|   I WOULD BUY FROM AN LBS IF... | Mountain Cycle Shawn
May 18, 2002 12:59 PM | | they could match the lowest price I could find. The internet companies do this. I would be willing to pay shipping even if the part was in stock, because if buy from mail order I have to pay shipping. And if the part was in stock I would be willing to pay a 5% convenience fee. If internet companies can do it, bike shops can do it and if they did they wouldn't be able to stock their shelves fast enough! |
| two problems with that | WadeO
May 18, 2002 1:31 PM | | Having experience in small-time retail, I can tell you this:
1. Volume buying gets discounts to the buyer. LBS's aren't set up for volume sales. They don't need to inventory 500 cranksets-etc. because the local market doesn't demand it, and that ties up major $ and space. The online store is a phone/pc/warehouse deal. Therefore they pay less to buy products.
2. Not having high-volume sales makes the overhead higher on each product sold. Therefore gross profit margins must be higher in order to net the same $.
My own personal LBS is outstanding. They stock a wide variety of bikes, became a "dealer" to get me my frame (at a discount), have very capable mechanics, sell high-end stuff (albeit not mail-order price) cheaper than MSRP, support the local club, and sponsor a racing team.
I buy there AND mail order. |
| I WOULD BUY FROM AN LBS IF............... | Mike T.
May 18, 2002 1:32 PM | | ......when I ordered something they didn't insist on charging me full retail!
Let's look at this - the order is a "done deal" - no salesperson's time (other than the actual ordering), no shelf-time where their invested money is soaking up interest charges, no uncertainty where they get stuck with old stock (hell I've seen stores that still have 1990 Manitou I forks in stock!) - instant money when the part arrives.
They should charge their cost plus shipping plus a reasonable markup. List price should be reserved for stuff that they have to carry for our convenience.
The straw that broke the camel's back for me was when my LBS quoted me $150canadian for a Campagnolo bottom bracket (list price) that would take a couple of weeks to come in. I phoned another store (90 miles up the road) and they quoted me $99 for one they had in stock. I had it in my hand the next day, shipped to me.
That was not the only incident either.
It's now got to be a very special deal for me to buy from a LBS. |
| I just.............. | heff®
May 18, 2002 8:03 PM | | .........had to sell the Odonta today, dammit.
Anyway, what do you think of my LBS's deal on it? Seven Odonta frame, full Campy Record 10 speed/double ring setup, Seven Ti/carbon fork, Seven Ti post, Campy ErgoBrain computer, Mavic Kyserium SSC wheelset, ti waterbottle cages, the works. 16.5 pounds as she sat.
$6500 out the door, complete.
Good deal, eh?
heff® |
| I dunno.................. | Mike T.
May 19, 2002 2:27 AM | | ....what a complete Odonata is worth. The frame is $3100 alone though and that Record stuff is 'spensive.
Seven Ti post? never heard of one - you sure? Sure it wasn't a CF post or a Ti stem?
But as all Sevens are custom, any shop bike would not be the optimum size or specs :o(
Mike (deleriously happy Seven owner) T. |
| yer right..... | heff®
May 19, 2002 9:38 AM | | .......carbon post, custom ti stem. Too much wine last night.
The bike fit me PERFECTLY, though (sob)
heff® |
| Oooo, was.................. | Mike T.
May 19, 2002 10:44 AM | | ....the tubing butted and gauged for your 200+ lbs or some 130lb'er or a 160? Same wiff the CF tubes. Oh and the stem! :o) |
| Geez, we're staring to sound like a broken record... | Fat-tire
May 18, 2002 1:40 PM | | tell us something we don't know. And don't come bitching when all the LBSes go out of business, and it takes two months to get a new wheel built, or you can't ride because your chain broke and you need a new one NOW, but the only place you can get thme in on line.
I'm not saying your LBS should get ALL of your business, but some would be nice. |
| That's why Wal-Fart rules the world...I rant | WadeO
May 18, 2002 1:49 PM | | everybody wants it for duh cheepist!
Oh yes, please take your hard-earned American dollar and give it to Wal-Spot. After all where else can you get the crappiest stuff, with no support, assembled by morons, for the cheapest price and still SUPPORT COMMUNIST CHINA.
boycott China NOW! |
| My LBS is fair... | Eric Hoefer
May 18, 2002 2:21 PM | | Ive got 3 LBS near me and they all have decent prices. they all have friendly staff and you dont have to wait a week to get a part. you gotta support the LBS without them where would ya go if you couldnt put a part on your bike and didnt want to spend the small fortune on tools. I too confess to buying online every now and them but id say a good chunk of my purchases are at the LBS. |
| BUY YOUR CHINESE CRAP FROM AN LBS, NOT WALMART | devildog
May 18, 2002 4:12 PM | | Going into the LBS for me is no different than walfart really. All of the bikes from Trek, Specialized, Giant, and others in stock are from china or taiwan. They don't stock any accessories of quality. Their prices are 200 to 300 percent higher than mail order.
Yeah, buy your crap from the LBS. It keeps the high school kiddies in crack turning a wrench on your bike. PLUS, the little wiggers can spend their earnings on rap and wigger hoes. |
| Are you telling me that... | jcw
May 19, 2002 7:27 AM | | your LBS doesn't stock anything from Trek above the 4500 ($399 in our shop)? All modles above the 4500 (with the exception of the mens 4900) are handmade in good ol' Waterloo, WI, which last time I checked was still located in the USA, not China. Yes Trek does put out some low end bikes that are made in China, but that is the only way they can come close to matching the Giants and Specialized's, and keep those folks happy who think $300 is an awful lot to spend on a bicycle. After all, they can go to Small Mart or Costco and get a nifty Full Suspension bike for about $120. And lets face it, the American consumer has spoken; the only thing that matters is getting the lowest price possible, where or how it's made is of no concern. |
| Yep | devildog
May 20, 2002 10:31 AM | | This lbs carries all low end stuff at msrp + if they can get away with it.
