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AMERICANS, America. *PLEASE READ* (89 posts)
|  AMERICANS, America. *PLEASE READ* | Alphawolf
Mar 28, 2003 6:28 AM | | During this time for the USA when it is becoming apparent how many people in the world hate us I would like to remind the readers of MTBR that there are allot of FRENCH companies out there making mountain bike and road bike products. If you are tired of the way we are treated by the French people and government you may wish to consider this during the time of your next bicycle part purchase.
Case in point... I have been looking at Mountain bike wheels and would have considered a set of Mavics Crossmax SL tubeless wheels. I will no longer do so now and will never do so in the future. Mavic is no longer a company I will ever deal with.
While I do not believe we as Americans can ever have an overall effect on Frances economy it does not mean we cant try and it does not mean we cant send a signal to France.
I personally do not need France and I do not want anything to do with France now or in the future. A large amount of groveling and begging for forgives started NOW towards America and its people on the part of the French government might persuade me otherwise. Until then I can live comfortably acknowledging the fact that France exists only as the small backward country stuck in the dark ages that it is.
Goodbye France and if you need Americas help in the future you can take comfort in the fact that you can look elsewhere. I think that I as an American can say the majority of the people of America feel the same way. Good riddance.
A long story made short. If you feel the same way or close to the same way as I do simply consider your next bicycle part purchase a little more closely.
In closing one last thought. What a bunch of ungrateful, nose in the air people the French turned out to be. Who would have thought?
Wayne |
| Pathetic! | SCHeck
Mar 28, 2003 6:52 AM | | In case you haven't watched the news recently, the US is at war with Iraq, not France! Just because every country does not choose to march to the beat of the U.S. drum, doesn't make them our enemies to be despised, boycotted, etc.
If you feel so stringly, please stop driving your car immediately - you are buying Arab oil.
Sometimes, I'm embarrased to be an American when I see ridiculous comments like yours.
Peace to the world. |
| Pathetic! | Alphawolf
Mar 28, 2003 7:00 AM | | You can be embarrassed if you like. In fact if I were you I would be in fact be embarrassed most of the time I think.
Please don't forget though, it is your right as a free individual to voice your non-agreement with what I have said. Iraqi people do not have freedom of any sort. Not even the simple freedom of free speech.
A couple of thoughts. France, in direct violation of UN charters, has sold Iraq illegal materials before and after the Gulf-War.
If you are truly that embarrassed to be and American you can prove it by denouncing your citizenship, leaving the country and never returning. That would prove to me and everyone else that you mean what you say.
Lastly.it is difficult to imagine a world in which we do not have what seem to be basic freedoms when we have always had them. Try to imagine such a place. It is not a comfortable place to say the least. |
| good thing we never supported Iraq... | Hollywood
Mar 28, 2003 9:49 AM | | like Rumsfeld meeting with Saddam, selling them chemicals, etc. Remember when IRAN was the bad guys?
i "A couple of thoughts. France, in direct violation of UN charters, has sold Iraq illegal materials before and after the Gulf-War." |
| good thing we never supported Iraq... | pimpbot
Mar 28, 2003 11:03 AM | | Did they illegally sell them Mavic rims? |
| I thought that America was about freedom of speech | laffeaux
Mar 28, 2003 12:36 PM | | I thought that the US supported freedom of speech. France has exercised that right. Sure they are not an American citizen, but since you're for liberating Iraq so that they can have "the simple freedom of free speech." Then you must be in favor of giving this freedom to everyone.
Part of the freedom of speech, is to be able to speak freely without the fear of reprisals for your words. If the government says that you can say whatever you want, but if you say something that they do not like you will suffer economically, is that freedom of speech? Absolutely not!
France has exercised a "basic" right in stating their disagreement. You, claiming to be a patriot, are now advocating that we penalize France for exercising a basic right. That puts you in direct violation of the rights that you are fighting for.
Just because someone does not agree with you, does not make that person wrong. France is not supporting Iraq. People that protest the war are not supporting Iraq. There are many solutions to any problem. Just because someone sees an alternative solution to a problem as superior to the one that you choose, does not make them wrong. |
| I thought that America was about freedom of speech | ladge
Mar 28, 2003 7:09 PM | | Hey Laffeaux-
"France is not supporting Iraq."
Hmm...maybe not directly...they just sabotaged US relations with Turkey to the point that Turkey decided not to let US troops station and launch attacks from there which could easily be debated,is costing more US soldiers lives in the area...they spearheaded the effort to get as much support as possible from other countries banning the US from entering into war with Iraq; and now that the war is in progress they are advertently?/inadvertently? increasing already substantial resentment for the US around the world by seeking more opposition to the coalition led war(last I saw they were in Africa)...or how about your countries' leader acting as a middle man for Saddam getting him a nuclear reactor(that's where the I-131, Cesium, and other various dirty bomb isotopes would come from)...That sure isn't taking an anti-Saddam stance. Hopefully now you know why US citizens are a little miffed with the French gov't right now. Seeing a 90% French citizen support rate for their leader when he takes actions like that doesn't make us feel warm and cozy about the French unfortunately.
And the French help during the revolution was much needed and appreciated...even though it is questionable as to that being the act that turned the tides of the war...we've amply paid back that debt of gratitude. Don't debate it with me - take it up with the over 5,000 US troops that died within the first 24 hours of Normandy, coming to show the ULITIMATE sacrifice to free a country that wasn't theirs. Next time the French gov't needs military help or gets in a crunch don't expect the US to come running to your aide with soldiers or goods. The actions of the French gov't have detrimentally affected relations with the US for a great time to come. Don't take my word - do some research and look at the US politians views towards the French gov't now.
Et al,
How can you support troops without supporting their mission? These are soldiers - they are doing their job they train for day in and out - war and killing - wake up and smell the reality. I'd love to see someone tell a soldier to his/her face - I support you but your not your president or these actions. Kinda like telling Lance Armstrong you support him but are strongly against his goals....doesn't make much sense does it? So the bottom line is by definition you CAN'T support the troops without supporting their goals. I'd much rather have someone voice a legitimate preference for peace than a half-arsed statement trying to blend in somewhere between protesting and supporting.
Boycotting French stuff won't do anything fruitful. You think the gov't will be affected? Hah! Loss of business will initially, and usually, affect the front line workers. Being laid off sucks no matter where you are from. Off to buy more Time pedals!
