|   Bike Shops charging for test rides | Mike T
Sep 19, 2003 4:17 PM | | Hello,
I was just wonder how you feel about local bike shops charging a rental fee to test ride their bikes. I'm in the market for a full suspension bike, something like an Intense Spyder, Santa Cruz Blur, Ellsworth Id/Truth etc. etc. It seems the majority of bike shops in my area (SF Bay, Calif.) want me to pay a rental charge to test ride a bike under real world conditions as I don't believe that riding in the parking lot effectively demostrates a bike's attributes and drawbacks. Some want to charge $50/hr. They all say that they will apply the rental charges to the purchase of the bike, but that won't help me if I decide to buy elsewhere. Personaly, I think if I can take a high end sports car home for a 24hr test period with no charge, than I should be able to take a bike out for a couple hours without any kind of fee. Am I out of line?
thanks for your input
Mike |
| re: Bike Shops charging for test rides | jakers
Sep 19, 2003 4:24 PM | | I agree man. The problem is LBS's are losing so much money because of better parts/bikes/frames deals on the internet that they have to gouge labor and come up with new ways to make money. I think it's ridiculous. Tell them you aren't willing to pay for it. I think they should be lenient, you might be buying a $2k+ ride and they should let you try a bike for free! Some shops have demo bikes just for that reason!
What shops are chargin you? I live in S.F and I am curious... |
| re: Bike Shops charging for test rides | Mike T
Sep 19, 2003 8:54 PM | | What I've found so far:
Alameda Bikes: $40 a day for a full suspensioj ride (not bad)
Medina Cycle works (WrenchScience): $50/hr (but to be fair he said he would do it for $30/hr but not for a day
Robinson Wheel Works: Free!! (plus the guys there seem willing to really talk to you)
Mike's Bikes: N/A just your basic parking lot/neighborhood test |
| tsk tsk... check out Vision in SF, they are good to me...nm | jakers
Sep 19, 2003 9:55 PM | | |
| tsk tsk... check out Vision in SF, they are good to me...nm | Mike T
Sep 19, 2003 10:01 PM | | I called and talk to Paul today, he had a Blur but I already have a ride for that. It's funny you say that because I was on the phone with him for only a few moments and he seemed to be the nicest of all the shops I was calling.
Mike |
| RE: | jakers
Sep 19, 2003 11:06 PM | | Yeah they are good guys... They don't have a huge selection but they are superb guys who are pretentious or pompou which is something I have noticed at other shops cough cough...
I really think the Blur is the way to go anyways, weight and performance are top notch. Have you seen that guy's Blur that he posted on the Weight Weenie forum? With 5 Element... Looks real nice! |
| RE: | BLUR KNOW-IT-ALL
Sep 20, 2003 1:32 PM | | lots of sweet bikes out these days, the blur is the best but i just wanted to say that customer service is second to none to me. go with the guys that will help you! get a fit with your new bike also. check santa cruz for your proper size blur (if thats your choice. hope so!) |
| RE: | Mike T
Sep 20, 2003 5:42 PM | | Yeah I agree service is key, I'm not up-in-arms about this topic, just wondering how others feel.
Mike |
| Nice Blur... | Mike T
Sep 20, 2003 5:57 PM | | I'm test riding one soon hope it's what I expect
;-)
Mike |
| i beg to differ about how good vision is | mikeb
Sep 21, 2003 8:44 AM | | they'll be good to you if you're spending a whole ton of cash.
my experience with vision and the owner there dates back to 1997, when he was at another shop, and another shop after that, then he got the location on stanyan street. after he purchased vision, i kept getting charged more and more for labor until i decided to raise a stink about it. when my employer slowed down our schedules and i was unable to maintain my bikes as well as i'd used to, i noticed that it seemed like at times i was more of a pain in the ass to the owner than a friend.
hey man, times are tough all around.
when you're dealing with a customer who is fiercely loyal to you and has only done business with YOU for the past several years, you make concessions to keep said customer happy.
