|   KOPS Poll: What's your preferred fore/aft position? | Ride
Jan 22, 2003 7:13 PM | | Umm, uhh, I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post my very own poll here considering I'm not a regular contributor (although I do read these forums every day if that counts), but here goes anyway...
I have been tweaking the fore/aft saddle position on my bike for a while now, but I haven't been able to decide what works best for me yet. I started out with my knee positioned about 1 cm in front of the pedal spindle (as measured by a weighted string held in the little indention just below my kneecap). After hypothesizing that a more rearward position might help improve my less-than-stellar climbing abilities (as well as shift my weight back making lofting the front wheel almost possible), I adjusted my position to be 1 cm behind the pedal spindle. Well, my climbing still sucks and now my knee hurts a tad too.
Are there any unwritten rules for setting one's position (relative to KOPS)? I've read that KOPS is best for higher cadences while a position up to a few cm rear of KOPS (plumb bob falling behind pedal spindle) is better for folks who push big gears. Is there a good rule for general XC singletrack positioning?
I know you can't tell me what the best position for me is, but I would really like to know what position, relative to KOPS, works best for you...
Thanks for your time,
Phil |
| re: KOPS Poll: What's your preferred fore/aft position? | jcw
Jan 22, 2003 8:30 PM | | I like mine set so that the plumb bob will be just slightly behind the pedal spindle. Sounds to me like you've got a good handle on the KOPS rules of thumb, spinners slightly forward, mashers slightly back. I generally start people as close to dead on as possible, and let them go from there, experimenting with it slightly forward or slightly back. Since you don't seem to notice an improvement with the back position and it resulted in knee pain, seems to me to be a no brainer to move it back forward. Small knee pains can develop into chronic problems quicker than you might think. |
| re: KOPS Poll: What's your preferred fore/aft position? | Ride
Jan 23, 2003 5:38 PM | | Thanks for the advice. I agree, it seems like a no brainer to put my seat back where it was, but I guess I'm just not ready to admit that my lackluster climbing performance is all about me and not the bike. I'll probably continue to experiment a little bit more, but I will be very attentive to my knees - the last thing that I want to do is cause a chronic knee injury in my quest to improve climbing performance or fine tune my balance.
Thanks,
Phil |
| What??? Don't you know... | jcw
Jan 24, 2003 7:10 AM | | it's always the bikes fault! ; ) |
| I like KOPS | laffeaux
Jan 22, 2003 10:23 PM | | I'm pretty much centered on my cranks as described by KOPS. However, I move forward on the saddle when I'm spinning fast on a climb, and slide back on the saddle when I'm pushing the gears hard. I guess I like KOPS because it does not overly commit me to any one ridding style. |
| I like KOPS | Ride
Jan 23, 2003 5:51 PM | | I suspect that your approach is as good as any when it comes to mountain bikes, since, as you point out, one tends to move about on the saddle in response to the terrain anyway (thus altering the knee/pedal relationship). I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't missing something...
Phil |
| I like HERONTOP position | Mr Magoo
Jan 23, 2003 5:57 AM | | sorry, I haven't thrown one of these out in a while. I should be good for another year. |
| check this out | boyonwheel
Jan 23, 2003 12:42 PM | | I've always just bought a bike, screwed the seat on and off I went with not so much as any discomfort. That is, until I got the Giant NRS. I've not found a way to make it comfortable yet. This article may be a million years old and out of date, or not. I don't know, but take a look.
http://www.bsn.com/Cycling/articles/kops.html |
| check this out | Ride
Jan 23, 2003 6:02 PM | | Yeah, I know about the Bontrager article. I've read it a couple of times actually, and it sort of makes sense, but I still haven't figured out how to apply it in practice! Thanks for posting the link though.
I had some difficulty getting to the point where I felt at home on my current ride. After a bit of tweaking of the saddle position, changing out the stem, and adding a longer travel fork (resulting in improved overall geometry IMO), it now feels quite natural. If you are not comfortable, then don't be afraid to play - you can always change it back...
Phil |
| Hey, this one's pretty cool... | boyonwheel
Jan 23, 2003 5:58 PM | | http://www.wrenchscience.com/WS1/default.asp |
| Hey, this one's pretty cool... | Ride
Jan 23, 2003 6:40 PM | | Yeah, I've been there too. There are other sites that offer similar fitting guidance (ColoradoCyclist.com comes to mind). Zinn's Mountain Bike Maintenance book has an interesting section on fitting in the appendices as well. One thing that the Wrench Science site attempts to take into account is flexibility - something most fitting articles that I've read seem to overlook. When you are old and decrepit like I am, flexibility (or lack thereof) needs to be part of the equation - to me that means bars positioned at about saddle height on my XC bike. Oh, but if I could just find the magic pill that'll make me climb faster... |
| KOPS is a place to start. | Berkeley Mike
Jan 23, 2003 7:16 PM | | It works best for road due to the more static position. and becomes a method of getting power to the wheels while keester is planted squarly in the saddle.
On dirt the variety of positions you need to succeed on the different terrain reduces the emhisis on the saddle position, though it is still important. In most cases, given fitness, and mechanical integrity, climbing is about where you put your weight; hands, feet, butt.
In order to address the climbing problem we have to know how you are failing. Are you wandering, spinning, or just falling over sideways? |
| KOPS is a place to start. | Ride
Jan 24, 2003 9:28 AM | | Well, actually, my climbing problem is probably (well, ok, almost certainly) more related to my spindly legs than bike fit. When I am paying attention, I can control front end wander and rear wheel spinout by shifting my weight appropriately (although I did flip over backwards once on a particularly steep climb - fortunately no one was watching). So I am pretty sure that my bike is a reasonble fit.
I started wondering about my saddle position for two reasons: (1) I read that positioning the saddle such that the plumb bob falls somewhat behind the pedal spindle increases leverage - and I am all for more leverage, and (2) I'd like to shift my CG back slightly to make lofting the front end a little bit easier.
I am sure that a bit of leg work at the gym would lead to much more improvement than any saddle adjustment - but that's just not me. All I really want to do is go for long rides (3+ hours) on the trails and be able to make it up the climbs without anyone breathing down my back because I'm too slow.
I think I'm gonna just take JCW's advice and put my saddle back where it was (since I have no knee pain in that position), and try to spend a little more time on the road in search of hills (not that there are many where I live). Now if only the temperature would cooperate by rising into the 30's...
Thanks for your thoughts,
Phil |
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