Finally, has anybody ever had their political opinion swung by what is posted on mtbr? I doubt it, if anything people's viewpoints have only been bolstered by increasing resentment from the other sides points - especially since most of the time it ends up in name calling. I feel like quoting my favorite line about arguing on the internet but since I responded I'm participating...I'm a loser boy too! |
| Pathetic! | BFinlay
Mar 28, 2003 8:38 AM | | what is pathetic is that you are wrong on where our oil comes from. only about 12% of the US's oil comes from the middle east. and not all of that comes from Iraq. |
| Those numbers are very arguable ... | Philber
Mar 28, 2003 10:27 AM | | While the U.S. Department of Energy statistics show that 12% of US imported oil comes from the Persian gulf (the vast majority of it from Saudi Arabia and comparatively little of it from Iraq), these numbers reflect only those imports where the country of origin is identified as being in the Persian Gulf.
It is widely known that Iraq routinely sells a great deal of oil on the black market, to avoid the UN restrictions on its use of oil proceeds, and that this oil finds its way to the US (and others) through various intermediaries in foreign non-Persian Gulf countries. In fact, most of the Persian Gulf oil exporting countries have been engaging in this behaviour for years, in order to avoid the quotas set on them by OPEC. If there's one thing that the Arabs are extremely good at, it's cheating.
Reasonable estimates of the proportion of oil imported by the US that comes from the Persian Gulf are more like 24%. |
| There might not have been an America w/o the French. | Locoman
Mar 28, 2003 7:17 AM | | Franco-American Treaty of 1778
When we were trying to become our own country in the Revolutionary War, things might have ended quite differently if it was not for the French. They recognized us a country and gave us support against the British at a time when we were too weak and cash strapped to dislodge them (the British). Their help turned it into a war in our favor.
If it wasn't for France there might not have been an America.
Your anti French rhetoric is pretty sad. Waving flags and eating freedom fries and pointing fingers at other countries doesn't make you right. Just means that you buy into everything someone else (big brother?) tells you. |
| canuck POV | dave66
Mar 28, 2003 7:39 AM | | freedom means do what you want... say what you want...protest how you want. That is all AW is doing. gov't do what gov't will do, but that doesn't necessarily reflect the citizens of that country.
Canada is currently led by a lame duck prime minister, who has a historical dislike of the US and a historical love of france thus explaining canada's 'official' stand on the war. But as we speak, canadian elite units are 'unofficially' operating in Iraq. I don't understand it either.
Personally I support the war effort and Bush's decision - the world is happy to sit back and let the US be the world cop in peacetime, this is just part of their role. The UN can only do so much especially when each member of the security council has a veto.
debate is good, difference of opinion is good,
just my .02 [cdn] ...... |
| Polish forces are on the ground too but get no coverage | Rev Bubba
Mar 28, 2003 9:32 AM | | 200 or so "special" units plus some chemical decontamination forces. I mentioned this because it is just about unknown to anyone outside of Poland and Iraq. Wonder how many other nations have forces operating there that we do not know about. |
| no more than 35 | laffeaux
Mar 28, 2003 12:14 PM | | The total number of countries in the "alliance" is 35. That menas that there are roughly 200 countries that either do not support or are neutal towards the alliance. Luckily we've singled out France as the lone country to disagree with the US, when in fact the US appears to be in the minority. |
| no more than 35 - not necessarily.... | dave66
Mar 28, 2003 12:31 PM | | as i said before, canada is against the war but we have troops operating there as well. |
| There might not have been an America w/o the French. | alphawolf
Mar 28, 2003 8:02 AM | | This is true but I would like to make a couple of points.
One. The world was a VERY different place at that time.
Two. What?, I have to forgo truth and the difference between right and wrong just because of something that happened over 200 years ago? Times change, people change countries change and it is obvious on this account that France would rather side with rapists, murders, those that practice genocide. than those people that stand for truth, justice and the honest desire to make the world a better place for all.
The French align themselves with terrorist for no other reason then envy and I am supposed to thank them for something that happened well over 200 years ago?
I think not. Try thanking us for saving your asses in WWII rather then stabbing us in the back.
France KNOWS its wrong and they are trying desperately to find a way out of their mistake. In this case though they are only digging themselves into a deeper and deeper pit. Soon they will never be able to get out. |
| Bzzzzt! Guess you wanted to end reasonable discussion.. | Locoman
Mar 28, 2003 8:25 AM | | Alligned with terrorists?
Get a clue.
Goodbye. |
| Bzzzzt! Guess you wanted to end reasonable discussion.. | ELi
Mar 28, 2003 7:43 PM | | Just wait until we get a little further into the war and start finding boxes of weapons & technology marked "made in France", along with all the cancelled checks from Saddam... |
| Alphawolf, you need a basic "logic" class | laffeaux
Mar 28, 2003 12:16 PM | | "The French align themselves with terrorist for no other reason then envy..."
Are you smoking crack? |
| Alphawolf, you need a basic "logic" class | alphawolf
Mar 28, 2003 7:57 PM | | Im not even going to reply to this...oh wait I just did. |
| Nothing against the French as a people... | Asscamuseless
Mar 28, 2003 8:24 AM | | but their gov't is a bit hypocritical of any crap they give us relating to our doing what we are because of business interests.
As for the Rev. war they had their reasons then(couldn't stand the Brits for one). |
| As is ours, I may add | pimpbot
Mar 28, 2003 11:06 AM | | |
| Nothing against the French as a people... | MoJo
Mar 28, 2003 9:04 PM | | wow! this is quite the flame bait! good job! Let's post something about abortion now. |
| There might not have been an America w/o the French. | ELi
Mar 28, 2003 7:41 PM | | Thanks for the statue. You're welcome for your continued existence as a free & independent nation.
-the USA |
| There might not have been an America w/o the French. | Jester-rider
Mar 28, 2003 10:27 PM | | You're right, they supported us 225 years ago, therefore we should accept their black-market dealings with Saddam today. The bottom line to me is that they are taking a harder line than is needed. We got the joke, we know they do not support the war, now sit down at a cafe and take a break - you know - like Coffee-cup Annan. I give the French credit - they supported the 1st gulf war, they just have too many sneaky oil ties with Saddam these days to dive into Baghdad.
By the way - sad that the Brits had to be the ones to suggest the resumption of oil-for-food in Iraq. Blair's pretty busy these days and you'd think that Hans Blix (I know it's not his role - work with me...:))could pick up the slack. Well then again, after months of nothing in Iraq, I'll bet he's tired. I heard that Arthur Anderson has offered to hire Blix for his special ability to deeply review systems and find no errors.