i'd like to use bike shops as my source of parts and labor, but i simply do not have the money to pay what they're asking for said parts and labor. i know that the margins are thin--maybe you manufacturers out there need to stop gouging the shops and offer your products at price points that are a little more reasonable. don't feed me any bullsh*t, you know that it is possible to cut a shop a five percent to seven percent break and still make money. everyone in every business in america needs to stop being such a hard ass about maximizing profits.
there is no reason that the wtb motoraptor sold for twenty four dollars through a mail order house should cost forty dollars in the shop.
all of you need to get real and stop being so god damned greedy.
my two cents. |
| i beg to differ about how good vision is | C/ VSF
Sep 25, 2003 10:06 AM | | Mike , I suggest you go to some other shops , and see what they would have charged you for labor, you'd realize that you were not over charged at all, and actually got quite a deal, and oplease don't swear in front of customers , like the mom and two kids that you scared out of here, I'm sooo happy you can control your self like an adult....and call me greedy all you want, yuour wrong.period.Charlie/Vision SF |
| I like the idea, but... | Mikerj
Sep 19, 2003 4:44 PM | | for 50/hr they better let you put the machine through the ringer. $50/hr sounds steep. I do like the idea though because you wouldn't feel obligated to buy the bike after you took it on a real test ride. You'd also be able to try more bikes without getting that "so are ya gonna buy that bike or what?" look from the shop guy. Heck, if the rental price were right I'd like to do it just to get to check out different rides.
Mike |
| re: Bike Shops charging for test rides | XCBob
Sep 19, 2003 6:29 PM | | I was in a LBS the other day to pick-up a new set a tires. While I was there the owner saw me eyeing a new Blur. He looked out at my car an saw my Fuel 100 on the roof rack and practically begged be to take a Blur he had as a demo for a test ride on a nearby(10 minute car ride) trail for the afternoon(a couple hours). I declined. I knew if I did I would like the Blur alot more than the Fuel and I didn't have 4 grand burning a whole in my pocket. I'm sure he was just trying to make a sale. I'm sure there are guys out there just going around trying to demo bikes that they never had any intention to buy(or could buy). I'm sure bikes come back damaged from demos(and rentals). I think paying a rental fee for a "demo ride" sucks, but it may be enough to keep out the riff-raff(no offense Mike). Maybe the $50 made for the rental will offset the "deprication" of the ride on that bike? |
| re: Bike Shops charging for test rides | Learux
Sep 19, 2003 8:02 PM | | Well I disagree, but only if the money goes to the purchase of the bike. A good bikeshoip is worth its weight in gold.
So a testride on 5 or 6 different models, so you can decide wich one you like best is beautifull.
If else fails testride it and buy it online.
But I totally disagree with people who go testride a bike try all models and then buy the one they liek the best online:(
Competition is tough these days and I would have no problems paying money for a test. Off course I allready bought an epic from them so I can testride whatever I want.
Keep it fair!
Learux |
| re: Bike Shops charging for test rides | texan
Sep 19, 2003 8:10 PM | | I work at a lbs and we don't let people ride the new bikes off road. How do you expect a bike shop to sell a bike if it comes back damaged/scratched/bent-rims with dirt all over the bike/tires/components. the owner of the bike shop usually pays money to get the bike there and the owner doesn't make any money unless someone buys it. and the owner has to pay for someone to clean up your mess by the hour. It is near impossible to sell a bike to someone for a regular price if they found out the bike had 5-20 miles of trail rides on it, i would think they would want 100 off or more because the bike isn't a virgin trail bike. afterwards the person goes and buys the bike and or all the parts online somewhere or at another shop and brings the stuff in and us, the LBS to build it or fix it. if you are interested in taking a bike for a demo ride off road i would say 75 an hour would be a good price for it, and if you decided to buy that bike from that store, the rental fee should go towards your puchase at that LBS, and if you decide to go elsewhere you just gave the owner a headache, and they prolly talk trash about you when you leave their store |
| re: Bike Shops charging for test rides | Mike T
Sep 19, 2003 9:36 PM | | Well I have no problem with leaving a full deposit/cc#, sign a waiver, so if anything does happen it's covered - you break it, you buy it, etc., etc. I also have no problem with cleaning the bike afterwards, and if I'm too lazy then charge me. I'm not asking the shop to just give me a bike and hope for the best. The problem with the rental fee going to the sale of the bike is obvious, at $50/hr (or $75!?!? are you kidding?) once you're finished testing all the models your interested in (five in my case) you could end up spending a serious amount of cash assuming you must go to differnt shops to test ride the various makes (which, for me, would again be five)
As for giving the owner a headache - dealing with customers is part of the business and when your selling $3k to $4k bicycles I would think you would be willing to put up with some higher priced demands.
