|   Sort of a Poll - Who's got a Motocross Background? | my name is Nobody...
Sep 4, 2001 6:30 PM | | Whether you know me or not, here's the skinny:
I've spent 18 years in the Bicycle Business and am now working towards my Masters in Business Economics down here in Sunny SB.
I am combining many different sources for my thesis including general(DotCom Greed-a-Thon, Global Market Economy fluctuations, sliding currencies and their effect on tenuous product demand) to the specific (Schwinn's 3rd Chapter 11 in less than 20 years, the disappearance of Miyata, Nishiki, Sturmey Archer, Divestiture of WB's Bicycle division, LDI's separation of Answer and Manitou, Fox shifting production to Taiwan, Marzocchi focusing on OEM low-ball bidding vs Rock Shox etc etc etc)
My hypothetical 4-part question to MX'rs is this:
1) If you bought a MX rig, mostly stock, say a Yamaha YZ125 for instance, and took it off road and hit the dunes, ran a couple mini supercross courses, did it somewhere within the first year developed a significant, but repairable, failure in the fork, the shock, the engine or the frame? (Y/N)
2) If (Y) to #1 - Did you get it taken care of by the dealership at no cost? (Y/N)
3) If (Y) to #2 - Did the mechanics at the dealership impress you with their technical competence? (Y/N)
4) If (Y) to #1 but (N) to #2 and/or #3 - Were you or your friends able to repair it yourselves to your satisfaction (no junk welding or mis-matched parts - something reliable) (Y/N)
Possible replies might look like this:
1-N
1-Y; 2-Y; 3-Y
1-Y; 2-N; 3-Y ($$$); 4-N
1-Y; 2-N; 3-N; 4-Y
Folks, we are going to see a significant down-turn in the 'specialty bicycle market' over then next two years. |
| re: Sort of a Poll - Who's got a Motocross Background? | D!CK CABESA
Sep 4, 2001 6:46 PM | | Wow that is a loaded question 1.NO 2. DUH!YES 3.MORE THAN A BIKE SHOP YES 3.YES |
| me... | $eth
Sep 4, 2001 6:50 PM | | Good guess, my last bike was a yz125 ;)
1)never anything like you say, for instance
forks/shock- were revalved/custom work by C-Cyle, never a problem.
Motor- did top end when I felt it needed it (bought the parts, rebuilt it myself)
frame- bent frame underneath pegs casing a double BAD, never got it fixed/didnt need repair
4)ya I was able to do it myself, besides the suspension work (which was purely performance/race gain, not reliablity really) |
| Since i was 8....... | Gutty
Sep 4, 2001 7:31 PM | | 1-N do all my own work anyway. Don't trust wrench's with my MTB or Moto, too many bad experiences.
Give me anything with 2 wheels. |
| Motocross, X-Country, Enduros | TNC
Sep 4, 2001 7:32 PM | | You know, I never thought about it in this manner, but upon reflection I'm amazed to realize that I had no failures during the first year's use on the 10 or so dirt motorcycles I've had in the past. I worked part-time at a local cycle shop for 15 years to pay for my habit, just like I do now at a bicycle shop. I raced all 3 of the above mentioned venues and did lots of riding for fun. I meticulously maintained my bikes and modified them quite a bit, but never had a serious problem during the first year of use. I bent a couple of pairs of forks which I was able to straighten, but those instances were my fault. I've got to say that I have not gotten that kind of service out of my full suspension bicycles that I've been riding since '96--I can recall two frame failures, a blown shock, and 2 fork recalls. I raced motorcycles from '74 to '94 without any of those issues. Working at a motorcycle shop as I did, I can say customer service definitely addressed the problems like you describe when they did occur. Honda, Kawasaki, and Husqvarna stood behind their products quite well at the shop. It's interesting you bring this up--I never thought about how reliable those dirt bikes are when compared to bicycles. As to the down-turn issue you mention, why are several of the "specialty bicycle" manufacturers like Titus, Santa Cruz, and Ellsworth doing well when biggies like Schwinn are crashing. Not arguing with you, but is it marketing, management, or both? You pose some interesting issues. |
| as an aside... | my name is Nobody...
Sep 4, 2001 7:47 PM | | The 'Specialty Bicycle Market" actually encompasses Trek on down to Ibis. When this generalization is being made, take into consideration the overall picture (which you and I would rather not, I would assume, under normal circumstances): The largest US bicycle retailer, by many orders of magnitude, is Sears.
I know, we all shake our heads and start the next sentence with "But..."
