|   the front of my bike is too light!.......... | stinky
Jun 16, 2002 6:03 PM | | i have a hardtail with a 2001 sx-r fork.its a pretty light fork but not extremely light! when ever im climing steep hills my front tire comes of the ground making it very diffucult to climb. would a heavier fork be the solution? or mabye a fork with more or less travel? |
| What kind of bike is it? | Kapusta
Jun 16, 2002 6:31 PM | | Was the frame made for a front shock? If it was made for a older, shorter fork, or a rigid one, your front end may be too high, not to light. It's not a matter of wieght as much as geometry. That's what happened to me when I went from an old Mag21 fork on a mid 90's GT frame to a 70mm Marzocchi fork. It threw the geometry off.
A shorter fork would probably help, but the sx-r is only 80mm. I'm not sure you are going to find any newer forks that are much shorter.
Whether or not the fork/frame combo is the issue, the solution may just be a matter of learning techniques for getting your weight farther forward. Perhaps a different stem? What stem length/rise do you have? Also, bar ends can help get you a few inches forward.
Kapusta |
| Tell me more about that GT fork upgrade | Waide
Jun 16, 2002 8:44 PM | | I am considering upgrading my old '93 Stumpjumper hardtail from it's Future Shock (Mag 20--threaded steerer) to an 80 mm Mars Elite. I feel that I need a new fork if I upgrade to "V" brakes with their higher braking forces. The old fork fares poorly in the stiffness department and it lacks a topout bumper. I actually can't remember what the travel of this fork is, but I am sure it is less than 70 mm.
I have always loved the (stretched out) geometry of this old steel frame, and I hate to think about what how this upgrade may affect it. Perhaps you can tell me more about your experience. I may reconsider the fork upgrade if you convince me. This bike just went from being my beater bike to my only bike. |
| Tell me more about that GT fork upgrade | Kapusta
Jun 17, 2002 3:53 AM | | Well, I bought the bike used with the Mag21 on it. I know it was not original because it was the Specialized version (it had the "s" on the side, but I'm almost positive it was actually a MAG-21, made for Specialized) |
| Whoops! There's more | Kapusta
Jun 17, 2002 4:15 AM | | Well, I bought the bike used with the Mag21 on it. I know it was not original because it was the Specialized version (it had the "s" on the side, but I'm almost positive it was actually a MAG-21, made for Specialized)
Anyway, when I stuck a Z2 Superfly on it, it raised the front end about 1". That is alot. That results in a slack head tube angle. The steering was much slower, but the bike was pretty small for me, so I think the short wheel base made up for it some. On climbs, though, it got sort of sloppy, though. A little harder to keep the front wheel on the ground, but mostly hard to keep a straight line. It is a very fun bike on fast downhill, though.
Another result was that it really affected the seat position. Since I was raising the front of the bike, the seat tube angled back farther. I could not slide the seat forward much because the handlebars came up and back a little in the proccess as well. I tried a longer stem, but did not like the way it felt.
I'm not sure how much of this will apply to your case, because I think these bikes have very different geometries. My GT has a VERY short top tube for me. I now ride a med Superlight, with a tt just over an inch longer, and I think I could stand even more tt length on my next frame. Also, for all I know, even the Mag 21 may have been long for this frame to start with.
I will say that the difference in the performance of the newer shock completly outways any drawbacks. |
| What kind of bike is it? | stinky
Jun 17, 2002 10:27 AM | | its a 2001 marin pine mtn.....a 15' frame. the stem is 6degree rise and around 100-120mm long. would a 15degree rise be better? |
| Oh, so this is the fork it came with? | Kapusta
Jun 17, 2002 6:22 PM | | Well, then that is probably not the problem.
Going to a 15 degree rise will probably make the situation worse.
Tell me this first: How high is your handle bar in relation to your seat (1" lower, 1" higher, level...)? That has a great effect on the front end durring climbs, and will help determine what stem to use. In general, a lower bar (and longer stem) is better for climbing. However it also has drawbacks in many situations. Try to get an acurate measurement of the stem you have. 100mm and 120mm are significantly different lengths. If it is 100mm, you may try a 120mm, but I would not go over 120mm.
Kapusta |
| Oh, so this is the fork it came with? | stinky
Jun 17, 2002 11:35 PM | | the seat is up pretty high..about 3-4 inches higher than the bar. stem is 110mm and i have a riser bar. |
| OK, the hieght is definitely NOT the problem. | Kapusta
Jun 18, 2002 5:17 AM | | I assume when you say 3-4 inches, you are including the rise of the bar. That's a pretty low bar. As far as hieght goes, that should be great for climbs.