I also fully intend to support my LBS. In fact the entire reason I posted this is because the first shop I went to is allowing me take a Santa Cruz Blur out for the entire day for nothing. I was therefore wondering why other shops were not willing to do the same. I guess some places offer more service than others.
Mike |
| re: Exactly | Hardline
Sep 20, 2003 6:58 AM | | If I were going to purchase a bike for 3-4K I would want a bike that is clean and fresh from the box.If the bike has been on 1 or a couple of test ride you have to figure that it would depreciate the bike.If the shop put out a free afternoon at the trails you would have a ton of looky loos riding bikes that they have NO intension to buy.It makes it hard for the shops and for the people that actually want to get a bike but there is so little margin in the shops I do not see another way. |
| look at it this way..... | walter
Sep 19, 2003 8:55 PM | | if i was a shop owner and some shmoe came in and wanted to take one of my 3k+ bikes for a ride, your damn skippy i'd ask for cash or a credit card. And, you want to take that bike on a trail?, would you be upset if i asked you to clean it upon return, because if you dont, i have to pay my guys to make a ridden bike look like new again. Personally, if you can afford a "high end sports car", and your "in the market" for a full squisher, drop the 50 clams to test the bikes. Do all of us lbs shoppers a favor, if you dont plan to buy from them, dont waste their time. Happy test riding, Walter |
| look at it this way..... | Mike T
Sep 19, 2003 9:56 PM | | I agree with you and I would be willing to leave a full deposit/CC#, sign a waiver stating that I am fully responsible for the bike in all manners (including cleaning). In fact, that's the deal I had with the first LBS I went to. They are allowing me to test ride a Large Blur first and then an X-Large (they offered)at no charge.
I also intend to buy from my LBS, but if I tested all the models I'm interested in (that's five) at all the bike shops necessary (five again)and the each want to charge $50/hr that's $250 just on rentals (if I had each bike for only an hour). If a shop truly wants to give me the best service, and win me over then I don't think they should considered it a waste of time dealing with the me the customer. If your asking $3k-$4k+ for a bike then you should be willing to give a little "high end" service. |
| Bikes depreciation unlike cars, wouldn't want unknowns washing | Bianchi4Me
Sep 20, 2003 7:48 AM | | It's a problem, that's for sure. It's a huge deterrent to have to spend $250 to test ride a few bikes. The lurking presence of mail-order is a big part of this problem. The local shops main advanatge is that they can allow you to "try-before-you-buy". However, then they are cursed with tons of folks trying stuff out (and wearing it out) so they can then buy it mail-order for less.
The credit card deposit thing isn't very practical. The customer can always dispute the charge. "That scratch was there when I got it." "One little scratch isn't worth $150, are you insane!" Who decides objectively what damage is actually worth? I forsee a series of customers cursing me out and/or having to fill out lots of elaborate paperwork trying to explain and enforce these charges. Then having a series of customers blackening my name for the rest of their lives. "Don't ride a bike at XYZ, they're con men who will charge your card hundreds of bucks for one little scratch." Bleah.
