|   Speedplay Frogs vs 959s vs new ATACs vs Eggs (x-post)... | SS_MB-7
Nov 26, 2003 8:17 AM | | I'm going to be on a new shop team for the '04 season. My disciplines are (in order of number of races): MTB, cyclocross and road. The team is going to be sponsored by Speedplay. I'm being offered a set of free Speedplay pedals for MTB/cross (Frogs) and road (Zero or X-Series). The catch is, if I take the pedals, I must use them.
I have zero experience with any Speedplay pedals. I've owned lots of Shimanos (535s, 737s, 747s and now 959s), lots of Time ATACs (3 pairs of Carbons and 1 pair of Ti), 2 pairs of the first generation Crank Bros EggBeaters and 1 pair of BeBops.
Thus far, the 959s are my favorite pedal. They've been bomb-proof through a year's worth of racing, training, etc. I've only had 1 incident in over a year where the combination of mud, snow and leaves jammed them-up....I then swapped to Eggs and was fine. Other than that, the 959s are an excellent, reliable, consistent pedal.
I liked Eggs, but I've been burned by them a couple times: 2 busted cleats, 1 busted pedal (outboard bearing failed causing the body to separate from the spindle), excessive bushing slop, etc. Granted, I've yet to find a better pedal in the mud, snow, etc. The 959s come pretty close though. In each case, Crank Bros was quick to warranty the issue, but that does me little good during a race/ride when I can't race/ride.
What I don't like about the Eggs and ATACs is the "floaty" feel, lateral movement, etc. The 959s are very solid. The new ATACs seemed to have addressed this issue, so I'm curious about this. Also, my older ATACs all suffered from bearing slop, cracked top plates and buster cleat retention springs. Not to mention, both the Eggs and ATACs had cleats that wore through very, very fast...relative to the 959 cleats.
Also, I found that with the Eggs and ATACs, the cleat retention clips wore through the base of my Shimano 220 Carbons and 320s way too fast.
As for the BeBops....I absolutely hated them. Yes, they are damn light but they were completely inconsistent for entry/exit. I sold them after a week.
My concern with the Speedplays is that they are very similar to the BeBops. The cleats looks very clunky and look very prone to trapping mud, snow, small pebbles, grit, gravel, etc. Again, I've never used Speedplays, so this may not be an issue. Also, they have lots of free float.
On the road side of things, I've used Campy Record pedals, Look 396s and am now on the new Shimano Ultegras. By far, the Shimanos are the best I've tried....quiet, reliable, consistent, etc. I found the Records to be very inconsistent for entry/exit, the cleats wore-out very fast and they creaked. With the Looks, although the entry/exit was far more consistent than the Campys, the bearings developed premature play and they developed the infamous Look creak...argh!
As it stands now, I've asked my shop if demo-ing a set of Speedplays would be an option. Still waiting a reply.
Any comments on Speedplays (MTB and road)?
Ride Hard,
Mike B.
http://www.one-speed.com |
| re: Speedplay Frogs vs 959s vs new ATACs vs Eggs (x-post)... | BadHabit
Nov 26, 2003 10:04 AM | | I expect you will not care for Frogs. Lots of float and problems with mud in cleats, even the new style cleats that are somewhat more self-cleaning. But the new cleats do not seem to either hold or release quite as well as the old no-longer-available style cleat. I like Frogs but I do not race or ride much in mud, and I have noticed the problems with the new cleats. |
| 959s | GregR..
Nov 26, 2003 11:26 AM | | I used the Frogs, and X2s, ATAC, (not eggs tho).
I rode the frogs for a long time, and liked them a lot. I tried the 959s and since then ripped every other pedal off my bikes (including road bike) and slapped 959's on them.
If you like 959s, just use them and don't worry about the other free stuff. |
| re: Speedplay Frogs vs 959s vs new ATACs vs Eggs (x-post)... | RandyW
Nov 26, 2003 10:33 AM | | I've used Speedplay pedals for both MTB and road for years. I wouldn't consider anything else for the road. So light, and I really like the float. You do have a "sliding on ice" feeling until you get used to it, but now I don't feel like I could live without it.
The Frogs are nice too. I've had 4 pairs of them, 3 of them several years old and well used, and I've only had one problem, durability-wise. The oldest pair lost the ring that interfaces with the cleat on one side. My newest pair came with the "new-style" cleats, and I'm not too sure about those. Ever since I mounted those cleats, I've had a few entry & release issues that I never used to have. The thing I don't care much for is that they can be a real bitch if you're not clipped in. This doesn't happen often, but once in a while you need to get started or something without clipping in right away. There's only that little metal ring there making contact with the shoe. Again, I really like the float, and find it especially beneficial on my SS. When I'm really honking on the pedals to get up a hill, the float lets my legs do what they want/need to do to put out the power. Maybe that only makes sense to me, but it's something I've noticed.