All kidding aside - God Bless our fighting men and women, I wish them a swift and safe return home. After all - there is no damn mountain biking in the desert!!!
Could you imagine how long it would take to get a Blur in Iraq?
We love our freedoom of speech and the freedom we have to buy what we want from whom we desire. Let's remember how many people have traded their lives for us to enjoy those freedoms. I know that when I go riding tomorrow, the safety I enjoy and the free, wild country I see will look slightly sweeter than before this war. It is special - let's all just go ride! |
| re: AMERICANS, America. *PLEASE READ* | sworksman
Mar 28, 2003 7:38 AM | | I agree with boycotting the French. I was also considering buying Mavic wheels for my road bike, but now I think I'll purchase some nice, made in the USA Ritcheys. France has always looked down on us even though we saved their butts in WWII. I'm not saying might makes right, but it seems the French have some kind of hidden agenda to lobby so hard against the US.
France's determination to hamper efforts for the enforcement of UN resolutions of which Iraq is clearly in breach of is unacceptible. This will affect our economy without a doubt so we should affect theirs, if even by a little bit. I have nothing personal against France, but we should send them a message.
Some French owned companies: Mavic, Look, Time, Michelin, Woodman, etc..... there are many more, someone should post a list
Sam
P.S. I did have an old Peugeot road bike with that damn French threaded bottom bracket. I always hated that thing. |
| re: AMERICANS, America. *PLEASE READ* | alphawolf
Mar 28, 2003 7:52 AM | | Thanks for bringing a bit of humor to what I consider a serious topic. I.E. your comment about the French BB. :) In dark times like these it is good to be able to laugh.
I to would like to find a list of all French companies. I would no doubt keep that list in my wallet and consult it before every purchase. |
| HERE'S A LIST OF FRENCH COMPANIES | Matno
Mar 28, 2003 9:59 AM | | Not all of them, but it's a start.
FRENCH PRODUCT LIST:
Air Liquide, Alcatel, Allegra (allergy medication), Aqualung
(including: Spirotechnique, Technisub, US Divers, and SeaQuest),
AXA Advisors Bank of the West (owned by BNP Paribas), Beneteau
(boats), BF Goodrich (owned by Michelin), BIC (razors, pens and
lighters), Biotherm (cosmetics), Black Bush, Bollinger (champagne),
Car & Driver Magazine, Cartier, Chanel, Cheese labeled "Product of
France", Chivas Regal (scotch), Christian Dior, Christian Lacroix,
Club Med (vacations), Culligan (owned by Vivendi), Daniel Cremieux,
Dannon (yogurt and dairy foods), DKNY, Dom Perignon, Durand
Crystal, Elle Magazine, Essilor Optical Products, Evian bottled
water, Fina gas stations and Fina Oil (billions invested in Iraqi
oil fields), First Hawaiian Bank, George Magazine, Givenchy,
Glenlivet (scotch), Hachette Filipacchi New Media, Hennessy,
Houghton Mifflin (books), Jacobs Creek (owned by Pernod Ricard
since 1989), Jameson (whiskey), Jerry Springer (talk show) Krups
(coffee and cappuccino makers), Lancome, Le Creuset (cookware),
L'Oreal (health and beauty products), Louis Vuitton, Magellan
Navigational Equipment, Marie Claire, Martel Cognac, Maybelline,
Méphisto (shoes and clothes), Michelin (tires and auto parts),
Mikasa (crystal and glass), Moet (champagne), Motel 6, Motown
Records, MP3.com, Mumms (champagne), Nissan (cars; majority owned
by Renault), Nivea, Normany Butter, Ondeo/Nalco Water Treatement,
Parents Magazine, Peugeot (automobiles), Perrier Sparkling Water,
Pierre Cardin, Playstation Magazine, ProScan (owned by Thomson
Electronics, France), Publicis Group (including Saatchi & Saatchi
Advertising), RCA (televisions and electronics; owned by Thomson
Electronics), Red Magazine, Red Roof Inns (owned by Accor group in
France), Renault (automobiles), Road & Track Magazine, Roquefort
cheese (all Roquefort cheese is made in France), Rowenta (toasters,
irons, coffee makers, etc,), Royal Canadian, Salomon (skis),
Seagram's Gin, Sierra Software and Computer Games, Sitram Cookware,
Smart & Final, Sofitel (hotels, owned by Accor), Sparkletts (water,
owned by Danone), Spencer Gifts, Sundance Channel, Taylor Made
(golf), Technicolor, T-Fal (kitchenware), Total gas stations,
UbiSoft (computer games), Uniroyal, Universal Studios (music,
movies and amusement parks; owned by Vivendi-Universal), USFilter,
Veuve Clicquot Champagne, Vittel, VIVENDI-SEAGRAM, Wild Turkey
(bourbon), Wine and Champagne labeled "Product of France", Woman's
Day Magazine, Yoplait (The French company Sodiaal owns a 50 percent
stake), Yves Saint Laurent, Yves Rocher, Zodiac Inflatable Boats. |
| A few thoughts........... | Edub
Mar 28, 2003 7:49 AM | | First of all, if it weren't for the United States Military, the entire country that is France would be speaking German right now. Second of all, we never asked France to help out with the military action in Iraq, we simply wanted their support, and they couldn't even give us this? That's pretty sad in my opinion.
I wish I could understand why Frances' government denounces the U.S. government and the war against Iraq.
Ever hear of "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine"?
I totally support this war, our troops, our (U.S.) government, and President Bush.
Edub |
| Re: A few thoughts........... | Erok
Mar 28, 2003 5:54 PM | | I agree with your outlook on this. What people seem to loose sight of, is that it doesn't matter if you agree with the war or not, the fact is, it is happening, and no amount of protesting will change that fact. If you are a true American, you do not bad mouth your country or your president, or air your grievances in another country(Dixi Chics)or over national television (the idiot on the accademy awards) while our men and women are fighting and dying on foreign soil. Like Edub, I support this war, our troops, our government and our president, because I am an American! That is my opinion, which I am free to state. The people in Iraq wouldn't dare write something like this. You live in the greatest country in the world, be proud of it! If you don't agree with it's policies, you are also FREE to leave! |
| that has to be the lamest think I have ever read! You scare me! | pimpbot
Mar 29, 2003 4:22 PM | | "If you are a true American, you do not bad mouth your country or your president"
and
"If you don't agree with it's policies, you are also FREE to leave!"
What, are you Dick F-ing Nixon?!?