Here's a fun thought. Some customers will INTENTIONALLY damage products cosmetically, so they can buy it later at a marked-down price. Used to happen all the time in my "bag boys" days at the supermarket. People would come up holding dented cans and want to buy them at a discount. We wouldn't do it because then people would be running around the store denting everything in sight and bringing us the damaged items they "found" for a mark-down. I can see some twerp putting a big-ole "accidental" scratch on the downtube so he or a bud can come in later and ask for a $200 discount.
So the obvious solution is to provide a number of demo bikes and just sell them at cost at the end of the model year. That's what high-end car dealers sometimes do. BUT, cars don't come in size. Sending somebody out on the wrong size bike is a "no-sale" waiting to happen. So you are talking about stocking three or four bikes for each model you want to demo. That's impossible for all but the highest volume shops. You can't have $12,000 worth of demo bikes for one model sitting around for a year unless you are selling a lot of that model. Heck, most shops don't have that many period, much less as demos.
If I was a shop owner, I would never want an unknown customer washing my bikes and returning them in a "clean" condition. Who says they wouldn't stop by the local car wash and blast the whole thing down with a pressure washer? (I know YOU know better Mike, just talking about "Customer X".) As a shop owner, do you want to have to supervise some customer's washing efforts and go "you missed a spot". It's a pretty awkward situation to have to play temporary boss for someone you are trying to make a sale to. To really get the bike back to "new" condition after being out in serious dirt, you'd practically have to detail the thing. I doubt many customers are going to want to do more than a perfunctory wash-up before they are satisfied the bike is "clean-enough".
The other factor is that unlike a car shopper, a bike shopper's expectation of a new bike is that it will have just come out of the box. Nobody (well, almost nobody) bats an eye at buying a "new" car with 50 miles on it. Not the same for bikes. They find dust in between the grip and the shifter, and they're saying "Hey...this is a used bike, isn't it?"
A better comparison would be if you ask a car dealer if they'll let you test-ride a jeep off-road, and bring it back with the odd scratch and covered in dirt. Betcha some places are even okay with that, but a lot of them probably aren't.
We need a virtual-reality bike simulator to go in the stores, I think.... ;-) |
| Well said B4, and as a shop employee... | jcw
Sep 21, 2003 8:41 PM | | we deal with this complaint from time to time. We demo bikes for $35 for a 24 hour period. However if you're a good customer that we know well, we'll let 'em take one out for free for the afternoon. The problem with the free test ride is, once that word gets out, every semi-serious biker in your area will be lining up to try out the bikes. It'd look like the dirt demo at interbike. |
| Get this- promoter charging to WATCH races....... | FunkyFunkFunk
Sep 20, 2003 8:18 AM | | WTF??? That's nuts.
Top field at K2/Widmer Brothers Star-Crossed Cyclocross
K2/Widmer Brothers Star-Crossed Cyclocross has attracted a top-notch field to kick off the international cyclocross season for 2003-2004 at King County's Marymoor Park in Redmond, Washington on September 27th. Headlining the men's and women's fields will be US national champion Anne Grande (Kona/Kenwood) and U23 cyclo-cross and MTB cross-country national Adam Craig (Giant/Pearl Izumi).
"Last year we put on maybe the best cycling show the Northwest has seen in ten years," defending champion and co-promoter Jonny Sundt said. "With this year's national class field we should be able to elevate the event to the biggest show in US cyclocross."
