|   Helmet cams | Spring
May 21, 2003 9:40 AM | | Can you reccommend a reasonably priced helmet cam and recorder, and where would I find something like that? |
| re: Helmet cams | Seanmon
May 21, 2003 9:49 AM | | Check out helmetcamera.com. Their rig costs 299.00 and will plug into just about any cam corder. One word of caution, you will need to seriously cushion your camcorder - do not simply toss it into your Camelbak. Most cams are simply not built to withstand the bouncing and shock produced by that sweet downhill you want to get on film. You should buy a pack specifically made for holding camcorders (Burton makes a very good one - $90). Obviously there will be a weight issue involved so don't plan on filming any of your epic rides - stick to 12 miles or less. |
| I disagree. | Pete.
May 21, 2003 9:58 AM | | "One word of caution, you will need to seriously cushion your camcorder - do not simply toss it into your Camelbak."
Tossing it into the Camelbak works just fine.
"Most cams are simply not built to withstand the bouncing and shock produced by that sweet downhill you want to get on film."
It's not an issue.
"You should buy a pack specifically made for holding camcorders (Burton makes a very good one - $90)."
Camelbaks, from the Blowfish to the Transalp, work fine.
"Obviously there will be a weight issue involved so don't plan on filming any of your epic rides - stick to 12 miles or less."
ROTFLMAO. Why only 12 miles or less? |
| I have to concur | Yeti_Rider
May 21, 2003 10:40 AM | | Since I didn't want to spend the coin on a bigger camelback, I just bought a smaller, reasonably priced backpack that I load all my crap in. Basically, I just have to through in my camcorder and my hydration pack bladder. The biggest difference is just that the weight, while not a lot more, sits differently on my back. So, on a long ride with a full bladder, the weight is noticably annoying. But, as the day goes on and I consume the water, the comfort level increases. I do notice the extra weight, but it hasn't stopped me from filming 30+ mile rides in 105 degree heat (although not the best of times it wasn't that bad either)
I do put my camcorder in a small rubbermaid type case though just to protect it if I do go OTB. Not sure if it'll do much, but psychologically it seems better than just crashing and landing right on it unprotected!
Michael |
| I stand corrected | Seanmon
May 22, 2003 8:50 AM | | All right, all right - I'm freakin' sold! It must be my camcorder. I have the sony TRV-20 mini-DV and I've had a ton of problems with it while biking. The direct helmet mount would definitely give a better picture while at the same time keeping the camera safer (assuming you don't bail).
I agree with the guy that turning off the camera is a pain in the ass - I leave it on the entire ride and just edit out the spots I don't want. The only bad part is it captures everything you look (or stare at). Sometimes it's not a good idea to edit those videos with the woman present.
For you Premiere junkies, Pinnacle DV 500 is an outstanding product that comes bundled with premier - the whole package is less than $500. |
| http://shop.viosport.com/ | joe m.
May 21, 2003 12:11 PM | | http://shop.viosport.com/ - that's where I got mine |
| re: Helmet cams | Seanmon
May 21, 2003 12:39 PM | | You guys are either very lucky or your riding on extremely smooth trail then. I've had my helmetcam for just over two years and taken it boarding, biking, and hiking (halfdome). Hiking and boarding were no problem for the cam, but all the shock from biking seriously messed it up. I've had cassettes jam twice and I've had the autofocus go out from riding with it. I would also be interested in knowing whether you are using mini DV, CCD, or Hi8. A thirty mile trip with any real elevation is a 3+ hour ride. Are you telling me you have tape and battery for three straight hours of shooting non stop? |
| unless your shuttling no one wants to see 3 hours ride footage | troy
May 21, 2003 12:56 PM | | Climbing video is pretty boring. Climb for a couple of hours, get to the top, turn the camera on for the ride down. |
| Not that lucky, "extremely smooth trails"? You be the judge. | Pete.
May 21, 2003 1:06 PM | | I've used three different miniDv cameras.
First, a Sony TRV10 for all of the video that I shot using a lipstick cam. It was used a bunch for helmetcam stuff as well as handcam stuff out on the trail.
I sold this camera to my brother-in-law who still uses it when we ride together for handcam action. I also borrow this same camera frequently for in-car video at the track. The camera is attached to a roll bar and spends hours and hours going around and around.
Secondly, I used a Sony Pc3 MiniDV for helmetcam action and handheld stuff. This camera was in a camelback but rather mounted to the helmet itself. It endured many, many dusty miles, some rain, and also spent a great deal of time inside a car on the track as well as on safari in Africa. It finally died after being dropped one too many times, after 2 years of heavy use.
Lastly, I currently use a Sony PC9 minDV and for the last year it's also seen many dusty miles of trail, rain, and endured being strapped into and on top of a car on the race track.
Why would anyone shoot an entire XC ride? I turn my cameras on and off since climbing footage, especially helmetcam climbing footage, is insanely boring.
I have taped almost four hours in one day but I used multiple tapes and batteries.