While I agree Americans seem to be a fairly whiny bunch, as in we get our panties in a twist about meaningless crap while avoiding the real problems, I find your "Love it or leave it" additude offensive. I am hear to make things better for me, my family and my fellow (wo)man, borders be damned.
That has to me the most un-American additude I have ever heard. If we follow that then we are back to servitude, as in we work for our King's country rather than the King works for us. Remember that phrase in the Declaration of Independence? I think it goes... wait I have to look it up (/me thumbs furiously though the Dec of I) uh...
"We the People?"
I want you to see something very important... Notice it does not say "We the tools of the fascists in charge in order to form a more perfect leader, establish injustice and ensure domestic servitude.' No, it says nothing at all to that effect.
I agree that is not a good idea to question your superior officers in a military heirarchy, who's chain of command ends with the President. If I sign up, I work for him (or her).
We the people are not in the military. We did not sign away our right to question those in charge. It is our job to make this a better nation, not serve the guy at in the White House. If I signed up, I would not be posting this message.
I'm not a peacenick per se. I understand that sometimes we have to go to war when all else failes. The military has my full respect and if anybody can pull this off with a minimum of lost life, our fighing men and women can do it. They are top notch. They are sacraficing it all just to serve us.
This country isn't here to benifit members of the Gov't. They work for us. This is not a monarchy, people! The last thing this country needs it to be tools of the powers that be. We already have WAY to much of that already.
I mean really, are you saying that an Americans only have the right to express their opinions so long as you agree with them? That's the lamest, most narrow minded thing I have ever heard. Is your position so weak that it cannot withstand arguement? If your position is strong then no harm done, right? Debate is good. Sedition is good.
Can you honestly say you were standing by Clinton during Lewinski-Gate? Personally, I was laughing my ass off at him. In my opinion he was an okay president, he got a lot done, but he was personally a mess.
I fully supprort you to express your opinion on the matter so long as you support mine to think you're a bonehead. Hey, this is America, you can think what you want and so can I, and please do lest we become Iraq under Saddam where people are executed for making eye contact with him.
Here's a Quote from Teddy Roosavelt about the first WW.
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we
are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and
servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."
Theodore Roosevelt, 1918
Remeber, "We the people" are in charge, and the moment that we aren't I'll move to Canada because America will no longer be here or be a great country. |
| re: AMERICANS, America. *PLEASE READ* | rb
Mar 28, 2003 8:05 AM | | "What a bunch of ungrateful, nose in the air people the French turned out to be. Who would have thought?"
I'd like to address that last comment. My wife and I spent two weeks in France in 2001, from Paris, to the Alps, to the South of France. I saw several moving memorials to the Americans who died in WWII, and fail to see how even that extreme sacrifice requires France to forever blindly follow us into any war we choose to start (not to mention that our country has not been invaded by Iraq, as France was by Germany). We encountered little of the "nose in the air" attitude that our American stereotype of the French had led me to believe existed; in fact, I would say that the people we encountered were much friendlier than those on many of the American vacations we've taken. On a number of occasions, people who observed us trying to find our way, or figure out a train schedule, etc., and heard us speaking English, would come up unsolicited and offer assistance. Now, we went to the trouble of learning a few words of French and didn't go barging around yelling in English expecting everyone to understand what we wanted and immediately act on it, so maybe we didn't experience what many Americans might have.
If France is the USA's enemy than so are the millions of people around the world and in America who oppose this war. At some point we're going to have to realize that we can't bully everybody into doing things our way.
Peace. |
| re: AMERICANS, America. *PLEASE READ* | alphawolf
Mar 28, 2003 8:17 AM | | Im not sure I understand this whole post. I would like to make some comments on it.
One. I personally have never been to France. There are times I have wanted to go (no desire now though). I have been to Scotland and Europe and truly enjoy the different atmosphere and lifestyle outside the US.
I have talked to many people that have gone to France though. And everyone of them have said that yes, for the most part French people are nice enough but that there is in fact and underling current of anti-American sentiment. I understand I am relying on word of mouth here but the sources I get this information from I trust. And it seems to be verified by the news these days.
A small point, Lance Armstrong has been tested for drugs more then any other rider. 95% by France. They hate us for no other reason that we excel at everything far beyond them. Envy plain and simple.
Your experience was good in France and I am truly happy for you. That doesn't change the facts though.
And no.they are not indebt to us for anything but they are obviously ungrateful. |
| Who needed 'em anyway? Pass the Bordeaux. (nm) | litespeedchick
Mar 28, 2003 8:18 AM | | |
| Please remove head from anus! | BamaSS
Mar 28, 2003 8:51 AM | | Er, OK then, let's try this shall we....
The French have better food, better schools, beautiful language, better public transport, make great bike parts, have a more worldly view of things, have better culture/arts/music e.t.c and better fashion sense (although the latter is true of just about any nation when compared to the US).
So, if you wanna get all jeaous that some little tiny country has got the better of you on the world stage, that's YOUR PROBLEM. If your way of dealing with it is to start name-calling and cry like a kid, then don't expect the rest of the planet to play along with your silly games.
I think the fact that this war has already lasted over a week and they haven't even got to Baghdad yet says a lot about just how much hot air is being spouted by the Bush administration.
Vive la difference ! |
| Please remove head from anus! | alphawolf
Mar 28, 2003 9:07 AM | | This post is only more proof of people that simply dont get it.
I just cant believe there are so many people in the world that actually go out of there way not to abide with truth.
This isnt a football game folks. You cant choose sides just because you like ones name or color better then another.
This is about right and worng. |
| ..."Right or Wrong" in YOUR Opinion | SCHeck
Mar 28, 2003 10:27 AM | | Who made you the disseminator of "absolute" truth? Your ideas on things (i.e., right and wrong) remind me of a certain President in office ;) |
| ..."Right or Wrong" in YOUR Opinion | alphawolf
Mar 28, 2003 8:02 PM | | Hey its simple.
Right is right and wrong is wrong. We are all born with the knowlege of what this is. We can choose to listen to it or not.
