|   Steel Frame | Ransak
Aug 16, 2003 5:42 AM | | After a few years on an dually xc, and with the recent addition of a big fat DH bike to my little collection ... I'm thinking about selling the former and getting a hardtail.
I've heard lots of good stuff about steel frames, but I've never ridden one. Previously I had a Specialzed hardtail -Aluminium, of course and pretty rigid. I have my eye on a sweet steel hardtail, but I'm not sure about steel frames.
QUESTION: Can anyone explain the virtues of steel to me - what are the pro's and con's ... is the ride difference between aluminum and steel subtle or significant? Are they compartatively heavy? What about durability (rust?)???
Any advice, experience or comments will be much appreciated (especially from those who ride or have ridden steel frames). |
| big debate | cw
Aug 16, 2003 10:40 AM | | I'm not going to get in on the steel vs. aluminum debate, other than to say that when it comes to hardtails, I like steel.
To answer some of your other questions, if you get a GOOD steel frame, it's no heavier than an aluminum frame, and you should use a rust preventing agent like Boeshield, LPS, Rust Check, Frame Saver, etc. on the inside of the frame before assembly.
I'll just add one opinion: low-end steel frames are crap. If you're on a tight budget, get aluminum.
Here are some links to the great steel vs. aluminum debate
http://www.epinions.com/bike-Bicycle_Topics-Frame_Materials_Advice
http://www.epinions.com/otdr-Cycling-Steel_frames |
| big debate | Cookiemonster
Aug 16, 2003 8:52 PM | | The Steel vs. Al debate is perhaps several decades old. With better materials, such as Carbon (C), and Titanium (Ti), and metal matrix, and composites, there is little to care about the old Steel vs. Al debate- except that these types of frames (esp. steel) are still sold at walmart, and most other stores, and including bike shops.
Those varieties fall under the classification of "cheap steal"- which tend to be as heavy a boat.
Other considerations:
Steel- This is a strong metal, that does not flex much, but is not as stiff as Al is.
- It is a malleable material- if the frame is dented, or nicked, bent, depending on severity, it can be refitted to original position without significant further damage.
- This is a lay-man's frame that has great qualities to 'feel' the ride, and that has a degree of damping.
-Often better frames are 'butted'.
Cons- Steel- These tends to be heavy.
- They demand considerable upkeep to prevent 'rusting' (oxidation).
Aluminum (Al)- This is fairly light, and strong, although it is not quite as strong as steel - in some ways. Evidence of this is that- The tubes need to be larger (look at Cannondale's massive diameter tubes)..... and, again, look at the better Al frame's replacable rear=derailler hanger..... This is evidence that although Al is lighter than Steel, it is strong and malleable- also, if a bent part is re-bent back, then it has a higher chance of cracking. But the advantages of Al frames that they will not rust, and it's lighter weight- compared to steel. Another note is that they are not butted, as Steel frames can be. Also, to increase strength, many companies (Specialized), have made their metal-matrix Al- carbon-ceramic(graphite) particle materials. These metal matrix frames are generally very strong and well rounded, BUT they tend to be even stiffer than a normal Al frame (The emphasis on stiffness leaves the rider to feel every bump on the road, or to have a sore butt after). Also note that even metal matrix frames have a replaceable drop-out. Now- in the day of economic decision making, it would not be ideal to waste time in designing such a replaceable part as on Al, and C frames, but esp. with Al frames, to have one. In order to save such costs, it is possible to assume that the replaceable drop-out unit is a necessity. Also, it would be a hassle, and probably unforgivable misfortune of having to replace it.
I have a double butted frame and truly stand by it. If I were to choose a significant frame material, that I would opt for Ti. Ti is seriously great, and better than both, but perhaps not as highly regarded when compared against a carbon fibre-frame. That's another write-up to dwelve on.
Al frames, in my opinion, is my neighbor's bike. But not MY bike! |
| big debate | Dunshee80
Aug 16, 2003 9:08 PM | | ummmmmmmmmmm, not exactly. there are quite a few butted aluminum frames. Most highend aluminum frames are. |
| big debate | uber-stupid
Aug 16, 2003 11:44 PM | | -Aluminum is stronger by weight. Steel is stronger by volume. A frame of equal size, all dimensions being equal, in aluminum would be lighter.
-Steel is more flexible. It is also more forgiving of being flexed. When aluminum flexes, it develops microscopic stress-induced cracks over time, and loses both rigidity and strength. This is mostly felt (in my experience, anyway) in mushy seatstays after V-brakes have flexed tehm back and forth. Brake boosters can lessen this, and stiffen the frame up, but it's an issue. Steel, on the other hand, is springy and flexible. The seatstays won't get less strong, but they can be flexy, so again, a brake booster is preferable, but at least the frame will be consistently flexible, and not get flexier over time. I generally believe that my steel hardtail (nashbar frame... dirt cheap, but it's held up well for me so far. Not the lightest, but for $50, why not) is softer on landings, and for general riding.