Extremely smooth trails? |
| Not that lucky, "extremely smooth trails"? You be the judge. | Steve Wolf
May 21, 2003 1:15 PM | | The major disadvantage of the lipstick cam, because it is packed away, is that you have to leave it running all the time. But I have 9 hours of batteries, and tape is relatively cheap and reusable. I'm not good enough to put a $1,000+ minicam on my helmet.
Pete: I downloaded the trial version of Premier 6.0 and couldn't get near your mpeg compression. What's the secret? |
| Why do you have to leave it running all of the time? | Pete.
May 21, 2003 1:18 PM | | I turned my TRV10 off and on and also disconnected/reconnected the power source for the lipstick as needed. |
| Why do you have to leave it running all of the time? | Steve Wolf
May 21, 2003 2:26 PM | | Because it's packed away and I would have to stop, remove the pack, take out the container, open the camera box, stop the camera, repack the camera, put the pack back on, ride a bit, stop and repeat. I would have to keep doing this a lot. No big deal to just let it run. Besides, we are *much* different riders. You guys do XC just to get to the technical stuff. Then you turn the camera on. I'm an old guy and "getting there" is most of the fun. I like to record the trails, just to document them for myself and the other less intense riders. E.g. most of you would find my Flume Trail video boring. I like it. Scores of less serious riders write me all the time saying they enjoy my "just the trail" videos. |
| LANC wired remote makes lipstick camming convenient | Adman
May 22, 2003 11:00 AM | | It's a $60 dongle that's got a multi-purpose button on it that starts/stops/pauses/powers on/off your camcorder. I ran this out in Moab this spring, and it made lipstick camming much more attractive than it was last season.
It saves on editing and rigging time, provided the camcorder has a LANC input.
-Adam |
| LANC wired remote makes lipstick camming convenient | Steve Wolf
May 22, 2003 1:24 PM | | I'm familiar with them but didn't think they'd work with my camera since it has a strange way to record via the lipstick cam. What brand camcorder? |
| Compression secrets revealed.... more... | SLinBend
May 21, 2003 2:42 PM | | Per Pete's website that is :) Here's the direct link to what Pete indicates he uses for compression:
http://www.real.com/accessories/?prod=xingmpegencoder
I thought I was all done spending money on "gadgets" for this year, but after reading this thread and doing some research on helmet cams, I think I may have to take the plunge and buy yet another bike related item!
BTW Steve, I checked out the RF Concepts site and compared specs to 3 other sites (helmetcam.com, viosport, and microcam) and you are correct... RF Concepts does have the best price AND the best resolution. Their website is a bit sketchy though... makes me a bit nervous to buy from them as it looks a bit "fly by night". Anyone bought from them and have feedback? |
| RF Concepts | Steve Wolf
May 21, 2003 2:58 PM | | Really good company. My lipstick cam is nearly a year old and a wire connector went out recently. They sent me two replacements, no questions asked. They have a one year comprehensive warranty. A few days ago Pete said he no longer uses the Xing encoder so his site doesn't help me with the Premier encoding. |
| they're legit | Yeti_Rider
May 22, 2003 8:42 AM | | I bought mine and had no "real"problems.
The only problem I had was that I bought it about two weeks before I was going to go on vacation and really needed (okay, really wanted to have) for the trip. I never received anything from them (shipping order, confirmation number, etc.) and my CC never got billed. After sending numerous e-mails to them without response, I essentially told them via another email that I wished to cancel my order. It turns out that I was emailing them during a holiday, they said that the order would be shipped next day at no cost to me and sure enough, it came two days later (next day from Europe to California).
It's worked flawlessly nad was quite a bit less expensive than other companies. I'm pleased.
Michael |
| You need Premiere 6.5 | Pete.
May 21, 2003 3:17 PM | | I actually have my own MPEG1 "template" that I customized using Premiere's MPEG encoder.
I can't find where the raw data is stored but I could probably take somescreen shots that show the settings that work for me. |
| I suspected Premiere 6.5 (nm) | Steve Wolf
May 21, 2003 4:04 PM | | |
| Pete shooting an extremely smooth trail. | Biking Viking
May 21, 2003 2:43 PM | | |
| This one is smooth too | Yeti_Rider
May 21, 2003 5:10 PM | | but it's not Pete, it's me!
I didn't film this ride, but the video below is of the same trail.
the video is here: http://www.geocities.com/mfpaul/noble-01-11-03.html
I will concede that bolting the camera right to the helmet does produce a smoother image due to the image stabilization, but then, I'm not independently wealthy like somebody else is so I had to purchase a slightly larger, yet less expensive MiniDV to use.........
.jpg) |
| Sigh... I really should switch back to lipstick for some vids. | Pete.
May 21, 2003 10:10 PM | | "I will concede that bolting the camera right to the helmet does produce a smoother image due to the image stabilization"
Most of the "stability" of my vids is not due to the image stabilization, it's due to technique.
To truly understand this you would have to see all of the video that never hits the net, that is taken by folks wearing my helmetcam setup,, with image stabilization.
