on about his ultralight parts which he weighs on his scale. Thing is, his weights are often 10% or more lighter than the wieght the manufacturer claims. Either he's really lucky, or the parts manufacturers marketing guys suddenly got honest or MOST LIKELY his scale is WRONG. This whole weight thing is really just a ball-park, and reflects orders of magnitude. There's the whole issue of manufacturing variances such that ten products coming off the line will all have a different weight. Unfortunately, it's very hard to produce reliable numbers for this stuff, so often the best one can settle for is comparing the advertised weights unless the company had previously shown itself to be completely unreliable. Can you say Marzocchi(I think they weigh their forks on space shuttle flghts)
My point had been that there was not a huge weight difference between running the Hope vs the Marta. |
| You talking to me? Are YOU talking to ME?... | KMan
Jan 11, 2002 9:26 AM | | Referencing a Seinfeld Quote (Soup Nazi episode) Love that show!
Now to quote you "there was not a huge weight difference between running the Hope vs the Marta" That may fly on this forum or the "general" forum, but many weight weenies review all the sites and I knew MB-7 or one of the others would have a hayday with your original post. 1/4 lb difference between brake systems is pretty significant for XC racing, not so much for freeriding type situation.
MOST manufactures under estimate their product weights some much more so than others. Pretty much cannot rely on them for any kind of accuracy. If you believe the mfg weights and sum the totals parts of your bike using those "listed" weights we all would be riding 21 lb FS Disc ready bikes.
Reality says weigh the parts for some real numbers.
As far a quality control and differences in runs, if the mfgs are comming up with some of the weight issues differences w/ out design or raw material changes, they are having some serious QC problems. I know because I worked for over 5 years w/ QC and measuring instruments and know what can be done and when there are production errors.
KMan |
| Actually, it's Taxi Driver with DeNiro. | xerxes
Jan 11, 2002 7:49 PM | | I think you're missing half the movie references on Seinfeld if you don't know that one! :-) |
| so what you meant to say above... | volkov
Jan 10, 2002 9:58 PM | | was that the weight difference is .2-.25 lbs and not .3lbs PFFFFT!!
Thanks for the post because it did answer my question of whether anyone had actually weighed the Martas
Volkov |
| so what you meant to say above... | KMan
Jan 11, 2002 9:28 AM | | The martas were actuall weighed as was stated (front only) so an estimate was made on the rear brake generating an estimate for the total system. Weight would also depend on your size bike as a small frame bike would use less hose and fluid that a large frame....But I am sure you already knew that!
KMan |
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