How do we know what right and whats wrong? Simple if somone does something you you and you dont like it..guess what? Its a pretty good bet that if you do the same thing to someone else ...they arent going to like it either. There are obvious exceptions to this rule ....but for the most part its that simple. |
| Please remove head from anus! | ProudofUSA
Mar 28, 2003 3:38 PM | | alphawolf,
I applaud you. If these individuals are so anti-war, anti-bush. They have the "right", (because of our military), to leave. I wish they all would. They can take Alec Baldwin, Michael Moore, Mr. Actor President Sheen, Tim Robbins and his tramp all out of the country with them......Good bye pro-Saddaam fans. (Keep in mind he helped fund Alqueida) |
| (Keep in mind he helped fund Alqueida) | SCHeck
Mar 28, 2003 5:05 PM | | Yes, we proof of that. George Bush said so. |
| Please remove head from anus! | pimpbot
Mar 29, 2003 4:30 PM | | "Keep in mind he helped fund Alqueida"
The US gov't also funded Al Queda. Remeber the Afghan war in the 80's. That was all our dollars put to 'good' use. |
| Please remove head from anus! | sworksman
Mar 28, 2003 10:48 AM | | Give me a break! The French make good parts but if you have to buy something from Europe, buy Italian or British. Italians have cooler stuff, anyway. As far as better schools, beauttiful language, etc., just ask them, they'll tell you-while they look down on you. |
| what? | jasonwa
Mar 28, 2003 5:01 PM | | How fast the war is supposed to be is being spread by the liberal media. Only so when it takes longer,they can say"hey ,why is it taking so long".very typical.the president has clearly said"how ever long it takes to succeed" Lets keep this in mind.No i dont think i am going to boycott french products cause i love michelin tires.What the french administration says has nothing to do with the owners of french successfull companys.I know there are people out there boycotting american made products. I am not going to let that get me down and retalliate.If i love how a product performs and think they are the best than i am getting it no matter what.other people are going to do this too. |
| Enough w/ this crap!!!!!!!!!! | David Coverdale
Mar 28, 2003 9:17 AM | | |
| Ignorance is bliss | JimC.
Mar 28, 2003 9:35 AM | | the French would ask where you were for the 1st TWO world wars? I guess Hitler wasn't really a threat, right? If Japan hadn't bombed Pearl Harbor, it's entirely possible we'd all be speaking German right now.
The only thing wrong with your arguement is the whole thing is based on your emotions, not global fact.
Grow up, do some homework before you shoot your mouth off. You sure aren't helping your cause.
Jim |
| From an American Patriot | Martino
Mar 28, 2003 10:02 AM | | Dear,
I am not sure if you have noticed the numbers:
190 nations in the UN, 40 support the USA government
4 nations have provided soldiers: USA (250,000), UK (40,000), australia (2,000), Poland (200)
250 to 330 Civilian (http://www.iraqbodycount.net/), a few tousands of military IRAQs, about 60 coalition forces ... DEAD.
Best regards |
| Maybe people would like the Americans more ... | Philber
Mar 28, 2003 10:15 AM | | ... if they'd stop blowing people up. Just a thought.
For that past 100 years, US foreign policy has been to install dictators friendly to the US, by whatever covert, subversive or violent means available, in any country with enough natural resources to make it worthwhile, and then to pay off the dictator while raping the country of its riches. When the dictator decides he's not going to tow the US line anymore, or the people get fed up and depose the dictator, then the US declares war in the country (for humanitarian or democratic or other convenient reasons) and bombs the snot out of it. Funny how the the US doesn't feel strongly about human rights or democracy in countries that don't have a lot natural resources.
Having now done this, or attempted to do it, in a great many countries around the world (Libya, Iran, Iraq, Korea, Guatemala, Panama, Columbia, Cuba, Indonesia, Congo, Peru, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Afghanistan and Grenada, just to name a few), the US hasn't made itself very popular.
I actually support the US military action in Iraq, and I deplore the French, but for Americans like you not to understand why the world refuses to go along with its foreign policy wars shows profound ignorance IMO. |
| A few more thoughts.. | AEM
Mar 28, 2003 10:16 AM | | I am agianst this war in every way, I hate to see my country act unilaterally in the international stage. Yes, we have freedoms that others may not, however with those freedoms come responsibility. It is my opinion that our country should assume the role of a steward of international diplomacy and peace, rather than an agent of war. For Frances part, I blame them for poor, poor diplomacy in the face of our rampage. They should have let the vote go through, let all countrys stand and be counted, whatever the outcome.
France and Russia, whose faltering economys are largely oil based, like our own, may see our movements in Iraq as leveraging the majority of the mid-east oil supply (which they of course had their eye on) for our interests. I dont know what washingtons plans are, but this situation has the potential to put us in a position of supreme economic power over these countries. Perhaps they feel threatend? I dont know.
So now, we have our war. We won, so to speak. But I think that we have lost. Lost respect from our neighbors on the earth. Lost lives of American boys who didnt need to die. Lost the right to champion international democracy, as evidenced by the failure of diplomacy. Now, after reading this anti-French sentiment, I am begining to feel that we are loosing our national dignity, that which was in part won as a result of brave acts such as the liberation of France in WWII.
Remember: The first American patriots had the nerve to question government. We fought for our independance by breaking the rules and conventions of war. Patriotism is a love of ones country, not its governent. |
| Very well put... | SCHeck
Mar 28, 2003 10:34 AM | | I commend you, as I'm sure many others do, on your rational (and well-informed) perspectives on this situation. |
| A few more thoughts.. | alphawolf
Mar 28, 2003 8:10 PM | | err.... are you serious?
Please open your mind and actually think for yourself. If for no other reason then fight for right and wrong... this war is completely justified. |
| You gotta be kidding me!! Have you even been to France? | pimpbot
Mar 28, 2003 10:52 AM | | In my experience, the French are generally a nice buncha people. Some are rude, true, but it seems those rude ones get all the attention. The thing is, the rude ones aren't rude only to Americans, but to everybody, and the rude ones seem to be centered around Paris in my experience. Paris is a breally big city, like New York. Can you say New York is a polite town?
C'mon, expand your mind a bit. |
| AlphaWolf...You are a LITTLE, LITTLE Man.... | YaMon
Mar 28, 2003 11:10 AM | | I bet you have never traveled out the the country. People like you that group everyone together have no understanding of world economics. You all think of the US as being the end all. With all the problems in China and how they treat their people, isn't it a wonder why the US has never gone after them and even gives them full trading status. Why do you think the entire Arab world is against us.....maybe because we are kissing Israel's ass? Guess what the Jewish people own and operate here in the US. You would be amazed and frightened to know. Get with it stupid. Just because someone has a different opinion does'nt mean they are against you. Isn't it waht you people call freedom of speech ?? You really reinforce the term " Dumb American ".
Later Mon. |
| AlphaWolf...You are a LITTLE, LITTLE Man.... | alphawolf
Mar 28, 2003 8:18 PM | | Hey glad you agree with me.
Bet all you like about whether I have been out of the country. The truth is I have as you would know if you had read some of my other post. The truth is I loved it. Scotland was a very cool place.
