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MountainBikeReview.com's Forum Archives - General Discussion
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Cross-country fully vs. hardtail, what is better? (11 posts)
|  Cross-country fully vs. hardtail, what is better? | Arsen
Mar 28, 2003 5:54 AM | | I have a hardtail bike Scott Expert and Im thinking about changing it to a full Cross-country bike. Is it worth of efforts and money?
What are advantages of cross-country fully bike?
And if i will go for a free ride on such a bike , will suspension survive it?
Thanks |
| most highly debated topic ever! | namaSSte
Mar 28, 2003 6:24 AM | | I'd seriously suggest doing some searching on this sight for past discussions as this topic has been beaten into oblivion.
In the end, you'll hear/read great arguments on both sides. My advice? Borrow a FS for a ride or two, then ride your hardtail. Make sure to try two totally different types of trails. With me still? OK. At the end of each ride, which bike leaves you with a bigger smile? You just answered your own question.
Seriously, there are advantages to both. I just debated going FS and instead went with a steel hardtail with a little more travel. Im really happy with the choice but there are times I still wish I had FS. No bike is right fro every condition so go with what "feels" right when you ride it, not with some rational evaluation.
Just my pair o' yen.
Scott |
| I'm with mtbmon on this one...... | bungyfish
Mar 28, 2003 6:35 AM | | Go with what you like. I prefer a HT, but most of my riding buddies go with the FS. Really personal choice. Tomato/tomaato. I agree with Scott, borrow a friends, ride it a couple times and see what you think. That's what I did, and I decided to stay HT. Ask everyone you see for their opinion, but in the end its call. Good luck.
mb |
| One of each is ideal... | Egg
Mar 28, 2003 6:50 AM | | If you could hold on to your HT and purchase a FS as well you could choose based on your mood or where you'll be riding. I am fortunate, that is my situation, i love having the choice! |
| Ditto.... | FreeRangeChicken
Mar 28, 2003 8:15 AM | | If you can manage it, it's nice to have one of each. I find that my hardtail(Seven Sola) forces me to be a better technical rider. It is less forgiving on rough terrain. Also, you can't beat a hardtail for rides with lots of climbing. It's lighter and all the power goes to the back wheel... nothing lost in the rear suspension.
My FS bike(Intense Tracer) is wonerful for rides when I just want to bomb down the trail. I can ride over stuff without a second though that would make me pretty nervous on the hardtail. A lot of this has to do with the geometry and setup of the bike too.
Geometry and setup:
My FS bike has a longer fork, riser bars and short stem. This setup keeps my body more upright and my CG slightly further back, lessening the opportunity for endos. The hardtail is setup so I'm more bent over(weight is more forward), which increases the opportunity for endo-age, but it's great for climbing. The frame geometry along with the fork on the hardtail combine to make a steeper head tube angle, which makes it very agile, but can be a little squirrely at high speed. The headtube angle on my FS bike is more relaxed making it more stable at high speed. Bottom line you can alter the setup on any bike (within limits... and even the geometry on some bikes) to make it a better climber, or descender according to your taste.
There are some really great FS-XC bikes out there right now. (Santa Cruz, Intense, Ellsworth to name a few brands, there are a ton more). The penalty you pay for FS is weight. Most upper-end FS bikes now have a lockout on the rear suspension to control bob on long flat sections and some climbing situations.
As most here have said, it boils down to preference. If I could only keep one of my bikes, it would be the hardtail. As I said before, I think it forces me to be a better technical rider.
FRC |
| Partially agree/mostly disagree | Matno
Mar 29, 2003 5:36 AM | | I think you'll find that the number of hardtail fans is somewhat skewed by the "purist" nature of this board. Most people I know with only ONE exception out of about 40 riders, prefer full suspension. Many of them have hardtails too, but they rarely get ridden. If you're just out to have a good time, get the FS. If you're racing anything longer than 1/2 hour, get the FS. If your trails are not perfectly flat and baby-butt smooth, get the FS.
"You can't beat a hardtail for rides with lots of climbing. It's lighter and all the power goes to the back wheel... nothing lost in the rear suspension." Just go for a test ride that has long rough climbs on a nice light FS bike, and you'll see that this argument only holds true for smooth climbs. Rear suspension is the best thing that ever happened to climbing, IMO. It gives you WAY better traction. With a HT, you are much more prone to "spin out" on obstacles while climbing because the tire just bounces into the air. Not fun.