Handmade in the USA means different things. I am talking about the frames and where they are built. If you are saying that Trek frames above the 4500 are made in the US they need to fire their frame builders because they sure look like Taiwan crap. |
| Yep | jcw
May 21, 2002 6:03 AM | | 4900 WSD and 6500 on up are handmade in WI. So are you claiming that you can tell a Chineese/Tiwaneese weld from an American weld? |
| Comparing a Trek 8500 to a Cannondale | devildog
May 21, 2002 1:35 PM | | When I compare my trek 8500 with my low end Cannondale Super V, the weld finish quality is superior on the Cannondale - and the 8500 costs substantially more than the Cdale.
Comparing the 8500 welds to a Chinese made Giant at an LBS they look equally crappy and pretty much the same in quality.
So if you are telling me that Trek is manufacturing the frames of the 8500 in Wisconsin and not having them made by Giant over in Taiwan(they are the largest OEM frame maker), I'm saying to you that they should be firing the lousy bastards in Wisconsin welding the frames up. Or at least put some pride into their finishing techniques. |
| re: I WOULD BUY FROM AN LBS IF... | VetteRacer
May 18, 2002 4:27 PM | | Check around for a better shop.
Three shops in my area are crap, parts dont get ordered, no haggling capability at all (even on $5k bikes to throw in some water cages or something). The one wont even put a bike together if you bring it to them, the say "Oh you didnt buy it here, sorry" Works great for people visiting the area needing their bike assembled after shipping.
On the other hand, the one shop I use frequently is great. $160 road bars, $120.. cost them $110 IIRC. I just orded a bunch of cages for my road bike, I was handed the behind counter QBP, asked what markup I should add so I can figure out what I wanted to spend, he said $1 on each item... Anything new I buy from them, only time I buy online is for used stuff.
Hope you can find a better shop.
Matt |
| I love when I hear, "we can order it for you..." | SJT
May 18, 2002 5:45 PM | | I was just in one of those yuppie bike shops (coffee bar, trek and specialized bikes, etc.) and asked if they had some of those new Specialized Enduro tires. The employee that approached me didn't even know where they kept the tires, so he had to ask one of the mechanics. Once he found the tires all they had were one or two year old tires and nothing even close to being new. He told me he could order them for me, but I told him I can order them myself and I left. Let me see, order them at the LBS and pay $50/tire or order them directly from Specialized.com for $35/tire...hmm, tough call:) When an item is not in stock at the LBS they are useless to me.
-Steve |
| Businesses have overhead... | John
May 19, 2002 4:36 AM | | Shop space, local taxes,employees, health benefits, carry liablility insurance, and parts for bikes they sell. The typical online store has no actual store. Some of them don't even have a warehouse, they just get drop shipments when they get enough online orders. This cuts their costs, and they can charge less.
I have a personal connection with a dealer who buys from QBP, I pay 16% over the QBP catalog wholesale proce, plus shipping. The LBS can't/won't do it. On an expesive item like Chris King headset, they would charge $114 for it, INCLUDING a discount for being a club rider. Going direct I get it for $95 shipped. This beats most mail order. ALthough I have gone mail order for things that QBP doesn't carry , like Easton CT2 carbon handlebars. I bought them new on eBay for $65. I was willing to give up any warranty issues for the better price. The same for a seatpost, $57 for a CT2 Easton carbon post. There's no way a bike shop can give me that price.
The ONLY time I go to the LBS, is when I HAVE to have a replacement part immediately. The last thing I bought there was a pair of gloves, cause I couldn't find my old pair. |
| LBS for qwik fix... | man w/ one hand
May 19, 2002 4:48 AM | | For sure. My lbs tries their best to replace my broken, abused part(s)
right then, when I bring them bk., only if they don't have something
compatible do I leave still broken. I have had them borrow parts off
of their own bikes or the rentals to get me thru till my part comes
in. Now I have no experience w/ internet companies, but I'm guessing
your not gonna be bk. on the trail that day, unless you live near
jenson, nashbar, etc.
Now on the china, taiwan vs. usa built issue : buddy of mine took
advantage of Dick's sporting goods prices on gt agressor,(1/2 the
cost of his prior gt.) & a camelbak, (1/2 the price of the lbs),
anyhoo, he pulled the dsg sticker off of it & it said made in china.
As I understand before long you'll be glad to get a taiwan frame/bike
cause the chinese stuff may not be up to par, you will be able to get
it warrentied/replaced qwik cause it will be prod. on massive scale.
I started on a giant, taiwan frame, w/no prob. @ all, but now I ride
a RM Reaper. Nobody rants about canadian vs. usa though, I guess when
the chinese start hucking 20/30 ft. drops giving Bender some comp.
then we'll say "been waiting 3 months for my chinese frame what's the
problem?"
my .02
Ride on,
Ride Hard. |
| don't race | heloise
May 19, 2002 6:52 PM | | just in case you were thinking about it.
"most" local races are sponsored by, "surprise" ,local bike shops. probably a good idea to stay off of the trails that the LBS organizes/supports trail-work days on too.
not that there's anything "wrong" with mail-order. you just don't want to be perceived as a leech/hypocrit i'm sure.
now, if the LBSes in your area are NOT doing their part for the cycling community(are they current on their IMBA dues?) ask them "why not?" and continue to use MO with a clear conscience. |
| my lbs does.... | Hallavedet
May 19, 2002 8:33 PM | | Summit City Bicycles in Fort Wayne, Indiana will match any mail order or internet price including shipping, and they're big enough that they have most things anyone would need in stock... |
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