Please think about what I am going to say. And think about it hard. You have every right to disagree with me. If your right great if I am right great. The people of Iraq cant even disagree..they don't have that right. The only rights they have are what's given by Saddam. Those rights include rape, torture and murder for everyone if they do not do EXACTLY what they are told. I wonder.how do you feel about children being forced to fight for Saddam. Or wait.. I bet you believe those children love Saddam so much that he can't keep them from fighting for him.
Well.? |
| re: AMERICANS, America. *PLEASE READ* | Mommy
Mar 28, 2003 11:15 AM | | 1.) I don't care about any anti-French sentiment. If you don't like them, then don't buy, but don't clutter our boards by starting any pseudo-patriotism/anti-France messages.
2.) Boycotting their products doesn't send a message if it's not related by the media, and even then, it's weak...the French will just laugh at you and say "OK, who cares, don't buy it then!"
a.) Remember the wine boycott a few weeks ago? Yeah, me either...that's how effective boycotting is.
3.) If you're so anti-France, I suggest YOU leave the country, and bomb their government officials, instead of trying--note I say TRYING--to prove a point by telling others to leave the country. And yes, I'm using the same tactic, so you can see just how ridiculous it is.
4.) STOP MAKING ME CLUTTER UP OUR MESSAGE BOARD WITH USELESS CRAP!!!!
Your Mother |
| re: AMERICANS, America. *PLEASE READ* | sworksman
Mar 28, 2003 11:48 AM | | You bring up interesting points about the anti-French sentiment. I agree that boycotting French products, cycling or otherwise, probably won't change much, but I put this to you--- how much resistance would Iraq put up if a UN coalition force came down on Iraq instead of just our smaller coalition? France repeatedly blocked any UN intervention. The US is seen as a better target for arab opinion than a UN sponsored coalition. France's refusal to help may in fact cause a more severe humanitarian crisis in Iraq for both Iraqis and US-led coalition forces and draw out the war. |
| re: AMERICANS, America. *PLEASE READ* | Mommy
Mar 28, 2003 1:59 PM | | Sworksman, I completely agree with what you're saying, but my point is that a boycott will not change French opinion. Imagine this: the French suddenly stop eating at McDonalds because they hate Americans. Who among us would actually give a damn? We (at least most of us, I'd assume) aren't stockholders in McDonald's (and if you are, I'm sorry since stock has been going down horribly); thus, why should we care? The French government isn't going to change their public opinion based on what bicycle part consumers will/will not purchase. Now, if it were gold/silver (assuming these are extremely important minerals), I could see a change.
As for the French hindering our efforts in Iraq, I see what you're saying; the war and rebuilding of Iraq could be faster and more efficient with their help, BUT...it is too late to change that. Even if we had begun a boycott of bicycle parts before the war--as many did with their wine--it wouldn't have changed the government position.
As for the world's opinion on us: I personally believe they have the right to see us as a "bad" country due to our--although belated--preemptive strike upon Iraq. If Bush really wanted Hussein out, he should have had him assassinated covertly (not that I condone that).
It's all about the difference between the individual and the collective I suppose. |
| re: AMERICANS, America. *PLEASE READ* | alphawolf
Mar 28, 2003 8:25 PM | | Umm yeah... Im going to leave the country and bomb France.
Are you sane?
Anyway..the whole purpose of my original post was to get people thinking. Ive been in the market for a new wheel set and have made a conscious decision not to by French made materials. That is my right as a free individual.
France is not just "Only disagreeing with America" they have clearly sided with the Iraqi regime. Whether it's because of the oil contract they had and didn't want to lose. Whether it's because of the weapons technology and weapons they have sold in direct violation to the UN resolutions..who cares pick one.
I have freedom to make these decisions just as you have the freedom to blast me.
The Iraqi people have no freedom.NONE. All thanks to Saddams regime..and you can somehow in your mind justify why its alright to allow that to continue???
One day someone is going to have to try and explain that one to me. |
| re: AMERICANS, America. *PLEASE READ* | IbisAlibi440
Mar 28, 2003 10:25 PM | | Did he say you didn't? Idiot. |
| I don't understand how.... | Edub
Mar 28, 2003 11:38 AM | | any American can be againt the US involvement in Iraq. We are not over there to flex our muscles to the world to show everybody we can eliminate a dictator......again. Let me remind everybody that IRAQ HAS BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION!!!! Do you think they are producing these to sit in warehouses for the rest of time? We can't sit back and let Sadaam produce these weapons at will. I think everybody agrees that he produced these for a purpose.
Let me ask those opposed to the war: Are you saying that we should just turn our back on what they are producing over there? Ignoring the situation is not going to make it go away.
In order to eliminate the production of these weapons, we must eliminate the regime producing them.
Edub |
| when and who will the US be invaded? | laffeaux
Mar 28, 2003 12:25 PM | | The last time I checked the United States has "weapons of mass destruction." While we do not consider ourselves a "rouge" state, we still have all of the weapons that we claim that Iraq has. Not to mention that Israel, India, Pakistan, Russia, and probably North Korea have these weapons as well. Who should invade who next?
A lot has to do with your point of view, right? If you were not pro-US would it bother you that your enemy (i.e. the US) had these weapons? |
| when and who will the US be invaded? | Edub
Mar 28, 2003 12:46 PM | | Sure, we all have weapons of mass destruction, but we do not have BIOLOGICAL weapons like the ones being produced in Iraq. Biological weapons are against United Nation laws. Why do you think Iraq wouldn't let us inspect their facilities (thus starting this conflict)?
Edub |
| where did they get them? | laffeaux
Mar 28, 2003 1:20 PM | | Q: How do we know that Iraq has biological weapons?
A: We saved the receipts.
If we sold anthrax to Iraq, does it not stand to reason that we also have said weapons? We have the germs. We have the delivery mechanism. Hmmm...
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0908-08.htm
I'm not implying that we are a threat, or that Iraq is not. Just that the situation is not a cut and dry "the US are the good guys out saving the world" scenario. It's taken many years to for the situation in the middle east to develop, and the US was a major contributor to the mess that we currently have. We're fighting a regime that in the 1980s were our friends. Their policies are significantly different now than they were when we supported them. The difference is that we wanted to change the Iranian government in the 1980s, and we want to change Iraq's now. |
| wrong | JimC.
Mar 28, 2003 1:41 PM | | USA has had, used, and still has biological weapons. Read up on Vietnam, Agent Orange, for but 1 example. Jeez, the misinformation on this site is abominable. Proving yet again - the first thing to go in war is the truth.