Spectators can watch the entire race unfold on the challenging floodlit course at the Marymoor Velodrome. Races for beginning and intermediate riders start the day at 4:00pm with the headlining senior men's race at 8:00pm. Beginning riders are welcome on mountain bikes with the purchase of a one-day racing pass, available at the event. Rider entry fee $20, spectators $3. For more information, contact Terry at 425-462-1326, www.broadmarkcycling.com/starcrossed. |
| Whoa..hope NASCAR/NHRA/CART don't start charging...oh wait... nm | Bianchi4Me
Sep 20, 2003 5:14 PM | | nm |
| the difference is | Funkenstein
Sep 20, 2003 7:31 PM | | those drivers are pros. These are a bunch of hack amateurs who themselves are paying to participate. So parents who wanna see their kid race or GF/BF who wants to watch SO hafta pay $3? That's kinda BS for a local race. They don't even charge at most Euro races, with the exception of some WCs, CDMs, etc. Heck, even the MTB worlds at Vail were entirely FREE. |
| Promoter pays for non-participants... | Bianchi4Me
Sep 20, 2003 9:44 PM | | The promoter has to pay for insurance coverage for the folks standing around watching the race. Hopefully they are also providing bathrooms for them, making sure they have a place to park, etc. This may not cost them much, but it does take some time and effort.
At World Cup events, you have corporate sponsors paying lots of cash for naming rights and demo space at the race grounds. So there is a cash flow coming in from another source to offset expenses. That's not the case at your local CX-Race. Most people putting on a local amateur race aren't doing it as a get-rich-quick scheme. |
| Insurance for spectators?! | FFFFFFFFFF
Sep 21, 2003 6:40 AM | | if you say so |
| Yup. When I apply for race insurance... | shiggy©®
Sep 21, 2003 8:16 PM | | ... there is are spaces asking about number of volunteers and number of spectators in addition to number of riders. |
| Small sports | Dwight Moody
Sep 22, 2003 7:40 AM | | Most of the Judo tournaments I participated in charged for spectators. It was just a way to help fund the event without raising entrance fees for competitors too high. |
| My thoughts... | JmZ
Sep 20, 2003 7:08 PM | | Most local shops hold to the parking lot only test ride.
There are a few other options locally though. We have a few shops that offer demo rides at some of the trail maint events. We have other shops that rent bikes. It would be great if the local shop had a short loop right there that you could try a bike on, but I don't see that likely for most shops.
And I think there are some shops that can have shipped in demo bikes from some companies. I think these are done as rentals. Most of the rental fees were closer to the $50 a day if I remember correctly.
The $50 (or $75) an hour seems excessive. I can rent a car, tools, and a lot of other stuff for less than that an hour. $50 for a weekend, or maybe just a day, but NOT an hour.
If the shop is worried about damage to a bike, then they can get a few demo bikes, and they don't all have to be the high zoot model either. I'm not talking a fleet here, but relative to the shop. Rent them out, at a reasonable charge, and then sell 'em at the end of the year.
It doesn't have to cost the shop an arm and a leg. A Specialized FSR-XC was the same frame throughout the line, or very close to it, same with Rocky Mountain duallies. Don't need to have the top of the line model to see how the suspension will work if the frame is identical. I know this doesn't help with Tracers, Tazers, Moots and the like, but... Plus if a shop that did that around here, it would be a great way to give them a great reputation.
JmZ |
| My thoughts... | VAnrs2
Sep 20, 2003 8:59 PM | | The LBS here does exactly what was stated earlier. The yget a few demo bikes in and let people take them out for free then sell them at a discounted rate later on. All it would take is one person to buy a new bike and the cost involved in that bike is recouped and you also get people in your shop to try out different models. No one ever complains when they buy a car that has 500 miles on it so quit moaning about a few trail miles on your bike. Now trying to sell that demo bike at full cost is silly in my mind. |
| $50 an hour is really steep, but | WarrGuru
Sep 21, 2003 6:20 AM | | $50 a day is about the going rate. Although, if you are at the point where you think you are going to buy......a $50 ride might be worth it. Most bikes shops can't afford to let you test ride bikes. Once the bike had been thrashed, they can't sell it as new. What does the LBS do if a tube gets dinged?
I wish all of the LBS would rent bikes. That would make test riding easy. Narrow your choices to 2 or 3 and test ride them all day. I did that when I was choosing my last bike. I rented a Blur for a day and did an epic ride on it. |
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