|   trail etiquette | craigy
Jul 14, 2002 12:36 PM | | Who has right of way? The mtbr going downhill or the mtbr going uphill?
Now I was brought up to allow the uphill mtbr the right of way...seems logical to me, they are working harder and if they stop they might not be able to start up again and ber forced to walk.
The downhiller should be attentive enough to be able to see things down the trail and brake in time.
Today though the uphill rider stopped for me and when I had stopped and ushered him through he told me that downhill has ther righ of way between mtbers??
Who can clarify?
:) |
| It's not etched in stone.... | fred³
Jul 14, 2002 1:17 PM | | but like you I'll give uphill riders the r.o.w. If people are going so fast they can't stop for an uphill rider then they're going too fast and I'll bet 9 times out of 10 when they stop/corner they do some skidding and that's not good trail etiquette/use either. Not to mention the fact that they're a danger on the trail to other riders/walkers.
Guaranteed you'll get an opposing view. |
| Sigh.... The R.O.W. rule to follow is ... | OldSchool
Jul 14, 2002 1:48 PM | | Uphill has rights.
But that does not mean that we should not be courteous and apply common sense when we ride. If I'm climbing and it's easy for me to pull off, and/or if the rider coming down is not in control, and/or if it looks as if the rider coming down is not planning on sharing the trail, then I let him have the trail. No skin off my nose.
But the rule is... uphill has rights (go check IMBA). Be aware of it, but don't be a prick about it.
This question comes up often, and it causes many arguments (do a search here). I normally wouldn't respond, but this is important.
Tim |
| Where does IMBA say this? | Dropout
Jul 14, 2002 5:06 PM | | I read your post and checked the IMBA web site, and under trail rules they basically say be considerate and use your head, I couldn't find anything that said "yeild to biker going uphill".
I know when I was in Moab we were told the uphill rider had right of way, but then when asking different locals this phrase was understood differently. Some riders believed this meant the rider going uphill, while others believed it meant the rider further up the slope, ie. the rider going downhill.
Personally, people in my area yield to the downhill riders, for a number of reasons. First of all the downhill riders are going faster and it is harder for them to stop, even if in control. Second, a downhill rider is making far more noise than an uphill rider, so it is easier for the uphill rider to hear the downhill rider coming. On many steep ascents/descents it is just as hard for a downhill rider to start again as it is for the uphill rider.
So, I am, overall unclear on this subject, but would love to read the section of IMBA you mentioned to clear things up.
Thanks |
| IMBA.. | Jrm
Jul 14, 2002 2:15 PM | | A non regulatory agency/organization states that the uphill rider has right of way. Dont expect this rule to be reconized by all riders. Nor shoul you assume or expoect that other riders either know of this "rule" or pratice it. With this, be safe and let the individual situation dictate who has right of way. |
| common sense for me | earthworm
Jul 14, 2002 4:18 PM | | regardless of the proper rule... it`s much safer for me to stop going uphill and get outa the way of a person blazing down.it will take the downhill rider longer to stop than it will the uphill person.
So i always let the downhiller have the trail if its to narrow for both of us.
Also after all the work getting to the top i really love to blast the downhill....so safety should be the bottom line |
| I agree-safety should be the bottom line... | rb
Jul 14, 2002 5:54 PM | | So if the downhill rider can't stop for an uphill rider, what's going to happen when he or she encounters hikers or equestrians? You can have fun descending fast, but slow down if you can't see far enough ahead to stop safely--nothing will get a trail closed faster than an accident with a hiker or horseback rider. By the way, here on the Front Range of Colorado, it is common knowledge that the uphill rider has the right of way. |
| I agree-safety should be the bottom line... | craig
Jul 15, 2002 9:34 PM | | Yep! Seems obvious to me, except maybe when going down Captain Jack's
:) |
| But it's harder to restart going up hill... | Lord Opie
Jul 14, 2002 7:04 PM | | As a n00b, i'm impressed with Colorado riders. Even "pros" step aside when I'm slowly grinding up hill. Some even encourage me =)
God Bless Colorado!
PS: oh, umm, it's horrible to live here... but do vacation and spend lots of money ;-) |
| But if safety were the bottom line like you say..... | fred³
Jul 15, 2002 4:15 AM | | then no one would ever go so fast downhill that they couldn't "safely" stop for people going uphill. |
| In actual practice I ... | Scott F
Jul 14, 2002 7:04 PM | | I believe the general rule is that the rider going uphill has the ROW. However, in practice I allow two or three exceptions.
#1 - If it is easier for me to stop and restart than for the other rider/s, then I stop". Suppose I alone am going up a moderate uphill (where I can restart okay), and I can see a group of five coming down - I stop to let them pass because one stops easier than five.
#2 - If I'm going uphill and I'm beat (happens often), I stop for the downhill rider because it gives me an excuse to rest.
