|   Avid Installation (heff and Sparticus or others) | Big Boy
Jan 9, 2002 6:04 PM | | O.K. SO I just installed my new avid mechanicals (just switched from Avid v-brakes). The installation was relatively easy as rumored but I ran into a few problems/questions. I tried to follow the Avid instructions, the NAD instructions and the instructions from a back issue of Mountain Bike Mag (Sept 2001).
Some Issues:
1)I could not get the inboard dial dialed in enough to set the rotor to the so called "1/3 2/3" spacing within the caliper. The inboard dial didn't seem move the inboard pad that much over even when turned all the way clockwise. Therefore, the rotor is not sitting close to the outside caliper wall (rather, it is sitting closer to the inner caliper wall. What is the problem with this? There was no problem with spacing of the caliper on the bracket attached to the frame and fork FYI.
2)The rotor is basically true on the hub. There is some (less than a mm) wobble of the rotor which, when I spun the wheel, caused very faint touching of the rotor to the pads. Is this acceptable? FYI, the rim and hub are brand new (Chris King Discotek on mavic x618 with the appropriate spacer, avid straight jacket cables and housing) The rotor was installed properly with even bolting of the rotor. The wobble is almost imperceptable and I assume this is OK for function.
3)I took a 2 second test ride to check out the stopping power and feel and found two issues: I can't lock up the wheels (ie: the brake lever (Avid SD 7) when fully compressed won't grab hard enough). Is this a matter of tightening up the cable? If I adjust the calipers with the dials or the cable at the barrel adjusters the rotor will hit the pads more when not engaging the brake. There is no slop in the lever. THe caliper begins to move (rotate)as soon as I move the lever (which I like)but the brake does not begin to engage until half the motion of the lever is used. I do understand that it takes a few rides for the brakes to brake in and then the true stopping power will reveal itself, however, right now the brakes don't seem like they could stop the bike fast enough if at all. How normal is this? Will is get better or does an adjustment need to be done now.
4) The brake pads do not contact the entire rotor surface. There is a 1 mm of unused rotor surface (toward the center of the rotor). Should I remove spacers on the caliper mounting bracket to bring the caliper closer (ie: toward the axle) or is 1 mm ok?
Thanks in advance for addressing some of these issues. The brake lever feel is great, and I am sure with some adjustments, the brakes will perform as well for me as they do for all of you.
Thanks
BB
Some other specs: Rocky Mountain Vertex 2000 frame with marzocchi z2 atom 80 fork. |
| the answers........... | heff®
Jan 9, 2002 7:47 PM | | First, you've got yourself turned around. The rotor needs to be closer to the inboard side of the caliper.....the 1/3 of the installation. The space between the outside of the caliper and the rotor is 2/3......meaning you have it right. More space to the outside.
Some rotor wobble is acceptable, but you might want to loosen the bolts a bit, then retorque them properly. Improper torque will leave the outside of the rotor a bit wobbly. Not a big deal though, it won't affect the braking.
A two second test ride isn't enough to "bed in" the pads. The brakes won't reach full power until you ride a few times. Mine took 40 or so miles to completely reach full power. That's actually faster than most other disk brakes I've used. Ride them for awhile, they'll break in.
The pads are contacting the entire rotor surface, the pads are a touch smaller. 1mm of unused rotor on the inside edge is completely normal.
heff® |
| heff's got it right as usual. Couple things to be aware of
| sparticus
Jan 9, 2002 9:47 PM | | First, the reason you want the caliper to be spaced slightly closer to the centerline of the frame is this: as the inside/stationary pad wears, the outer/moving pad will deform the rotor more and more as it presses the rotor toward the inner/stationary pad. Failure to dial the inner/stationary pad to accommodate for its wear could eventually cause the rotor to rub against the inside of the caliper's rotor slot unless the 1/3-2/3 spacing is observed. It's no big deal if your rotor runs right through the center of the caliper's rotor slot, the thing to do is simply remember to dial the inner/stationary pad frequently to reconcile pad wear.
Second, your rotor is easily bent by hand to true it up. Start with small efforts. The first time I trued my rotor by hand I made it five times worse than it already was, only in the opposite direction. These things are quite malleable. (Although 1mm play is within tolerance.)
