|   Stumpy FSR comp vs. Epic? | ddev
Apr 25, 2003 5:42 AM | | I have a dilemma. I've got a chance to buy a Stumpjumper FSR comp at $1500, or a base-model Epic at $1500.
The Epic deal (~$300 price cut) was made by the local Specialized rep, and I initially turned it down since I really had my heart set on the FSR. I've demo'd both bikes (parking lot only, grrrr), and felt good about both, although without a trail ride who can say. After reading every single review on mtbr and elsewhere for the FSR and Epic, I'm starting to wonder if I shouldn't go with the Epic. I know all the anti-epic arguments (1st year technology, heavy frame, not fully active rear, delay in suspension activation, and the fact that Fox is coming out with a new shock next year that will bring brain-like technology to the fork - i.e. next year's epic will be even better), but 95% of the people I talk to and maybe 80% of the reviews are EXTREMELY positive on the bike. Without a trail ride I'm at a loss!
I'm just moving to FS from 12 years on a rigid Cannondale. To me, the idea of front suspension is new. I move/travel a lot and ride the full range, east coast, west coast, southwest, short XC burn rides and long epics (yes on a rigid, and yes my whole body hurts at the end of the day). Can anyone offer my some solid advice here???
I need to decide today, since I'm planning on picking up the FSR tomorrow morning. Any good thoughts out there? |
| re: Stumpy FSR comp vs. Epic? | String
Apr 25, 2003 6:24 AM | | Both bikes are speced with similiar parts with two notable exceptions. The FSR comes with a Fox Float RL fork versus the Skareb Comp on the Epic. IMO, the Fox Float is a much better fork than the Skareb Comp. I believe Specialized specs Fox Forks on all the epic models except the base model. The base epic comes with an LX-XT drivetrain versus and LX-XTR on the FSR Comp.
With the base epic you are paying for the brain shock and mid level components. With the FSR Comp you are getting a good proven frame design and a few high end components. If you can find a FSR Comp (I think they are a little tough to find this year) I would go with the FSR. |
| Ya, fox fork is weighing heavily in the decision right now (nm) | ddev
Apr 25, 2003 9:28 AM | | |
| Ya, fox fork is weighing heavily in the decision right now (nm) | String
Apr 25, 2003 10:00 AM | | If it comes down to just the fork, for what you are saving you can always sell the Skareb on Ebay if you don't like it and buy a Fox or other fork of choice.
Another option is to see that kind of deal you can get on either an Epic Disc or pro which come with the Fox fork. |
| re: Stumpy FSR comp vs. Epic? | kneecap
Apr 25, 2003 6:44 AM | | "End of day body hurt",rigid-lots; epic-some; fsr-minimal n/m |
| re: Stumpy FSR comp vs. Epic? | Low_bias
Apr 25, 2003 7:26 AM | | I've been mulling this over too. If you are into speed and efficiency, it sounds like the Epic would be better. Do you race? If you want a trail bike you can ride all day, you are probably better off with the stumpie. When I was younger I had dellusions of racing, but that is majorly stressful, time consuming, and EXPENSIVE. Consequently, my race-oriented stretched out hardtail was very uncomfortable on the long rides that I wound up ACTUALLY doing. So be honest with yourself: Do you race or only do short rides, or will you use this for long, backcountry rides?
The epic sounded great until I heard it doesn't activate until you hit a 1G bump. That sounds like a rough ride to me! A bit too hardtail like.
Is it just me, or does the "brain" basically do the same thing static friction, or "stiction", did back in the old days? My old Mag 20 had loads of stiction. Totally unresponsive to the motions of my body, and to small bumps. Strictly big-hit cusioning. Does anybody want stiction in their forks today? No- fork designers went through great lengths to get rid of it.
I've been really excited this past week, researching the Epic, but I think my bubble is burst now. It probably is a great bike, but only for those who really appreciate the efficiency of a hardtail. I want something I can ride all day and not be sore, so I think I'll look at the stumpie, the Giant VT2, and maybe Santa Cruz. |
| Friction vs. brain | ddev
Apr 25, 2003 8:35 AM | | I'm not planning on doing any racing, so this is a non-issue for me. I'm more worried that after being trained on a rigid, I'll find the fully-active FSR TOO plush.