#3 - If I'm going uphill on a deserted trail I stop for the downhill rider, hoping that he'll stop also to chat. |
| Best rule: The other guy ALWAYS has right of way. | Matno
Jul 15, 2002 3:55 AM | | If everybody would follow this rule, the trails would be much more pleasant. Plus, everytime you passed another biker, you would have a chance to say hello and ask each other about the trail. Can't we all just be friends?... |
| Best rule: The... seriously? | Lord Opie
Jul 15, 2002 5:34 AM | | It seems if everyone followed that rule, we'd get no where in life. |
| Be flexible... | cm
Jul 15, 2002 7:03 AM | | I always pull off when climbing if it's practical - Sort of a Golden Rule type of thing. I'd rather stop when climbing than decending, so I'm just hoping people will do the same for me (despite the fact that trail etiquette is the opposite). I always plan to stop when coming down but love those people who let the downhiller pass. If everyone was just flexible and didn't worry about defending their 'rights' things would be a lot easier! |
| Etiquette (and common sense) asserts ROW for Uphiller | Just me
Jul 15, 2002 7:39 AM | | Common sense dictates ROW is to the uphiller because the division of labor and perhaps technical demand in chosing a line without stalling is greater. But if some fool (i.e., armor clad downhiller)is playing chicken with me, I'll step to the side. Obviously, etiquette is tacit rules of courtesy honored by a particular group at any given time. However, if you shuttle to the top of the hill instead of climb, then you probably could care less about who's comming up--so common sense is not longer "common". If you climb up, then hog the line during your descent, then just realize that you increase the probability of head on collision or crashes, making trail closure imminent. After all, unless you bike, other trail users are so fed up with us, that they just assume let us fight it out, hoping all bikers fall of the trail and/or leave us for dead.
I had to chime in. I was recently clipped by a downhiller (an XCer)even when I yielded my ROW--my hamstring was torn because it conveniently cushioned his lefty-Cannondale and his sliding body wt. I was hobbled for 8 weeks with a lot of PT. But if you read this, I'm just preaching to choir anyway! |
| hehehaha--debate | earthworm
Jul 15, 2002 8:38 AM | | I always pedal my 40# rm-7 uphill( pisgah area ). I didnt mean to get you young uns riled up.Most of my rides,up or down ill yeild just cause i dont really care about being the one demanding my rights, AND AFTER 18 YRS OFF RIDING IVE NEVER HAD A COLLISION, or even a close call.
Maybe , if we just walked downhill, then we would`nt have to even worry about it---lol |
| Yes seriously. It works for me. | Matno
Jul 15, 2002 8:12 AM | | On the contrary, rather than getting no where, we would probably get everywhere faster. Remember: haste makes waste. But seriously, it doesn't really waste any time (unless you're trying to set some time record), and everyone's happy. It's the rule I follow and I've never had a "clash" with anyone on the trail. Ever. Just smile and slow down when necessary. I've also found that it helps, on group rides, if the person in front lets people going the opposite direction know how many more there are behind him.
People who get uptight about having to slow down or stop on a trail really need to relax a little. |
| General rule of thumb: Unless he is on a horse... | Fat-tire
Jul 15, 2002 7:08 AM | | uphill rider has the right of way. But if a uphill rider stops for me, I don't typically argue.
You did right. |
| climbers rule! | Mossy
Jul 15, 2002 9:05 AM | | Just easier for descenders to get started again, in general.
But if Im climbing I never insist on the right of way. |
| re: trail etiquette-up hill has right of way | fattirewilly
Jul 15, 2002 11:18 AM | | Unless you are on a DH specific course (ski slope during a DH race??) the uphill rider has the right of way. If there is only one line up, I'll usually take it, the DH rider can hit the berm or pick a harder line. Conversally, if I need a break, I may also take it, but the DH rider shouldn't count on it.
Many times each rider goes to the right, like driving on a narrow street (in the US). |
| re: trail etiquette-up hill has right of way | Just me
Jul 16, 2002 9:51 AM | | Merging to the right is always a good idea. However, instead of just etiquette, how about IMBA formally endorsing this ROW scenario to prevent ambiguity and to educate novice riders. Kind of like always yielding the ROW to hikers and horses is a formal "rule". Unfortunately, I don't think many neophytes are going to go for a racing license,where the card runs down a formal list of the back of it.
Again, I just preaching to the choir. But as MTBers, should we not all be concerned about treading respectfully on our trails and treating each other with mutual courtesy, by unambiguously defining ROW, reducing crashes and/or conflict amongst ourselves. For instance, I hate the look of my Pikachu toddler bell on my handlebars, but in order to clarify that someone/thing is approaching a blind switchback I can ring the damn thing, or warn other users that I approach on their flank. I'm no Gandi of the MTB world, so I am not look for adulation here. I am thinking safety for myself and fellow riders, and respecting other users "peace of mind" rather than roust them from behind, if I'm to spent to yell ahead. All this I hope will help forestall, the growing apprehension about MTBers in general. And I think many others agree (at least about the bells, as I actually saw [heard] another rider with one).
MTB to me is not a sport/recreation, its a mental hiatus from corporate posturing and the rat race. It's therapeutic and a nuturing millieu where I can feel somewhat protected from it while forging meaningful acquaintances w/ similar others or just plain "alone" time while I exercise. But if I have to be worring constantly about being run down because they did'nt know who has ROW in a singletrack ascent, then I have to find other riding haunts. But w/ single track on the wane, the MTB crowd is only going to thicken (which is great for the lawyers and bike retailers--I also welcome new informed riders to the trail.
Peace of mind costs however, it's responsibility to clearly know the "rules" and try to follow them as reasonably as possible because we all benefit.
I now respectfully "step down". |
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