|   What was marz. thinking when they made the 888 ? | StinkyC
Dec 10, 2003 4:30 AM | | Sure its prob. a great fork ,and it looks great, but why did they make it so long ????
Looking at the specs. its 33mm longer A-C than a Shiver , Yes its with 10mm more travel , but still its almost a full inch longer assuming the same travel.
I know it can take a 3" Gazza ,and it has bolt-on crowns , but so has the Shiver . I could understand it if there was some structual/it-has-to-be-like-this-for-it-to-be-So-light reason , but its only , what? , less than 1/2 lbs lighter than the Shiver(wasnt it go-ride who posted weights?).
I.e. Kona specced the 04 Stab P with a 170mm 888 instead of the 190mm Shiver in 03.
Why so long ?
Cheers |
| I don't get it either......... | Cant Climb
Dec 10, 2003 5:39 AM | | Isn't the 888 going to have more moving and unsprung weight also....?.....the Shiver feels light for as heavy as it is....and you can set it up to be a high rider or set it up to drag your elbows on the ground.
CC. |
| Maybe the "upside down" vs. conventional? | TNC
Dec 10, 2003 5:58 AM | | Since we're just speculating here, maybe Marz is covering the marketplace with 2 options because a good many folks are leary or unknowledgeable about "upside down" forks. Motorcyclists may be more up to date with this fork technology, but a good many bicyclists may still be more comfortable with the conventional design of forks like the 888. One additional issue--what is the price of the 2 forks? Is there any notable savings? If not I'd guess it's strictly a marketing strategy. |
| re: What was marz. thinking when they made the 888 ? | KATSURAGI
Dec 10, 2003 6:11 AM | | ...easy ....they weren't thinking....... |
| just because the didn't make the fork for YOU.... | Bulldog
Dec 10, 2003 6:25 AM | | ...doesn't mean they won't sell out no problem. Yeah it's long. Other forks twist in a crash, or have poor damping, or blow seals like crazy, or need much more service. Everything is a trade-off. You pick the fork with the least amount of downsides for you.
I think people get most upset (like about the 888) when something gets to be this sooooo close to their idea of perfection, then they go off on these tantrums quoting millimeters and ounces. :) |
| a little birdy told me....... | gary/teamsally
Dec 10, 2003 7:07 AM | | i was talking to marzocchi last june about the 888 and the shiver and i was told that the interest/sales of the shiver were no where near what the expected....since its inception, the number of shiver orders had been declining which is why they basically stopped importing them. He did tell me that the interest had picked up recently but not enough to keep it as a staple in their line. My 2 cents....i have never been a huge fan of upside forks...too twisty i guess.....the couple of times i tried the shiver it felt a bit sluggish to me.....i have an 888, all be it, only for several months but i love it....im not too concerned about head angle and change in height...i switch quite often from a scream with 888 to an rfx with a z150...even to a truth with a z.1. it doesn't bother/effect me all that much
maybe they see the future as back to traditional fork design...seems to be a little easier to maintain both from a company and consumer side |
| Have any pics of your Scream you could post??? | D Buck
Dec 10, 2003 7:40 AM | | And what do you think of the 888? I'm thinking about getting one for my bighit. I don't think the height thing will be an issue. I run 24s. I was thinking that the 888 would put the angles back to what they were like when I was running 24/26 set-up.
Thanks
Dbuck |
| Have any pics of your Scream you could post??? | gary/team sally
Dec 10, 2003 2:01 PM | | d buck, aren't you coming to cpx next week ?? anyway, email me and i can send you some pics.......picture too big for this sight's liking |
| that's right I am, only nine days, I'll check it out then!!! nm | D Buck
Dec 10, 2003 5:20 PM | | |
| I think... | cantin03
Dec 10, 2003 8:13 AM | | The shiver is not a 3.0 ready fork. In my experience, you can't fit a gazz 3.0 without raising the lower crown over the spec. limit. The biggest tire you can fit without 'cheating' and having the 3mm secure clearance is a gazz 2.6 or a mich 2.8 (which sized 2.6).
That's what i think... |
| Candy Apple red Bullit | Pete.