Your point about static friction is a good one...the problem as I see it is designing a system with constant static friction to set the shock break-away point, and "zero" coefficient of dynamic friction for smooth shock action. This seems to be the real benefit of the inertial lockout Fox/Specialized is using - you get to set the break-away independent of the damping. I'm willing to bet the next generation of the brain will allow the break-away to be tuned, either by swapping out the inertial valve mass, changing the friction on the mass, or something similar. |
| I also thought the FSR would be too plush.. | Mac in the UK
Apr 25, 2003 9:05 AM | | ..and after I bought it that feeling lasted about two rides. With the 70 mm travel option and the air shock you can make it too firm. I now appreciate the plush and efficient ride the FSR offers and can't imagine changing. One real advantage with the FSR is that you're not tied to a proprietary shock. I hope this helps. Good luck with your choice. |
| On my first few rides on the FSR, it WAS too plush | RVM
Apr 25, 2003 12:27 PM | | until I hit so tough sections and I appreciated not getting beat up. I found it tough to ride through flat sections of singletrack not knowing how the rear end would track since I was used to riding hardtails. Eventually I got used to it... |
| Friction vs. brain | Low_bias
Apr 25, 2003 9:09 AM | | Yeah...I suppose that is a point about having high static friction but low dynamic friction.
However, what is friction? It is mere resistance. What is damping? That is also resistance. You could break even if you reduced the damping to compensate for the added dynamic friction. you could also have a tapered shaft to no longer interface witht the friction ring after it starts to move.
The only real difference is that one is force based, and the other is acceleration based. Figure out what force you have when 1G of acceleration shows up, and its money. |
| Friction vs. brain, cont. | ddev
Apr 25, 2003 9:26 AM | | Well, friction is force-based, but the force comes from inertia/acceleration. Same as with the brain, except the brain's inertial force is based on the valve plug mass, while the static friction idea is based on the rider's mass ("sprung weight" in automotive parlance). Since "damping" is just a force proportional to velocity, dynamic friction and air damping will do the same thing, but static friction is not damping since it's a static force and not proportional to velocity. Decoupling these two frictional forces would be a real trick I suspect...
Another problem would be that static friction will kick in at different points in the shock travel, depending on the dynamic forces, so you could end up with the shock zeroing out at the top, bottom, or middle of the travel range - not a great thing for a shock! If you can find a way around these issues though, you've got a killer idea - low wieght, low maintenance, and auto-lockout, very cool! |
| I actually own an Epic | Steve Wolf
Apr 25, 2003 9:48 AM | | Amazing to hear from all those who don't own an Epic. I've had an Epic Disc for a few months now and it is great. There is no delay activating the shock. I'm old (over 50), ride 5-6 hours, and I switched from a bike that supposedly had more travel. I'd never go back. Since you are coming off a hardtail I think you'd especially appreciate it. No bobbing, especially when climbing.
http://arnica.csustan.edu/mtbike |
| Mountain Bike Action Magazine | Steve Wolf
Apr 25, 2003 6:28 PM | | March 2003 issue of Mountain Bike Action Magazine:
"Is the Epic a better cross country racer than a hardtail? Absolutely."
"Can the Epic sprint like a hardtail? The Epic doesn't sprint like a hardtail. It sprints better."
"How does the Epic climb? ...simply motors uphill."
"...you are thinking...suspension can't kick in fast enough. Wrong."
http://arnica.csustan.edu/mtbike |
| Mountain Bike Action Magazine couldn't be trusted | gorse
Apr 25, 2003 9:44 PM | | to accurately review a banana |
| I'll backup up the Epic owner.. | MellowCat
Apr 26, 2003 7:48 PM | | as I'm one too. I've had the Epic base model since Nov. last year.
The bikes works great. The "brain" function is just fine. If you like the efficency of a hardtail, but want assistance on the rough you will love this bike. Sprinting, standing are enjoyable on this bike.
Don't buy either bike without a decent trail test. Parking lot tests will tell you nothing.
MC |
| |
