|   NRS: Rear suspension set-up for more plushness | Tom Traynor
Apr 24, 2003 11:21 AM | | Any downside in setting the NRS rear suspension just at bodyweight in the + chamber and some level above the recommended 50 lbs. in the - chamber (in other words, right AT the sag threshold)?
This seems to plush it up quite a bit without crazy bob occuring. Anyone with experience on this bike have an opinion? |
| Giant factory wrench rode his that way | derby
Apr 24, 2003 12:04 PM | | When I test rode the first edition NRS a few years ago at a race expo I asked to try it with a little bit of sag. The guy from Giant setting up the test rides told me he rode his NRS that way.
I think he added negative air pressure rather than lowering the positive pressure, so the travel still wouldn't bottom out.
I liked the ride much better with a little sag. But it still wasn't as smooth riding as the Superlight I rode back then (and now my Tracer is much smoother riding and even more stable overall than the Superlight ever was).
- ray |
| Here you go: | Trevor!
Apr 24, 2003 1:54 PM | | I am 150Lbs so I used 160lbs in the positive and in the negative I used 30psi less at 130psi and the bike rode much better. This setting will introduce some sag but no bob - well no bob for me anyhow!
May I make a suggestion. If you have $65 lying around you could purchases some 4.5" rockers for the bike. I just did and also a few other NRS riders that frequent this board alot. Check this post out for some additional information: http://forums13.consumerreview.com/crforum?viewall@@.efa3fe3
NO bob or no nothing what so ever with these rockers! just like std nrs setup!
These rockers are perfectly made and feature the same fittings that are featured on the true Giant Branded rockers. The craftmanship is perfect and the person who makes/sells them is very helpful and very fast in his service.
Hope this helps a little. Be sure to check out the rockers!
Here is the email address of the company that sells them: sgfcomponents@charter.net |
| The Giant was designed to be run with NO sag | ohb1
Apr 25, 2003 6:50 AM | | when you crank on the pedals the giants suspension is designed to expand. This is supposed to work with a topped out shock. Hence a lockout when pedaling and suspension when not pedaling. Setting up the bike with sag is going to cause bob in the opposite direction.
For all the people looking for a plush NRS... Giants aren't going to be plush. they weren't designed for it. if that's what you want is a plush bike why'd you buy a giant? They are not fully active pedaling or braking. IMO is not a good thing.
Here's a tip to avoid good ol' bob. Practice riding one leg at a time. this will help you develope a smooth pedal stroke. Most of the time bob occurs is because the rider is bouncing around on the seat with each pedal stroke. practicing smooth pedaling will make you a better climber too allowing the rear to maintain traction. |
| Thanks for the insight ummmmmmmm while I am at it | Trevor!
Apr 25, 2003 2:56 PM | | * An NRS can be plush indeed
* The definition of 'Plush' will change from person to person. For example some people think that a softail is 'plush'
* NRS cannot be compared by to the traits of a Fully active bike. A fully active bike by definition will indeed have bob of some kind. Thats a true "Fully Active" bike! And upon brakeing well.....
* Giants are plush just not as plush as some other bikes
* That excercise is a really good one indeed. I have a reasonable pedal stroke but do that from time to time. It also strengthins the muscle!
* I they may my new plusher NRS is setup doesnt bob (To the eye anyhow) |
| Prob one of the most plush NRS's around pic | Duckman
Apr 24, 2003 2:25 PM | | ...03 nrs1 frame build with 4.5"s of travel in the rear run with about .8-.10th of an inch regarding sag. Front is a Fox Vanilla R with a custom spacer setup for 4.4" of badass travel..or 110mm for the rest out there. Setup like this regarding frame geo is pretty much perfect for a well balanced ride from fastass pisgah descents to the big climb just before. This frame is noticeably stiffer then my 02 M frame or my buds 01 M frame nrs1. Setup like this, it seems it goes over anything and everything at what seems like 3-5mph faster then my more traditional NRS with a SID Team on the front and a Float RC on the back. It can also turn the same lap times as Blankets Creek as my 23lb nrs setup more or less race specific, and thats with the ust wheelset, now that i think about it. I think that says something in itself, meaning you can have both if one is careful not to mismatch stuff. In this pic with this wheelset, its 25.5lbs. With the UST it gains a pound total, as i cheated and run a 180gm 11-27 duraace cassette with it on this ride now(pic was last weekend). Grannys now a 20t, which is plenty for me with the 27t rear. |
| Prob one of the most plush NRS's around pic | Tom Traynor
Apr 24, 2003 4:51 PM | | Anybody put a Cloud Nine on? Some claim increased plushness. Probably best to do one thing at a time, eh? The rockers cost less.... |
| I used an AD12... | næstep
Apr 24, 2003 5:23 PM | | ...and it made for a nice difference over the stock bike, probably due to its large main chamber and the compression control. I actually got full travel out of the rear with this shock something many Sid users complain they never get while still maintaining the better part of the no-bob suspension.