How far back is your seat? Perhaps you could go to a 120mm stem and scoot the seat forward. This will probably help a little, but 10mm is not going to make a world of difference. You could go longer than 120mm, but I generally hear folks recomend against it. However, I run a 135mm stem on my "extra" hardtail (the frame is a little short for me) and it works fine, though. It could be that your frame is too small for you.
I think the first thing is to try some of the techniques that JimC, and Gonzostrike described. That stuff does help alot. Certainly work on technique before going over 120mm.
Also, I don't know how much sweep your bar has, but a straighter bar will also put your hands farther forward. Or you could try rotating your bar forward a tad.
Kapusta |
| Nope it's not... | JimC
Jun 16, 2002 7:00 PM | | any bike will wheelie if your Simple leverage law.
You need a quick read-up on how to climb, you might need a longer stem, you need to shift your weight forward.
Jim |
| how to climb *way steep* | JimC
Jun 16, 2002 7:03 PM | | there ar lots of pages on this, here's one to help you get started, Jim
http://www.mtbbritain.co.uk/way_steep_climbing.html |
| I'm with Jim--look at your technique first | Retro
Jun 17, 2002 7:00 AM | | The idea of a bike being too light is way weird. It's much more likely that it either doesn't fit you or your technique needs some refining. On really steep stuff, just shifting your head forward or back a couple of inches can be enough to make a difference. |
| listen to JimC, he's saying the truth | gonzostrike
Jun 17, 2002 7:59 AM | | you're experiencing the effect of poor climbing technique.
tips --
1) get forward on your saddle when you approach the climb. you should slide your butt forward until you are literally sitting on the nose of the saddle.
2) pull BACK (not UP) on your handlebar, as if trying to pull it straight into your belly
3) spin a smooth cadence and do not surge or do pedal kicks
4) when you climb with the proper technique, you should actually feel two significant things -- (a) your abdominal muscles are tense, and (b) the rear wheel feels like it's being driven downward into the soil/trail.
folks who are primarily road riders usually have difficulty climbing on an mtb. this is because the geometry of road bikes and the excellent traction of pavement combine to make rear wheel traction pretty much a non-issue on a roadie.
good luck!
ps-- the Manitou SX-R is a very good fork for the money. don't get rid of it until you've tried all the tuning options and spring/MCU options, and still find it doesn't work well for you. |
| Maybe your frame is too small / seatpost is too high | root locus
Jun 16, 2002 7:18 PM | | I have the same problem. I am 6'3" and ride a 19" frame (Kona Munimula). I knew it would be small when I bought it, but I liked the feel of a smaller bike since I grew up riding BMX and freestyle bikes. Anyway, I usually put the seat WAY up, plus the short frame and riser bars all contribute to shifting my weight too far back. The front wheel wants to lift up and wander a little when climbing steep stuff. I have to shift my weight toward the front of the saddle (ouch) and lean forward more. But otherwise, I still love the bike (I don't race). It's great for jumping, bunnyhopping, etc. |
| It's not the weight of the bike. | tlg
Jun 17, 2002 3:40 AM | | It's your riding style. You need to learn how to shift your weight properly to get traction in the rear while keeping the front end down.
There are forks even lighter than the sx-r and people don't have problems with them. |
| Use strapping tape & 5 pound iron weight- | Dibbles
Jun 17, 2002 8:35 AM | | Mount the weight centered on the handle bars with the tape. I do this and my climbing has greatly improved! |
| Fill your front tire with water, too (nm) | shiggy
Jun 17, 2002 9:23 AM | | |
| LOL... or better yet.... | tlg
Jun 17, 2002 10:41 AM | | But then ya gotta cary and extra camelbak of water in case you get a flat.
Fill it with liquid latex. It'll be heavier, AND when it hardens, you'll have a flat-proof tire!! |
| how to eliminate that sluggish feeling | rufus
Jun 17, 2002 10:05 AM | | since you've now effectively lessened the head angle by installing the longer fork, your bike feels as if it handles more sluggishly to you. you also said the bar angles back somewhat.
replacing that bar with one that doesn't angle back so much will put more of your weight forward, helping you to keep weight over the front wheel. you might also try cutting the bars width down a little, this will quicken steering response. a longer stem isn't the answer, but a slightly shorter stem may help quicken steering as well, as long as it doesn't mess up your bike fit. |
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