The single most important thing that people can do is to constantly think about their head as a video platform and do everything they can to keep the platform stable. Using your arms, legs, and neck/head as shock absorbers does wonders as far as capturing a "stable" image. Constantly thinking about keep ing the subject rider in frame, even thinking about the rule of thirds, and picking the smoothest line, whil keeping your head loose, is key. |
| Yes, you should | Yeti_Rider
May 22, 2003 7:47 AM | | after checking out your lipstick cam/helmet cam comparision and one of the older lipstick cam videos (the others must have been removed but maybe you didn't update that section of the site?) it looks like the lipstick cam is just as jerky as what those of us using that technique generate. Granted, you've no doubt had a lot more time to hone your technique but comparing the Joe's ridge videos (which at least appears to be a fiarly smooth trail without much braking bumps or other chatter) the lipstick cam footage is rather jumpy and has the herky jerky's while the DV cam footage is quite smooth. Not sure how much time elapsed between shooting the two though becuase technique could have certainly been improved from one to the other.
The footage in my older videos is definatley bumpier than what I get now and the biggest issue I ever had was simply not having the helmet on my head tight enough (still may be an issue sometimes when I forget to really make sure it's tight)
I think there are several important factors working together and no one aspect is necessarily dominant.
1) You ride a sofa, I ride a hardtail (I've seen your 'cross video so I know you have one but facts are facts, full suspension bikes are smoother no matter how good technique on a hardtail is)
2) Image stabilization does work. sure, the rider probably needs more practice than simply bolting it directly to the head but it works. The heavier weight of the DV cam/counter balance may actually help improve the image quality as well since there's more mass that must get moving. The smaller bumps may not impart enough fource to actually cause the helmet (and your head) to move in reaction. Combining this with the full suspension effects of the bike (and of course, the rider) can greatly improve stabilization (no, I'm not going to go out and bolt a five pound weight to my helmet to accomplish this)
3) technique is important, no doubt about it. Personally, I think my techique is solid but can always be improved upon.
4) You're just better
when you switch to the lipstick cam, switch to the hardtail for a run as well. I'd love to see a side by side by side comparision of DV cam on full vs. hardtail and lipstick cam on full vs. hardtail on the same section of bumpy trail |
| Hmmm.... | Pete.
May 22, 2003 10:13 AM | | " You ride a sofa, I ride a hardtail"
I think you're going to really upset some of the DH folks by describing a 4" XC bike as a "sofa."
"I've seen your 'cross video so I know you have one but facts are facts, full suspension bikes are smoother no matter how good technique on a hardtail is"
There's a HUGE difference between riding a hardtail and riding a cross bike, especially on the trails that I did that video on.
A cross bike is rigid and the tires lack volume when compared to MTB tires ( and I was using "bigger" 700 x 32 rubber when that was made). |
| yeah well, | Yeti_Rider
May 22, 2003 10:21 AM | | I think you're going to really upset some of the DH folks by describing a 4" XC bike as a "sofa"
2 inches is couch compared to what I have now. Can't imagine what 8" would be like! But, if 4" is sofa, then more than that would be a Barcalounger..........
Michael |
| Sigh... I really should switch back to lipstick for some vids. | Steve Wolf
May 22, 2003 9:51 AM | | If I had your skills I would much rather mount the camcorder directly on my helmet. The lipstick cam is a pain to turn on and off, pack and repack, and you can just tape the segments you want rather than letting the camera run all the time. Obviously you get better images that way too. I've also seen remote LANC switches that let you control the camera at will. However, have you ever considered mounting the camera on the top of your helmet so you could eliminate that counterweight? I know I've seen someone do that. Surely you have a thick muscular neck by now? Some camera shake is OK if it really reflects the trail. |
| There's no way | Pete.
May 22, 2003 10:15 AM | | ..that I would mount the camera on top.
Much more neck torque, clearance issues on tight trails, etc. |
| I agree | Yeti_Rider
May 22, 2003 10:22 AM | | putting half the weight on top of the helmet would be more difficult than twice the weight distributed on each side. Plus, the weight on top would make for a more unbalanced system.
Michael |
| RF Concepts, Canon ZR series miniDV | Steve Wolf
May 21, 2003 12:50 PM | | Pete and Yeti_Rider know of what they speak.
Video-how-to: http://arnica.csustan.edu/mtbike
RF Concepts, higher resolution and lower price:
http://www.rfconcepts.co.uk/helmet_cameras.htm
I just put mine in a rubbermaid container in my Camelback. I've rolled over on it more times than I can recall. I'm an old guy and I've taken it on several 30+ mile rides above Lake Tahoe. I've taped six hour rides, then I select the footage I want.
 |
| re: Helmet cams | dirttorpedo
May 21, 2003 1:09 PM | | I ran into some guys filming at Slickrock trail in Moab. They told us they'd done Porcupine rim the day before and got good film of the trail that day. The guy riding with the camera didn't have any particularly bulky pack on either so I wouldn't worry about it. |
| |