However, proper setup is still important. I find if sag is allowed into the shock, the bike tries to extend the suspension under pedaling, causing an annoying bob. But then again, with the AD12, the bike became very compliant at zero sag, so I found no reason to reduce pressure.
næstep |
| You bring up a good point | Duckman
Apr 24, 2003 5:50 PM | | ..regarding shock volumn and because of..the ramp up rate in terms of progressiveness. The Fox RC has too little volumn to run at zero sag. If so i do not get full travel. No neg chamber to use like one can with the SID or Crane Creek shocks. The SID run at body weight or 5-10lbs heavier and neg around 100ish maybe here lately, and i get full travel, and keep 99% of the no bob traits. Also, having said that, i now run my pos 25psi over body weight when using the new 4.5 rockers. The trait that changed the most was, that i needed to run the Neg at 45-55 psi to increase ramp up of resistance to levels that would normally perform as Naestep describes being TOO progressive in ramp up and in turn not using full travel. Not the case with the new arms. Me thinks the angle in which the upper chainstays relate to the rocker arms have been made a tad more affective(slightly more right angle-ish to one another)which seems to keep a higher leverage advantage farther into the stroke then the shorter stock arms do.
Just some thoights i guess. The more i experiment with these setups and such, the more the higher volumn of the AD12/Cloud 9 makes since. I wanna use the RC shock since i can use the new Fox remote lockout kit with it. Then i'd use the RS remote kit with the SID team. Front fork lockout will be with the front brake lever and so on, for quick thought action. Can't hurt considering it needs to be 2nd nature and easy. |
| Prob one of the most plush NRS's around pic | Tom Traynor
Apr 24, 2003 5:32 PM | | Anybody put a Cloud Nine on? Some claim increased plushness. Probably best to do one thing at a time, eh? The rockers cost less.... |
| As Duck said the 4.5 rockers are plush. nm | Malcolm
Apr 24, 2003 7:25 PM | | |
| Pssssssst | Duckman
Apr 24, 2003 7:35 PM | | ...um, you do know that the rockers are in the 3.5" travel mode in the pic...right?:)
Duck |
| I almost thought I had | Trevor!
Apr 24, 2003 7:43 PM | | mine setup wrong! I was going to ask before!
YAY! Excuse to post pic |
| Yeah, yeah I knew-NOT.So much for trusting my Mechanic at work. | Malcolm
Apr 25, 2003 1:03 AM | | I thought the further apart the holes were the bigger the leverage hence the longer travel?-Physics was not my strong point at school.
Malc. |
| I just took a cue from the pic of Duckmans bike! LOL | Trevor!
Apr 25, 2003 1:09 AM | | I totally suck with all of that stuff! I would have guessed the further away hole but I then thought it would reduce the shock stroke thus making smaller travel. |
| I meant to look at Ducks pic to, but obviously I didn't.It .... | Malcolm
Apr 25, 2003 1:44 AM | | would be nice if it was laseretched into the rocker(like the AC) but that would be costly I suppose.
All fixed now.Now I'm wondering if it will feel any different in the 4.5 position? Jumping up and down on it it does feel even more plusher so may have to also up the air pressure-lucky were not over 200 lbs or we may blow the shock.
Malc. |
| Indeed! | Trevor!
Apr 25, 2003 2:37 AM | | I have mine set a little above 190LBS so like 195 pounds max and that is really perfect! I guess 200+ pound riders would have to be careful think shock max is 250psi. Drop your neg back to 50psi too. The other setup offcourse produces some sag, so with the addition of the rockers your dealing with a little more!
Damm they make the bike look better!
[OT: I tried to take my cranks off today, got the bolt out easy but trying to get the crank+rings off the BB was too hard! Safe to use aa mallet to tap them off?? Mabey I better leave it to the LBS?] |
| you guys have it | Duckman
Apr 25, 2003 9:19 AM | | ...right now. All those arms do is increase the leverage ration from the pivot(middle bolt)to the back mt(made longer)and it and the front(made shorter). Now for every inch the shock moves(1.5" always)the rear moves 4.5 instead of 3.5. The payback is the shock has that much more leverage against it. Just moving the shock travel farther in on the fulcrum of movement..say, how a door swings is a good analogy. The part near the hinges moves little, but the part way out by the door knob moves alot.
I've ridden the heck outta mine so for, and no probs whatsoever. Even if the shock goes say in 1 year instead of 1.4yrs, I say..so what. Its cheap in the grand spectrum of things really.
ok, LOL! all together now...
door knob=wheel axle, door hinges=shock, distance from pivot travel + or - =leverage(=which =loads applied to the shock - and + as well). |
| LOL!Thanks for that info!Great years of racing = Great tech mind | Trevor!