-Steel frames rust. Aluminum frames do oxidize, but aluminum doesn't blister or pit like steel does, and an oxidized surface doesn't oxidize further. On the other hand, aluminum frmaes dent and gouge more easily, because it's a softer metal.
-My personal opinion... I'm not a racer, so I don't mind an extra pound or two on a steel frame, because I generally find my steel to be more comfortable. The day I have the cash to plop down on a NICE steel frame, I'll probably spring for a Jamis Dragon. |
| big debate | cw
Aug 17, 2003 9:02 AM | | U-S is right when he says this: "A frame of equal size, all dimensions being equal, in aluminum would be lighter. " ...but I think this needs clarification.
All dimensions won't be equal on two similar sized hardtails, one (good quality) steel and one aluminum, because the steel frame will have smaller diameter tubes than the aluminum frame. Here's an example:
The Rocky Mountain Blizzard frame (Reynolds 853 Chro-moly steel) and the Rocky Mountain Vertex frame (Easton Ultralite aluminum) both weigh the exact same - 3.6 lbs in the 18.5" size.
These are both excellent quality frames. Where the steel frames will outweigh the aluminum frames is in the lower price range. |
| search the posts on the SS board - lots of hardtails there (nm) | Hollywood
Aug 16, 2003 11:38 AM | | |
| Do it, you won't regret it | FM or MF
Aug 16, 2003 2:45 PM | | I regularly switch back and forth between my 6" travel titus switchblade and my Steel Dekerf with a 4" marzocchi on it. I've been as surprised as anyone else, that the hardtail is capable of doing all the things I thought impossible till I got used to a long travel FS bike. Even Big drops (big for XC, like 4' to flat) are butter on a nice steel frame.
built up with wide riser bars, UST tires and disc brakes, it's a screaming bike! ;~}
I agree with the above post, steel isn't worth it unless you get something light and high-end. However it's really easy to find light high-end used steel frames these days now that everybody is convinced you can't ride hard wihtout FS.
I'm certainly VERY happy with my DeKerf ( www.dekerf.com )... make sure to give them a look. ... |
| re: Steel Frame | zzyxzz
Aug 17, 2003 6:25 PM | | An affordable quality steel frame is the Marin Eldrige Grade. It is made out of Columbus Nemo steel, quad-butted tubing. It has a few 'medium weight' parts on it, but the frame is light and responsive without being flexy. It rides so damn good, and looks so sexy with the gloss black paint. |
| re: Steel Frame | Ebo
Aug 17, 2003 7:57 PM | | Don't sell what you have, but still buy yourself a nice steel HT. Currently ride a rigid Stumpjumper Ni-ti steel frame and love it. Sure it's bumpy on the super hard pack, but when is riding in the dirt suppose to be smooth and plush. Waiting on a Gunnar Rock Hound which should be here any day now. Will run a Skareb on the front and know it will be sweet. Lots of good steel frame builders out there. Some expensive and some reasonable. Check out Gunnar, Curtlo, Jericho (expensive but well built), Steelman, IF,etc. Go for it. You won't regret it. |
| re: Steel Frame | poster
Aug 17, 2003 8:30 PM | | I'm riding an older steel bike right now and it murders my aluminum one. At first, you might or might not notice the difference, but in the long run you'll really feel it. It's just like people say, about steel eating up bumps and all that. After this, I don't think I'll EVER go back to aluminum again. |
| re: Steel Frame | Ransak
Aug 18, 2003 6:10 AM | | Thanks everybody! Great info!
I'll be shopping and riding this week. I'll post the final outcome for those who might share in my excitement! ;-) |
| Have steel & aluminum HT & FS | Rev Bubba
Aug 18, 2003 6:42 AM | | Hard question. My steel hardtail does ride "better" than my aluminum but how much this has to do with the design of the frame instead of the material is difficult to say.
My steel is full custom with pretty high-end material while my aluminum is an off the shelf frame (fairly high-end though)
The rear designs on each frame is different which makes it impossible to give you a definitive answer.
I have ridden three identical GT frames in steel, aluminum and cro-moly (cheaper steel) and am still hard pressed to say that I can tell the difference.
However, I am so satisified with the steel frame that, given a choice between steel and aluminum, I would go with steel just in case the material is the reason for the improved ride.
This is my second season on my custom steel frame and rust is not a problem but I do my best to treat the bike with care and not leave it stored in a damp environment.
I fully expect it to last a decade or more.
Personally, I would have no problem recommending a steel frame. My old steel GT Karakoram hardtail is still being ridden regularly by a friend and is about 8 years old.
I'd also say, if money permits, to go full custom. The difference is worth it if you can afford it. |
| I'd like to add... | airwreck
Aug 18, 2003 8:56 AM | | we were trading back and forth yesterday on a rocky road between a steel frame with tapered stays(dekerf w/631) and a steel frame with straight stays(KHS team w/OXII) and was surprised how noticably more "compliant" the rear end was on the dekerf. |
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