Third, never use the brake lever's barrel adjusters to accommodate for pad wear. Always use the red knobs on the caliper instead. This is very important because if you use the lever's barrel adjusters instead of the red knobs, you are effectively shortening the cable. This is equalivant of activating the caliper's actuating arm slightly every time you dial the barrel adjuster. Eventually you will run out of actuating arm movement before your brakes reach full power. Make those adjustments via the red knobs only -- this way you are actually adjusting the pads, not "preloading" the brake.
Finally, you'll get full power in a ride or two. And don't worry about a millimeter or two of vertical pad-to-rotor misalignment.
--Spary |
| And my two cents... | shiggy©®
Jan 9, 2002 11:59 PM | | I have given up on the 1/3-2/3 thing. I just move the inner pad in until it rubs on the rotor and then back it off one click. Then I adjust the outer pad to get the feel I want. I tend to adjust it closer during break in and looser after.
It seems that some on the inner knobs are hard to turn. I would remove the wheel and work it in and out until it loosens up.
It sounds like you have the cable tension set correctly.
Sometimes realigning the caliper will reduce rotor rub, but I would not worry about it until the brake beds in.
-shiggy NADS #69 |
| Man you guys should work for Avid....... | jdcamb
Jan 10, 2002 4:27 AM | | You guys rock.......jdcamb 1 freekin proud NAD |
| Yeah ....get a job (nm) | NADS #1
Jan 10, 2002 2:16 PM | | . |
| Dennis, you misspelled "great" | sparticus
Jan 10, 2002 3:23 PM | | You accidently wrote "get a" instead of "great." No prob, we knew what you meant.
=)
--Spary |
| Dennis, I just shipped your tires this afternoon... | shiggy©®
Jan 10, 2002 3:39 PM | | ...UPS ground. You should have them next week. |
| Final comment... | Big Boy
Jan 10, 2002 6:01 AM | | I want to be a NAD!!! Thank you so much for your assistance. It is people like you that allowed me to build up my dream bike customly over the last year. It took almost 12 months to get all the parts I wanted and install them myself. You guys have been invaluable in your advice on brakes et all for the past several months. I truly appreciate it!
Thanks again
Aaron |
| You are Welcome! | shiggy©®
Jan 10, 2002 9:44 AM | | GO NADS!!! |
| Likewise, and do
| sparticus
Jan 10, 2002 1:41 PM | | .join NADS. Initiation rules state that new members must buy a round of ale for the existing membership, and we are a VERY thirsty group.
--Spary
b (((*burp*))) |
| Round of ale.. | Big Boy
Jan 10, 2002 4:28 PM | | Which brings up one last question, where do heff@ and Sparticus and shiggy and Mike T live? Northeast? I guess I haven;t been paying attention to the type of riding and conditions you ride in. I live in NYC which is probably far from where you all live.
By the way, I made a small adjustment on both cables on the discs and took the bike for a quick spin today (fifty degree weather in manhattan!). By the end of the ride I could tell that the brakes were getting a better grip and settling in. When I get some film, I'll post some pics of the new bike for all to comment on.
Thanks again,
BB |
| Mike T, heff, shiggy and I all get together
| sparticus
Jan 10, 2002 5:11 PM | | .about once or twice a week wearing lab coats and thick glasses to dissect various brake components and argue about which ones are best. We rent laboratory space someplace midway between our homes (like Las Vegas, etc) and try to hit the hot spots as long as we're "makin' da scene." This is tough because heff & SeenYour Tea are right coasters and shig & I are left coasters. But it's worth all the charter flights, and this way we always get to sample ales from numerous parts of the country (should I say "countries?"), a factor which contributes further to the general worldliness of our personalities.
By the way, heff is a one-eyed midget who's appeared in several porn mags.
--Spary |
| awwwwwwww maaaaaaannnnnn....... | heff®
Jan 11, 2002 1:22 AM | | I tole ya not to TELL anyone!!! At least you didn't tell them about the transexual part. Whoops.
heff® |
| I lives.............. | Mike T.®
Jan 10, 2002 7:31 PM | | ....not too far from you - about 12 hrs drive - in SW Ont Canada. The mountains here are sump'n else! ;o) |
| Hey Mike T...... | jdcamb
Jan 11, 2002 4:20 AM | | How far from Woodstock ON do you live?......jdcamb |
| Hey jaydee................... | Mike T.®
Jan 11, 2002 4:25 AM | | .....how FAR from Woodstock Ont? I live IN Woodstock Ont - right up on the north edge against the lake with the trails 100' from my door and within freewheeling distance.