Jim |
| Bio-Weapons | AEM
Mar 28, 2003 2:01 PM | | Agent Orange, wow. For something really interesting, look into the use and implications of the depleted Uranium rounds that we have been using in Iraq, Kosovo, Vieques, etc. While the press is scaring the be-jeebers out of the American public with stories of 'dirty bombs'containing minute amounts of Cesium Chloride from Soviet era nuclear projects we are littering the world with radioactive material, this has been implicated as not only a cause of 'Gulf War Syndrome' but of skyrocketing rates of birth defects in the areas of application. But hey, they slice through armour like butter! |
| eyow... | JimC.
Mar 28, 2003 2:30 PM | | as an old phart and baby boomer from WW2, the more I look at weapons and war history, the scarier it gets. I'm frustrated in that common sense never seems to prevail; religion starts wars, idiots start wars, politicians start wars, and millions if not billions have died over centuries proving yet again that war is simply the failure of compromise and negotiation. and teh instagators almost never get killed, or so it seems.
I wish I had a good answer. For now, I can only hope, pray, ride and do the best I can to help keep us all friends and not infight with each other.
War sucks, or in terms I now know and understand (didn't when I was younger)...
War is Hell. Simple as that. There are no winners. And it's never simple.
Jim |
| well said, Jim (nm) | laffeaux
Mar 28, 2003 2:40 PM | | |
| Make love.... | Cook
Mar 29, 2003 12:42 PM | | ...not war.
Okay, screw that......roll a big one and chill, then turn off CNN.
Religion....I agree. The curse to end all curses. |
| Good point | pimpbot
Mar 29, 2003 4:42 PM | | And yes, for the most part cooler heads have prevailed. No nuclear weapons have been used in war since, well, we used them. Good think nukes are pretty dang hard to build or we'd be in some serious doo-doo.
And Dubya, by the way, it pronounced Noo-Clee-ar not Noo-Kyoo-Ler!
I hope he's just sabre rattling when he says he'll use battlefield nukes, or the UN may concider us a threat and invade us. |
| re: AMERICANS, America. *PLEASE READ* | IntenseRon
Mar 28, 2003 12:33 PM | | For what it's worth I boycotted Mavic long ago for the simple reason that their customer service is absolutely terrible (they should be called customer interrogation) and in many cases their parts don't live up to the rep people seem to think they have. Case in point: about 5 years ago I purchased a set of Crossmax disc wheels (not many choices for disc compatible wheels then) and immediately had a problem with the rear hub making way too much noise. Mavic was far more interested in interrogating me and proving I had done something to damage the hub than they were interested in helping me out. This on a one week old mountain hub! I ended up having to pay for new bearings myself. What a ripoff. Also, several of my friends have cracked 517s quite quickly to the point that they will not use them or any Mavic rim anymore.
Some poor misinformed soul in this post seems to think the French make better parts than we do, so my question to you is; for your next hubset are you going Chris King or broke on delivery whatever goes wrong is your fault wait 2-3 weeks while we service at your expense our proprietary only serviceable by us crap Mavic? |
| The truth about France | Roadkill
Mar 28, 2003 1:57 PM | | Some of you morons out there think people like myself who are against the French for not supporting the US, don't have a clue. You have no idea the reason why France is not supporting us. The US government knows this, but would never publicly say it. The French don't want us to go to war with Iraq because they're afraid of what we will find once we destroy Saddam's regime. They've been doing business with Iraq for a long time and has become quite wealthy from it, selling Iraq weapons and whatever else necessary to manufacture weapons of mass destruction. This applies to China as well, because they're the ones who built and setup the fiber optics for Iraq's communication and development of weapons of mass destruction. So all you morons out there who are not supporting the war and our troops, just sit back and be a coward and let the heroes of this country do there job and protect our freedom while putting their lives on the line. |
| One thing... | Heywood_Jablowme
Mar 28, 2003 2:09 PM | | There's a difference between not supporting Anti-French sentiment, and not supporting our own troops. My best friend is a medic over there right now, and I support him 100%. In fact, I think getting Saddam out is a good thing! I DON'T, however, support the notion that we should be against France for not wanting to support the war; they have a right to their own opinion. It'd be like looking down on the one Black Panther who doesn't want to kill the head of the KKK (to cite an extreme case). |
| I do support our troops -- that is why I am against this war... | Papa Wheelie
Mar 28, 2003 2:27 PM | | ...if Bush II's goal was to really "disarm" Saddam, I think we could have done it without force. I believe that sending in US soldiers at this point in time is premature and will result in the needless loss of life. The reason I am against this war is not because I don't "support the troops". Quite the opposite! I can be against this war -- because I don't believe it is the right thing to do at this time -- and still "support our troops" -- bring them home. They don't need to die. This can be done without war -- there are (were) other alternatives. If you really truly "support our troops" why do you want to hastily send them into battle? Wouldn't you prefer to not endanger their lives unless it was the last possible option?
I am sure somebody else could have summed this up more eloquently than myself, but I never claimed to be a poet. One last thing... consider it a friendly tip... if you want to convince somebody that you are right, it helps if you don't call them a moron. I am generally open to new ideas, and I do like to hear differing opinions. I do change my mind on a lot of things. However, once somebody starts with the name calling, I tend to not take them very seriously. Try and make your point without name calling and intimidation -- it really does work better.
"...Of course the people don't want war...That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
Quote by Herman Goering, Adolf Hitler's Deputy Chief and Luftwaffe Commander, at the Nuremberg trials, 1946. From "Nuremberg Diary: by G.M. Gilbert" (Signet New York 1947). |
| Incredible Quote - Thank You. | AEM
Mar 28, 2003 3:52 PM | | Nazi Germany was an extreme example of what can happen when propaganda, misinformation, scapegoating, and military might get out of control.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2003/0304.marshall.html
Although this is an MTB board, it is important to know that things are not business as usual. That would be really scary!
Hey, anyone know what color alert we are in now? |
| speaking of morons | JimC.
Mar 28, 2003 2:48 PM | | position on the war aside, the CIA assisted Sadam into power with a coupe in the late '70's. The USA used to buy 1/4 of Iran's oil output until the last war in '91. The USA backed Iraq and supplied lots of whatever they wanted to fight Iran through the '80's.
ALL western countries share in the responsibility of letting Sadam get out of hand, including the US and France and Germany and Canada and Italy and Russia and......
So focus on how to help end this quickly and with as few lost lives as possible.