Dec 10, 2003 8:31 AM | | That's what they were obviously thinking. |
| Maybe they were thinking.... | James : Go-Ride
Dec 10, 2003 9:04 AM | | A couple people have already mentioned why we think the 888 came to be. 1) Inverted forks twist. This isn't a huge problem (hasn't been for me and my Shiver...EVER) for some riders, but it is for others. 2) Tire clearance. This is specific to frames and stack height, but there are a lot of popular bikes out there with ridiculously tall head tubes that won't allow for use of a tire bigger than a 2.5 Maxxis, which isn't really that huge of a tire. And I don't think I have to go into the tire clearance issues with the Super T. 3) Weight. It is only a half-pound lighter than the Shiver, but for some racer guys (ie Scott and Krispy) a half-pound in a few different spots can get your 40+ pound bike under 40 pounds.
As for the excessive height of the fork, Marzocchi addressed that with the 170mm version. Most pro racer folk don't use 8" forks these days, so the 7" 888 will provide the right amount of travel, at the right weight, and at the right height (Axle-to-crown is actually 5mm shorter than on the Super T). ALSO, we are in the process of making crowns that will drop the fork approximately 30mm. If you guys and gals remember the Moriority pedals we used to sell, the same guy is making the crowns for us. The drawings look awesome, and they should be out late January. We're keeping the same offset as the current crowns so you can still run your stock top crown if you want.
Anyhoo, the 888R is pretty sick. And just so you know, the 888 does get a full 200mm of travel, where the Shiver bottoms at 173.
James
Go-Ride.com
801-474-0081 |
| Weird , my buddys Shiver gets full 190mm travel and ........ | StinkyC
Dec 10, 2003 11:00 AM | | my own 170mm Shiver also get the full 170mm (could be 173 )
I know u guys know yr stuff ,whenever there a comment by go-ride I always read it becuz u always provide good info . But are u sure u dont have 170mm cartridges in there ?
Will u still be able to put a 3" gazza in the 888 with yr new crown ?
cheers |
| Weird , my buddys Shiver gets full 190mm travel and ........ | James : Go-Ride
Dec 10, 2003 11:23 AM | | Sorry, that was supposed to say 183, my mistake. Anyway, I don't know if the 3" Gazzi will still fit without buzzing. It's possible on frames with shorter headtubes and the legs at full extension, but I don't know for sure just yet. Our prototype crowns are being machined up as we speak here, so we should have more answers pretty soon.
James
Go-Ride.com
801-474-0081 |
| Mine seems to bottoms at 190... | cantin03
Dec 10, 2003 12:33 PM | | At full extend, there's 196mm of visible stanchion. When bottomed out, there's 6~7 mm remaining. Mine seems to bottoms at 190... |
| Yeah, I get the full 190mm at bottom-out also..... | sub6
Dec 10, 2003 1:41 PM | | go-ride - might wanna check that out, I definitely get all the travel on mine. |
| mine too.... | zedro
Dec 10, 2003 1:45 PM | | and using a Gazz will buzz. |
| Mine gets 190mm too, in fact; | Jm_
Dec 10, 2003 6:12 PM | | I have about 192-193mm of total clearance, and when I bottom the fork, I get about 2-3mm of space between the crown and top of the tire, so definitely 190mm. |
| new bikes with more travel........sag...low..C of G...... | Gunther
Dec 10, 2003 9:15 AM | | They must of been thinking about a fork that works with long travel
bikes 9+ inches. |
| hrm... | binary visions
Dec 10, 2003 10:39 AM | | I think a lot of people are crying over something that they cried FOR not too long ago.
"Tire clearance on the Super T sucks." Okay, well, you can now fit a 3.0 tire. Of COURSE that raises the height of the fork. Tell you what, run a 3.0 with LESS crown clearance. And I'll laugh when you bottom the fork on the tire and end up paying thousands of dollars to have your teeth replaced.
"The Shiver is inverted and it makes it too flexy" or "The Shiver is inverted and the legs twist." Okay, well, right-side-up forks don't have as much crown adjustment because the arch is fixed. Therefore, you can't run it lower just because you have a 2.5" tire on there.