Pedro's here too - a mile east of moi.
Mike T. (mcm #717) |
| he lives......... | heff®
Jan 11, 2002 6:44 AM | | ........a couple o' hours from ya, in Rochester. I'm about 6 hours south of him, I'm planning on coming up his way in February, maybe March, and we'll come up yer way.
heff® |
| South? | Mike T.®
Jan 11, 2002 6:51 AM | | You shipped yer brakes from CT! That ain't south of Rochester! Not in my atlas anyway. :o\
Mike (map junkie) T. (mcm #717) |
| errrrrrr............. | heff®
Jan 11, 2002 4:34 PM | | ......Rochester is jus' across the lake from you. CT is 6 hours south and slightly east of there.
Turn yer map over!
heff® |
| Rochester is............... | Mike T.®
Jan 11, 2002 6:51 PM | | ......right across the lake from Kingston Ont. I'm dead west of Rochester and PA is south of Rochester. I would say CT is a hell of a lot east and very slightly south. You turn your map sideways!
Mapmeister Mike T. |
| no no no no no nooooooo | heff®
Jan 11, 2002 7:50 PM | | I knows where you is......I was tryin' to tell ya that I'm 6 hours south of jdcamb!
heff® |
| Ahhhh now I.................. | Mike T.®
Jan 12, 2002 3:26 AM | | .....understand! You're either..............
1. In PA and not CT (PA's south of Roch NY) or....
2. You're a woman and don't have a sense of direction!
Yep I'm ok now!! :o) |
| no no no no no........you......... | heff®
Jan 12, 2002 9:17 PM | | ......didn't read Sparty's post.
I'm a black gay midget transexual trapeze artist with a shoe fetish. You oughta see me in spandex and high heels.
heff® (STILL south and east of Rochester, and farther south and east of Casa Tea) |
| I go there all the time! | jdcamb
Jan 11, 2002 9:16 AM | | I have relatives there. They live off Reg, Rd. #2 (Dundas St). I also have relatives in Lyden east of Brantford too. Ever eat at Mels Fish & Chips? Cool town. May be there tommorrow/sunday if my Mom feels up to it. Got much snow on the ground? Me and Heff are coming your way soon too. Haven't dailed in a date yet though........jdcamb |
| Ho lee jayyy zuss. | Mike T.®
Jan 11, 2002 9:49 AM | | Yep Hwy 2 Dundas is the main drag of course. I knows where Lynden is too. Mel's? Heck when I came to this country 34 yrs ago that was the first eating place I was ever in. I work with the guy who used to run it (27+ yrs ago) as he is the son in law of Tom Baird the late original owner.
One the wall still -
"Mom and Dad and little nippers are all hearty fish and chippers"
We got about 2" of melting snow left with lots of bare spots. The trails will be muddy. I'll find out right after this post.
Hey if you're coming here on the weekend then gimmy a buzz. At least we could meet at Tim's if nothing else. I'll be working Sunday but I can be visited there too no sweat.
See ya
Mike T. (mcm #717) |
| Re: Round of ale.. | sparticus
Jan 11, 2002 8:57 AM | | Okay, it's tomorrow. Everything's cool. I've had my bit of fun at heffer's expense. Party's over. It's always good to know who your friends are.
So you know where eMTea and heff live. well, shig and I live about 20 minutes from one another in the heart of beautiful, wet western Oregon. I'm in Eugene and shig's in Veneta, which is a teensie weensie little in-bred town made up primarily of meth-cookin' teeth-missin' butt-scratchin' dope-smokin' out-of-work loggers.
Which reminds me of a joke which, due to its theme is usually reserved for late October recitation. But what the heck, I don't get too many chances to tell it so anyway here goes.
Q= What do folks in Veneta do on Halloween?
A= Pump kin!
=)
Ta ta,
Spary |
| One of the better replies I have read in this forum.nm | Big Boy
Jan 11, 2002 10:25 AM | | nm. |
| |