Apr 25, 2003 3:01 PM | | NM! (I hate the word limit in the topic bar!
9 DAYS and counting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Till I hit the bike for 7 intensive days of riding! umm followed by another 7 days and so on and so! |
| I bet your dying not being able to ride | Duckman
Apr 25, 2003 3:41 PM | | haven almost died in July, then 2 broken c-bones Nov and Dec...well, i figure i know exactly how you feel right now. A wise friend said during a trying time about 15yrs ago.."This too will pass". Nothing specl for sure, but effective no less.
Sux right now tho. LOL!! Sorry man.
Duckout |
| Thanks | Trevor!
Apr 25, 2003 4:06 PM | | Yeah, thanks all the same. I always think that somewhere there is some1 less fortunate than me. For example, loosing the use in a leg! All that aside onyl a few days to go in the scheme of things.
The worst part however is no1 is around this weekend, away on business etc so I am stranded! think I will get a taxi to the LBS for some reatil therapy (Does buying finsih line lube/degreaser count as retail therapy??) LOL!
Cheers |
| There a many more | Duckman
Apr 25, 2003 4:58 PM | | ...worse off, so i commend you. As I laid in the hospital for 32 days while most of that was a tube in and out both ends, iv feed, and had a 1 in 4 chance of dying at the front 11 day icu part. The dude who laid next to me in my room as i recovered for the mext 3-4 weeks was worse off for sure. 325lbs...diabeatis(sp)...no insurance...was a trucker from Texas with no family here, and did not own a truck or even have a home of some sort anywhere...and his kidneys just failed completely, and was having to come to grips with what will prob be at least having to sit on a dialisis(sp)machine for 4-5hrs every other day for the rest of his days. He looked 65 tho and so so tired. He called me a young buck even while telling me some back in the day' stories. I was 44 then. He was only 50. His life was over really, and having talked to him for days on end, he'd not done a thing he'd dreamed of when younger. I cannot conceive of that. YES, enjoy your health. It can be gone in a second. I had a reality ck then. It saved my life in one way cause i had to stop drinking, which was going to kill me with another Pancreaitis attack if i started again. Glad it will, cause nothing else would have stopped me. That was July the 9th, tweenty oh 2.
Duckout |
| dear! Thats some story. Happy to hear your back on track... | Trevor!
Apr 25, 2003 5:38 PM | | and going well and all. Really feel sorry for that other fellow. My DAD was in ICU for a week a little while ago, and there were indeed much worse cases. Still makes you stop and think sometimes "What if?". Feel awful dull today having to sit in day and bugger around with financial ratios and microsoft word for a damm Accounting assignment but after reading that story it puts things back into persective. Sorta got a smile back in my face now.
Thanks. Sure was a good read.
MTBR sure is a great community of people. To think I am sitting in my Home down in Tasmania miles away from Mainland Aus and a great deal of distance away from alot of people on this page, typing/talking/sharing pics etc |
| If the internet has done one good thing | Duckman
Apr 25, 2003 6:11 PM | | ..it has been a reminder of 2 constants. 1...is that there will always be assholes. 2...there will always be good people out there.
places like this where otherwise basic interaction with others from a given pursuit wouldn't otherwise have for an avenue to converse until the last few years, are great really. I have traveled all over this country meeting backpackers, mtneers, mtn bikers, ww kayakers, pro paint ball players, bla bla bla. Same quality people are always drawn to something worth doing. The subject may change, and so does the names...same people tho. Don't get me wrong theres still the AH's, but less of'm. The assholes? I have no time for such, which is all the thought i chose to waste on such. Heal fast. The trail will always be there, altho it feels like it might not right now. |
| LOL! Agree! Thanks! (nm) | Trevor!
Apr 25, 2003 6:36 PM | | |
| Man I cant be riding fast enough because I never seem to.... | Malcolm
Apr 25, 2003 8:46 PM | | hurt myself badly- touch wood...
Infact I know I dont ride fast enough-mainly due to lack of fitness.
Duck your story was indeed well written and interesting as always.
My Dad had a heamerage a few years ago in his early 60s and he is paralysed down his left side and now in a home so yes you really do need to look after yourself, but this isnt always enough either.
One day all our numbers will be up so we must enjoy while were here- man thats morbid..
Enjoy your next ride.
Malc. |
| Tell us about the custom Vanilla Spacer, or better yet... | Zeke
Apr 24, 2003 7:45 PM | | show us a pic of what you did.
Thanks |
| 4.5" rockers | 80z28s6
Apr 24, 2003 8:12 PM | | I agree with Duckman. Tonight was my first road ride with the new rockers and it is much plusher. I used the same setup as before and had a bit of bob introduced. Need to mess with the settings a bit more. |
| May need to add 15-25psi more to stop the bob! (nm) | Trevor!
Apr 24, 2003 9:15 PM | | |
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