Not to mention the fork gets ~20mm more travel than the Shiver. Hey guys, quick calculation for you - 20mm = 2.0cm / 2.54 = ~0.8", plus 3.0 tire clearance... Guess where the extra inch of fork height came from??
If you're concerned about height, buy the 7" kit, that's why they made it. Or don't. Then you can blame the next race you lose on the 1 degree change in head angle, eh? |
| binary... i love the way you keep the morons in check.......(nm) | WestCoastHucker
Dec 10, 2003 11:09 AM | | |
| there's too many.. we're being overrun! RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!!! nm | binary visions
Dec 10, 2003 11:53 AM | | ... |
| Yeah, they are a bunch of idiots. | Pete.
Dec 10, 2003 11:26 AM | | That fork is WAY too tall, it makes bikes into choppers, and it causes all kinds of consternation amongst equipment obssessed second guessers.
The should have called it the Choppernator. |
| LOL ... and against the couch no less! | Nick.
Dec 10, 2003 11:57 AM | | Nice lamp ... the 5-spot isn't too shabby either.
Nick |
| Get the Go-ride.com 888 low rider crowns... | go-ride.com
Dec 10, 2003 11:32 AM | | That's right, Go-ride.com is making a set of crowns for the 888 to lower the ride height and still maintain the full 8" of travel. The first prototype was finished last weekend, and the final proto should be done this weekend. We are expected to have them for sale by mid Jan '04. I can't tell you how much it will lower the ride (still a secret), but you will be surprised.
Scott @ GO-RIDE.COM |
| OK, I will bite.... | 006_007
Dec 10, 2003 1:21 PM | | You guys are making a new lower crown for the 888? I must admit I am very interested in what you are planning. What will this do to the warranty on the fork? Will you be planning on selling a complete fork with your crowns on it? |
| Get the Go-ride.com 888 low rider crowns... | Doos
Dec 10, 2003 1:45 PM | | How is plugging your shop in this manner not considered spam ??? |
| because they sponsor the forum silly... | zedro
Dec 10, 2003 1:47 PM | | that isnt my typical cynicysme either. Plus they are the only ones doing this, so how is the customer to know? plus its topical to the thread, spam is random. |
| maybe you should check again............ | WestCoastHucker
Dec 10, 2003 2:19 PM | | this forum is sponsored by Fox Racing Shocks. a different forum is sponsored by Go-Ride. _i just think it's funny when everyone says "they (Go-Ride) can do what they want, they sponsor this forum" TOTALLY UNTRUE
no matter what the sizzle sounds like, spam is spam......
(edit- maybe they co-sponsor the forum??) |
| well i see a big giant go-ride banner... | zedro
Dec 10, 2003 2:55 PM | | which is always there and is about 3 times the Fox banners size. Anyways, that wasent spam, it was topical. The term is way over-used.
How else are we supposed to know a new crown is being made if Go-Ride doesnt tell us? wait for someone to randomly notice its being sold on Go-rides site? Gimmee a break. |
| well you should check........ | WestCoastHucker
Dec 10, 2003 3:18 PM | | the top of this page... hmmmm..... no go-ride banner, looks to be a Fox one to me.
by the way, there is a difference between information regarding a product and trying to sell one..... |
| no, you check on top of the page... | zedro
Dec 10, 2003 4:25 PM | | cus i sure got one (perhaps your browser isnt supporting it).
Anyways, someone else brought up the damn crown, people are complaining the forks too tall, so Go-Ride is producing a solution. If you still think its spam, well tough shit. |
| that someone else was also another go-ride employee.............. | WestCoastHucker
Dec 10, 2003 4:41 PM | | personally i don't care if it's spam or not. i was just pointing out that people are so scared to bash go-ride like they will be struck by lightning or something. that being said i have never dealt with them so i have no opinion of them whatsoever. just find it terribly amusing. similar to the Shuntavi groupies........