Jim |
| speaking of morons | ELi
Mar 28, 2003 7:57 PM | | well, if as you say "all the western countries share in the reposibilty of letting saddam get out of hand", then shouldn't ALL those same countries aid in the effort to disarm & disassemble his regime?
"I'd rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." -General Patton |
| re: AMERICANS, America. *PLEASE READ* | JDZ
Mar 28, 2003 2:59 PM | | I'm also wary of buying French products. Unfortunately I bought a new Nissan (owned by Renault) last year before this problem occured. I would have shopped elsewhere if I had known. I have no problem with anyone else buying French products and would not try to push a boycott on anybody but for me, I do find their position on Iraq to be very unsupportive of the US. Therefore, I would like to be unsupportive of their economy. I've got every right to purchase goods and services from whoever I like. Basing that on political views is perfectly ethical, in my mind. There sure are alot of boycotts of American products around the world. I can't even say that I agree with our decision to go outside the UN to attack Iraq but basically we were put in that position by France who made it very clear that they would veto any new resolution. Considering their economic interest in Iraq, I find that unethical. |
| F(_)CK YOU America | Canuck
Mar 28, 2003 7:12 PM | | Okay, boycotting the french is retarded. We have a show here which is called talking to Americans and it interviews american's and proves your ignorance. We even interviewed Bush and told him our Prime minister was named Jean Poutine. And he bought it, some american's are retarded, and that BS about WW2, you Goddam americans only joined the war after the Japanese bombed the hell out of you. And most of america's Oil come from, where else? CANADA!!!!!! Not the middle east, you're an ignorant, gun happy, country, that is hell bent on world domination, if someone says F uck you to america they bombed because you guys are jerks. As if the makers of MAVIC rims, have anything to do with their governments decision regarding war, I'm sorry you people make me sick! |
| LOL! Please add more comments to bury yourself further. (nm) | ladge
Mar 28, 2003 7:27 PM | | |
| F(_)CK YOU America | alphawolf
Mar 28, 2003 8:39 PM | | Hey cool now we have something in common.
I never had a problem with France or French people until what's recently happened in the UN. Sure I have heard stories..everyone has but I never paid any attention to them.
Recent events have shown that the stories I have heard are apparently, or have been subdued compared to the real truth.
You hate America great. You have that right.
I can honestly say I don't have France or French people. Hate implies fear but even if it didn't I still don't hate France. I do dislike France though and it's a very real dislike now. I sat in awe as I watched the U.N. drama play out. Dumfounded no less. It was very much like two completely different worlds. One the French saw. Saddam who loved his people and nurtured them. Two, America who saw a murderer who practices Genocide on his own people.
All I can say is that I have never been to Iraq so I don't truly know anything as fact. What I do know is that when this war is over we ARE going to know the truth abut everything. I truly believe that France has been fighting tooth and nail to keep us from going into Iraqi because they know we are going to find that they have been doing allot of things they should not have been (France that is). Selling illegal stuff to Iraqi for no other reason then profit. Kind of like a child who's been selling drugs and doesn't want his parents to find out at all costs.
We shall see what we shall see. |
| We apologize and I have a suggestion | Jester-rider
Mar 28, 2003 10:52 PM | | I feel bad for your illness. I offer you a cure.
Do not associate yourself with us nasty people. Do not buy our products. Do not visit our websites (see ya). Do not use our medicines or frequent our beaches in Florida.
I reccommend you cut all ties with America. That ought to make your life better.
By the way, if we were really hell-bent for world domination as you proclaim, I can think of a choice little piece of property due north that is prime for the taking. If we were really hell-bent for oil domination you'd send your tax return to Uncle Sam.
Don't get me wrong, I actually adore Canada and Canadians. We all share our opinions.
P.S. Mr.'Americans are dumb'. You did not forward your cause for Canadian intellectual supremacy with your particular flare for butchering the rules of grammar.
Study-up and try again in a year school boy... |
| HELL, YEAH, Jester-rider | sworksman
Mar 29, 2003 8:12 AM | | HELL YEAH! Canuck needs some insight! We all know what a player Canada is on the world stage. |
| Well said Jester-rider | Edub
Mar 29, 2003 7:53 AM | | Hey Canuck, get a f()cking life. So just because we are defending ourselves from terrorists and Sadaam, we are hell bent on world domination? You are a little man, Canuck, and as Jester-rider said, learn a little grammer, throw in a few American history classes, and feel free to respond in a year or so.
Edub |
| thought this was funny | hurricanebama
Mar 28, 2003 10:27 PM | | I got this email earlier. Thought it was interesting......
Approach ignorant moron talking about "peace" and saying that there should be "no retaliation".
Engage in brief conversation; ask if military force is appropriate.
When he says "No," ask, "Why not?"
Wait until he says something to the effect of, "Because this would just cause a vicious circle of more innocent deaths, which would be awful and we should not cause more violence."
When he's in mid sentence, punch him in the face as hard as you can.
When he is about to punch you back, point out that it would be a serious mistake and contrary to his values to strike you, because that would "be awful and he should not cause more violence."
Wait until he agrees that he has pledged not to commit additional violence.
Punch him in the face again, harder this time. Repeat steps until he understands that sometimes it is necessary to punch back. |
| re: AMERICANS, America. *PLEASE READ* | kanaka
Mar 28, 2003 10:51 PM | | Hey, I work for a french company
If we get boycotted, I could lose my job. I guess if I had any real convictions, I would just resign and go back in the Marines |
| yo, KANAKA | sworksman
Mar 29, 2003 8:29 AM | | I admit, that's pretty funny -in a macabre sense,of course. But really, if a scenario like this or close to this went down, the US would rush to help France or any counrty in peril. That's what a civilized nation does. God bless America, and God bless our troops and all of the coalition forces who choose to help us in this conflict. |
| Was this meant to be self-satirical? | Tscheezy
Mar 28, 2003 11:21 PM | | I sure hope so. If not, I'd stop eating lead-based paint if I were you. |
| Well... | JerseyDevil
Mar 29, 2003 11:18 AM | | ...now that we got that off our chests, it's time to put the keyboard away and GO RIDE A BIKE!
Everyone should feel better after that, unless you blow a shock out, crack your frame, or taco a wheel. |
| LMAO! | pimpbot
Mar 29, 2003 4:50 PM | | I gotta remember that line. it's right up there with "That's what happens when cousins marry! |
| *PLEASE*..... | Cook
Mar 29, 2003 12:31 PM | | ...bugger off. |
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