The last post pretty much sums it up: "If I could only keep one of my bikes, it would be the hardtail. As I said before, I think it forces me to be a better technical rider." The key word here is "forces." You should be in control of your bike, not the other way around. A hardtail will toss you around a lot more - no matter how good your technical skills are. If you're like a lot of us (getting old or trying to avoid getting old too soon) your body will thank you for getting a FS bike. If I could only keep one bike, it would be the FS. HT's are nice for practicing technical skills in the driveway. Otherwise, they're just not as fun.
The only really good reasons I can think of to get a HT over FS are: 1) you race smooth races and only care about weight, 2) you do trials (try doing wheelie hops on a dually and you'll see what I mean), or 3) you want a new bike and can't afford a FS (if you don't mind buying used, this is a crummy excuse. You can get fantastic deals on used dual suspension bikes. Much cheaper than a decent new hardtail in many cases. You just have to hang around eBay for a while...) |
| Huh? | FreeRangeChicken
Mar 29, 2003 2:06 PM | | "The key word here is "forces." You should be in control of your bike, not the other way around."
Who said anything about not being in control of your bike? The point I'm trying to stress is development of technical skills. If you can ride a section on a hardtail, you can likely ride it on a FS bike. I would venture to say that the reverse is far often less true.
I honed my skills on a hardtail for 5 years before getting a FS bike. I believe I am a far better rider for it. I believe I'm far better on my FS bike because I learned good, sound tech skills on a hardtail before moving up. I'm sure others believe this is a bunch of hooey, and that's fine, but that has been my personal experience.
"If your trails are not perfectly flat and baby-butt smooth, get the FS."
As far as baby-butt smooth only for hardtails, the stuff I ride on my hardtail is far, far from it.
I said before that there are some great FS bikes out there. If you buy a good proven design with decent components, you pretty much can't go wrong. |
| Very nice responses... typically alot of passion on this | singletrack
Mar 28, 2003 7:39 AM | | subject. I too have a hardtail (Marin Indian Fire Trail) and a Full Suspension (Santa Cruz Superlight). I like them both and trade back and forth quite often. I seem to favor one for a while and then go back to the other.
I'm riding the Sea Otter in a couple weeks. I'm going with the Hardtail as the course have been smoothed out a bit and I climb better on the HT.
In May I'm riding the 24 Hours of Adren. on basically the same course and I'm going to mount the Santa Cruz. Six or Seven laps begs for the full suspension !!!! |
| smooth jazz or rock n' roll | john tesh shot yanni
Mar 28, 2003 11:43 AM | | depends on your terrain.
if you have mellow smooth jazz terrain, than a hardtail is fine.
but if you have rough sections and decents, a full susp is sweet. |
| Agree with one of each is best... | JmZ
Mar 28, 2003 6:30 PM | | I built up a XC dually a few years ago. I really like the bike. Light, quick, and great on all day rides.
I built up a steel hardtail last year for a commuting bike. I have since swapped out that for a different, but still steel, commuting bike, and have purchased a new steel hardtail frame to build up this winter. In fact just ordered the last two parts.
A XC dually is a fun ride, but it often lacks the immediacy of a good XC hardtail. The XC dually doesn't seem as nervous and seems more stable. Each can be a good thing. Just depends on you and your riding style.
And the short answer to if it will survive a freeride attempt is 'it depends'. There are some designs that should be a pretty easy yes, and others that are a definte NO! (Then there are exceptions to the rule too... ask D8 about his light freeride Amp. Two words that don't belong in the same sentance. And I ride an Amp fork too. :)
I would think that a Tracer could probably handle light freeride, but a Extralite dually... I wouldn't attempt it. Similar design, vastly different implementation.
JmZ |
| re: Cross-country fully vs. hardtail, what is better? | alphawolf
Mar 29, 2003 8:00 AM | | With no doubt at all the Soft-tail is better so long as you get a good Dual shock design. There are may of them out there.
Look at it this way. Consider your tires as balls and that the moment they hit something (A rock, divot, stick... they bounce). With a hard-tail that tire continues to "bounce" leaving the back end temporally in the air and not in control. A dual design absorbs the "bounce" and keeps the tire on the ground (because of this you lose no traction, no forward momentum and no control. This is true uphill or downhill.
Downhill riding, the Soft-tail far exceeds the hard tail without mention. |
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