ps - the Go-Ride banner is only on the main page, not on this one, browser support or no browser support
pps- i hope you don't take offence to these posts (mine), i am pretty sure you don't, but with some, they get thier panties all in a wad. i do respect the info you contain, just need to have some playfull banter.... |
| that someone else was also another go-ride employee.............. | zedro
Dec 10, 2003 5:04 PM | | i've been pretty vocal (hence the remark about by my usual cynicism), although there is a fine line to being appropriate or not, and Go-rides been pretty good for that (usually), as has Brian P from Marz and James@Giant, although they're mainly ridemonkeys now. I've even peddled my Stinky plates, althogh usually people have asked about upgrades. As long as its topical, its ok in my book. Although i'm sure many people were aware that Shuntavies photography helped gain and perpetuate sponsorship for RockGrdn and Astrix and others in a not so subtle fashion (ya gotta wonder if theres any inner workings, especially since he was made a mod around the same time). But really its nothing to cry fowl about.
I did have a beef (or rather annoyance) with Evil back in the day, but only because the 'friends of Evil' were trying to push a product that wasent going to be on the market for another 6 months, all while crying spam at others behavior (the Evil guys did reign them in tho in the end). Those were some ugly days at mtbr, which helped build Ridemonkey all the while. But enough history :).... |
| i think you sort of missed my point......... | WestCoastHucker
Dec 10, 2003 5:23 PM | | i'll agree it wasn't spam and was topical (i had edited that out of a previous post) just more amused at how a group follows around some and will praise them if the shot their own mother, yet will bash a different person for doing the same... (wait that is what you are saying) anyway, there was more to my previous post that seemed to go un-noticed by the tone(for lack of a better word) in this post..... |
| who's scared of bashing?? | wirly
Dec 10, 2003 5:43 PM | | I don't see anyone scared of "bashing GO-RIDE", I see lots of people stoked with them, which makes me happy to see there is a good reliable big-bike parts provider succeeding. I'm most stoked to see them putting their money where their mouth is and SPONSORING A MTB WEBSITE. Good for them spreading around the "wealth", as a MTBR user, I appreciate it. For that I'd be happy to see them, and any other sponsor, give helpful topical "spam" on ANY of the forums.
P.S. I see a relatively large GO-RIDE/Ventanna ad when I come here, I don't know about you. |
| oh, you are so on the Go-Ride payroll.... | zedro
Dec 10, 2003 5:45 PM | | like OMGawd its like sooo ob-vious... |
| Doh! You caught me. | wirly
Dec 10, 2003 5:47 PM | | And I tried to be so sly. |
| get a job | erich schmaltz
Dec 11, 2003 3:25 PM | | WCH, all you do is get on here and post your trash talk. nobody really cares what you think. zedro, jm, and the go-ride guys are the only people on this forum with no interests other than furthering the sport. you come here, slam the users, talk sh1t on the sponsors, and post grainy pictures of you and your buddies going small. this forum isn't a playground for employees shirking their responsibilities at the telemarketing tower, it's for people who actually are trying to help other mountain bikers. god you annoy my ass. |
| who sponsors what page straight from the discussions link above | IJR
Dec 10, 2003 6:57 PM | | Guess Zedros' been looking at too many bearing sites lately.
Passion - share riding experiences. Sponsored by Santa Cruz Bicycles
moderated by CraigH
General Discussion
moderated by CraigH
Downhill - Freeride Sponsored by Fox Racing Shox
moderated by Shuntavi
Lets Talk About Shocks Sponsored by Go-Ride.com
Singlespeed Sponsored by Jericho Bicycles
Save Some Weight Sponsored by Full Speed Ahead
moderated by Trevor!
Brake Time
What Bike to Buy
BMX moderated by ironlegsracer
Everything Drivetrain Sponsored by Full Speed Ahead
Where are the Best Deals? Sponsored by Jenson USA
Beginners Corner
Tooltime
Save the Trails Sponsored by IMBA
Trials
Riding & Training Techniques
Wheels and Wheel Building
29inch Wheeled Bikes
New Products and Innovations
Endurance Racing Sponsored by Jericho Bicycles |
| Now go back and click on those links... | wirly
Dec 10, 2003 7:28 PM | | you'll find there are a couple of possible places to put an ad. If there is no sponsor there is a generic changing ad, if it is sponsored there can still be this generic ad PLUS the ad below it for the SPONSOR (like Jericho and Go-Ride). In the cases with FOX, SC, and Jenson the sponsor's ad REPLACES the generic ad. In the case of the DH-FR forum there are TWO non-generic ads, the named sponsor, FOX, has the top ad which is probably the higher priced slot since this is the only one which shows up as you follow the threads through a particular forum. The lower ad is Go-Ride.