The last year that I have access to accurate numbers is 1997, but during that time, slighly more than 82% of ALL BICYCLES IN THE WORLD were sold through 'mass merchant retailers' from Sears to Sport Mart, Big 5, K-Mart, etc. In the USA alone, LBS's (including Supergo/Performance etc) sold about 10% of the bicycles in the US.
Now, Ellsworth, who has demonstrated growth over the past 3 years, probably accounts for less than 1/10th of a percent. This Niche, as it's referred to, is Boutique, which is a subset of 'Specialty' from the above description. Boutique has proven itself to be a static and unchanging market vis-a-vis unit sales (take a look at yourself with bikes - one 'Gucci' bike per year for instance [I averaged 2.66 Guccis] The one constant is you and me (and many of these board regulars.)
But, having sold at retail for more than a decade, I can tell you that the MAJORITY of the MINORITY (i.e.: most customers that actually go to an LBS) buy one bike every 5-7 years. You and I make up for the deficit.
Where I'm heading with this - the finite market's ending boundary is coming into sight. |
| yep | pmkn
Sep 4, 2001 9:21 PM | | nm |
| Yes and No ... | race
Sep 5, 2001 12:30 AM | | Been racing YZ250s for the last 12 years. My take is:
1. Yes and no. Some years the YZs ALL blew 3rd gear, other years they ALL cracked at the swingarm weld, breaking mid-speed fork valves, mismatched center or clutch side cases, etc. Other years there were no major problems.
2. Yes and no. Found out early on that there really is no warranty period on a 'for closed course competition' bike. Once it's out the door all bets are off. It's a racing machine. Whether the dealer took care of it often had more to do with how good your relationship was with them than anything else. Or how aware you were that the problem was widespread and not just your bike. Or your industry connections/sponsors. On some occasions Yamaha has quietly replaced a part at N/C ( 3rd gear ) and at other times it wouldn't ( cracked swingarms ).
3. NO. As to the competence of the average dealer wrench ... you don't want to know! My main MX riding bud has been a dealer wrench for 10+ years and he has told me every horror story you can imagine. Shops will seemingly hire any idiot off the street to wrench. It is really scary. Even at the dealer he works at ... he is often the only wrench there who knows how to do major jobs. He says he is constantly being called over to try to salvage another wrench's abortion. Often he is too busy with his own assigned bikes and the butchered FrankenBike goes back to the unsuspecting owner. You really are rolling the dice just taking your bike to the dealer unless you know the mechanic and his ability.
4. Home repairs ... again yes and no. Some problems could be corrected, others couldn't be short of replacing parts. Having a pro mechanic or an aerospace welder as friends usually helps, but not always. Not sure if that all fits into your answer matrix but there are just too many variables. |
| Agree with Race (more) | Rhino from WA
Sep 5, 2001 8:59 AM | | he pretty well sums up motorcyles and the attitude of warretny/owner responsibility. I cringe when some people complain about destroying some MTB parts. I know how to make a bike that would be very reliable.......but it would weigh about 100lbs. No more reliabilty issues or bending this or that. If you do something stupid/extreme and break something accept it as part of the cost of doing that stupid thing. You break you buy....sucks don't it. Rarely do you see a person going into a motocycle shop screaming about how cheap this certain bike was made and they want it warrentied. Everyone accepts that the stock carbon steal handlebars on a motorcycle are going to be toast the first time they lay it over. Or if you are pinned/WFO on a dry lake bed and you squeek the motor...time to fork up the money to fix it. If you are leaping sand dunes and bend the frame in a movie worthy crash...time to look for a new bike sans any warrenty.
Different attitudes definately. If I were to buy say a 150lbs motorcyle (and say a normal bike weighed 225lbs) then if I were to break something under engineered for the sake of weight then I should also accept the steep repair bills.
I say bring on the 100lbs DH bicycles!
Rhino from WA
PS- good morning everyone
Riding Dirtbikes since I was 5 (21 years) Mostly Harescrambles and Desert racing. Very little Motorcross racing. |
| re: Sort of a Poll - Who's got a Motocross Background? | DFÄ
Sep 5, 2001 4:12 AM | | I've never seen a MX bike sold with any type of warranty (expressed or implied). I have seen manufacturer's defects addressed (the infamous exploding 79 Maico hubs come to mind). I've seen geniuses in the back rooms. I've seen examples of mild autism too.
Interesting fork related story. I met Paul Turner in the Suzuki pit while he was wrenching on his brother Jim's bike for the 250 support class at the Canadian 500 GP in 75. Little did I know....... |
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