That said, I just bought a new bike that had Shimano 520's, which is a cheaper version of the 959. I thought I'd give them a try to see if I was missing out on anything. I liked them fine, but I see myself probably going back to my Frogs, especially considering the 120 gram weight difference.
Also, I tried the Eggs when they first came out, and I absolutely hated them.
Okay, done rambling. Hopefully, if you try hard, you may be able to find some useful info out of all that.
Randy |
| re: Speedplay Frogs vs 959s vs new ATACs vs Eggs (x-post)... | GregC
Nov 26, 2003 11:24 AM | | Very plain and simple....If you don't like a "floaty" feel to you pedals you WILL hate Frogs.
I train and race in them year round and love them. Never once had and issue with mud or the like.
I also love speedplay road pedals x-series. Very light but have tons of float.
Demo demo demo!
Greg |
| re: Speedplay Frogs vs 959s vs new ATACs vs Eggs (x-post)... | iceaxe
Nov 26, 2003 5:22 PM | | My good friend has been using the SP frogs and hates them. Apparently, getting into them is not very intuitive and you have to rotate a lot to release. I use Speed play zeros on my road bike and love them-they're better than the Dura-ace pedals I used. Adjustable everything and very light weight. They have no side-to-side play and I have never gotten stuff stuck in the cleat that would hinder its performance. The X-series is similar, but with out the adjustments; they also tend to feel like your standing on blocks of ice.
On my mtb, I use egg beaters-I ride all year round (in michigan) so the mud/snow shedding ability is very appreicated. I really don't notice any lateral float on the egg beaters-- atleast not to the degree that the time pedals have. The first generartion EB's weren't very durable-I have had to rebuild mine already. Supposedly the newest iteration of the pedal has fixed this problem. Also, the new time pedals have gotten rid of the lateral float that the old ones had.
I use Sidi action srs shoes and I did get some bar wear in my soles in the first month, but it hasn't gotten any worse.
If you can, I say take the zeros and forget the frogs. I don't like the frogs either but I don't have much more than one ride to base that opinion on. Good luck choosing |
| That's exactly what I'm thinking. Thanks all for the feedback (nm | SS_MB-7
Nov 26, 2003 6:00 PM | | |
| re: Speedplay Frogs vs 959s vs new ATACs vs Eggs (x-post)... | dan K
Nov 26, 2003 7:42 PM | | I rode for Speedplay for many years, and continued to do so after the sponsorship ended/I quit racing so much. I had great luck with the Frogs but found them to be so-so in mud. Great customer support. You get used to the pedals really quickly and I find them faster to disengage than my EBs.
I like the EBs but do not like how they release when you slam them on rocks or when my low bb causes the crank/pedal to hit. I am giving them to my girlfriend. I also don't want them to dig into my new 221s.
I am waiting for more feedback on the new ATACs because it sounds like they are the best of all pedals for my needs.
On the road, you can't beat Speedplays. I rode LOOKs forever but the X2s advantages make it a superior road pedal.
Hmmm, if you ride lots of mud you will NOT like the Frogs. That alone would make me not want to use them if I were you. |
| I find it odd how most Frog users say... | SS_MB-7
Nov 27, 2003 5:50 AM | | I find it odd how most Frog users say that I'll not like the pedal in mud. I thought the main selling feature of the Frog was it's mud-capabilities?
Since a lot of my racing/riding/training is done in the mud, snow, etc. during the spring/fall months, I don't think the Frogs are for me. I've been really happy with my 959s and I'll wait and see how the new ATACs are reviewed. I'm likely going to try a set of the Speeds for the road though.
Ride Hard,
Mike B.
http://www.one-speed.com |
| re: Speedplay Frogs, ATACs , Eggs... | itsdoable
Nov 27, 2003 6:40 AM | | Hi Mike,
Pedal History: Toe Clips - Onza - Frogs - Times + Eggs.
My experience is with Speedplay is with the mtb frogs only, several years ago (old cleat design). Ran a pair for over a year, found them to be a good pedal. The ball bearing like rotational float was easy to get use to, but not for every one. Exit and entry was good. Mud performance was good for the times, wet mud was never a problem, clay like mud or packed snow-ice would prevent entry, but due to the open cleat design, one tap on the shoe almost always cleared the cleat. In those days, my buddies rode Shimano, and the Frogs were superior in the mud & snow.
My issues with the Frogs were that they could ONLY disengage heel out. Nornally this was not an issue, but I had a slow speed endo in deep snow where the bike fell to the right, and my right foot could not disengage as a result. As the bike fell off to the right, it twisted my foot & leg that way, and since it would not disengage, my knee took a large twist load that was not appriciated. That and the cost of replacement cleats (my old cleat did not last long) encouraged me to switch to Times. I still have the old Frog pedal lying around in a box.
Since Frog float feels so different from most other pedals, I would highly recommend that you try them first (you can try mine if you want) - and you should run them for a while to get use to the float. I have no experience with the road pedals, but the people I know that use them, like them.
Cheers,
Tom |
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