Crap, now yer makin' me sound like an anal-retentive scientist type...oh yeah, I'm still at work. Time for beer! :-) |
| It's not Spam, it's Sperm........a new term used ............... | Anonymous Bosch
Dec 11, 2003 9:06 AM | | When someone has been a longterm nice-guy and offers tons of good free advice, they are allowed to 'penetrate' the forum with Sperm from time to time-to promote the fruits of their own loins. Dave Weagle is another example. I don't remember seeing a lot of people jumping on Evil Sperm. I think Go-Ride does a service to the cycling community and you should buy stuff there rather that Jenson or whatever.
"cynicysme"
Now -that- is creative spelling! |
| oh great.... | zedro
Dec 11, 2003 10:08 AM | | now i'll feel dirty everytime i read a Go-Ride post.
Thanks internet Sperm! |
| Yep Go-ride's always trying to slip it in-nm | Anonymous Bosch
Dec 11, 2003 10:39 AM | | |
| 888 low rider crowns... | 1 soulrider
Dec 10, 2003 4:19 PM | | That's right, Go-ride.com is making a set of crowns for the 888 to lower the ride height and still maintain the full 8" of travel. The first prototype was finished last weekend, and the final proto should be done this weekend. We are expected to have them for sale by mid Jan '04. I can't tell you how much it will lower the ride (still a secret), but you will be surprised.
Well Scott, James said (up a few posts) it will be 30mm lower........... |
| shiver's can't take a 3.0 just because their legs are far apart | Jm_
Dec 10, 2003 5:01 PM | | their designed to take up to a specific tire size for the max headtube size. If your headtube falls below that, then you can run a bigger tire, but just because you can take a tire horizintally doesn't mean you can fit it vertically. I can't fit a 3.0, or even a 2.8 on my shiver. 2.7 is the max.
It's under 8lbs, and 8.01lbs with the integrated stem. A shiver is 8.7lbs or so.
It's stiffer than a shiver. |
| Alright, listen up pansies; | Jm_
Dec 10, 2003 5:17 PM | | Here's the NEW marzocchi fork. This one is going to satisfy everybody from Lance Armstrong to Lance Canfield. This fork is design to meet the needs of the new high end ultra hardcore XC/Cyclocross catagory which is dropping and jumping bigger THAN YOU EVER WILL.
This fork is designed to take the rigors of Xtreme mountain biking, downhill racing, and cyclocross, and it let you school all of your riding buddies.
This fork is designed around the new 1.5432" standard. Marzocchi decided 1.5 wasn't good enough, and that more weight could be saved with a 1.5432" Maxim(tm) Exogrid steerer tube. This fork is sprung on the left leg by air and 2 MCU bumpers, while the right leg gets a 5" titanium spring. The action is controlled by a variable viscosity magneto fluid damper, powered by an internal generator in the new marzocchi QR20++ hub. This fork will have 95.24mm of travel, in all modes. The fork will include the following external ajustments, preload, high speed, low speed, left, right, up, down, light, and dark. This new fork will be marketed as the Super Marathon Monster SL 9-way.
The fork you've all been waiting for will finally be here, and it will be perfect. |
| drool..... me gustah......... | WestCoastHucker
Dec 10, 2003 5:25 PM | | IS or Post Mount? |
| i luv the light or dark feature... | zedro
Dec 10, 2003 5:44 PM | | because you need to change the color of the fork depending on photography/poser conditions.
mmm, exogrid steerer.... |
| Only 10 crown bolts? I heard they are flexy. | Anonymous Bosch
Dec 11, 2003 9:12 AM | | Noice! |
| thats because 5 of the bolts are just decals.... | zedro
Dec 11, 2003 10:09 AM | | pimp factor 101... |
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