|   Sequoia National Fotest/Park....war zone or national treasu | Mountain^^^Man
Aug 21, 2003 2:26 PM | | A few years ago, one could delite in seeing pictures of mt. bikers enjoying deep woods rides around the perimeter of this beautiful park(I don't mean in the park, I know that's illegal) amongst ancient giants. Does anyone dare tread there these days though, with the Magana cartel so busy terrorizing everyone? I've read that only 25% of what's going on there gets stopped, and that's a best case scenario. I don't think legalizing pot as many mt. bikers want would solve the problem. Shouldn't more funding and manpower be devoted to this task? |
| re: Sequoia National Fotest/Park....war zone or national treasu | The Preacher
Aug 21, 2003 4:40 PM | | Please tell me more about this area. I was going to make an exploration trip to Camp Nelson last year, then the big fire hit so I cancelled. Is there riding to be had there?? What "cartel" are you talking about?? |
| re: Sequoia National Fotest/Park....war zone or national treasu | Mountain^^^Man
Aug 21, 2003 5:35 PM | | This area has been dangerous due to illegal pot farms funded by a drug cartel from Mexico called Magana. With tighter control on our borders(especially since 911), the cartels are finding it easier to send people up here(Sequoia Forest/Park-I live in the northwest myself), rather than smuggling pot across. The people they hire are quite often leveraged into doing so with threats against their lives or their families.8o% of the pot in California now comes from these cartels(80% of the cartel trafic being the Magana). The choice to use pot is no longer one of an "innocent" hippie, exercising his passion to be rebelious. There are serious crimes being committed. They are protecting their illegal farms with barbed wire fences, boobie traps(some lethal), using EPA banned toxic pesticides, and diverting stream water to irrigate. They are armed with automatic weapons, and treat ANY passerbys as a threat and potential pot thieves.
As for the big fire, it actually helped in some ways as many illegal farm caretakers were forced out of their hiding places, many filthy and hungry from trying to survive.
I don't know all the details on this subject, but most of the testimonials I've read from the enforcement people involved indicate a need for more backing.
If you type something like Sequoia pot farm in a Google search, there are many links from different types of sources on this subject.
This issue should strike close to the hearts of ANY forest lover, whether they use the trails or not. As well, it's an issue in general linked to many similar problems within our borders and deserves our attention. In Washington state, where I live these cartels are seeking similar operations. And more recently, are employing people to run "super meth labs", near dump sites on the Olympic penninsula. The scary thing there is the pseudo ephedrine they're getting to make the stuff, is supplied by middle east terrorists hiding out just north in Canada.
I don't mean to harp about character judgement, but this kind of thing makes you wonder if you can trust any "recreational" drug users. Quite frankly, I'm ashamed that many mt. bikers are using and tolerating the consequences of drugs. |
| re: Sequoia National Fotest/Park....war zone or national treasu | Strider
Aug 22, 2003 12:10 AM | | This isn't the place for it, and not really interested in getting into a political debate, but I think your blaming individuals choosing a socially unacceptable rec. drug, rather then the acceptable variety (alcohol, caffeine, nicotine), for funding terrorism ludicrous. Thought it was ludicrous when I started seeing the ads stating it and think so hearing it here. The ads aren't surprising when taking in light of another recent ad stating, I can't remember the exact number, but something in the range of 80% of people arrested for dui testing positive for weed. Of course, they leave out that... again I don't remember the exact number, but a huge majority of those people also were legally drunk. The problem is that there is no controls over the sale of illegal drugs because it's illegal. Were these users given the choice to legally do what they like with their own bodies, and pay the inevitable taxes on the product, their money could have gone towards the US's war on terrorism. *sigh*. Anyways, I'm not writing a thing more on this. This isn't the place, but I felt that your posted deserved a retort. I am by no means siding with the cartels, but you have the blame misdirected imho.
-John
PS. I haven't done any rec. drugs other then alcohol and caffeine for quite a long time.
PSS. Back to lurker mode, will not post another thing 'bout this. Feel like I'm likely to regret this. |
| re: Sequoia National Fotest/Park....war zone or national treasu | Mountain^^^Man
Aug 23, 2003 5:24 PM | | Well Strider, kudos for laying off the hard stuff, but the ads can in some cases, be a drug. I agree that quite often they are biased and misslead people, however there are many sources of information on this subject other than the ads. The cartels in Ca. ARE 80% of the pot traffic in that state. 80% of that 80% is the Magana cartel. Pot IS the largest cash crop in Ca. Therefore, MOST people buying it in Ca. are supporting these cartels whether they know it or not. These cartels ARE busy with the same activities in other states, and HAVE had some of their "cookers" arrested up here in Wa. state running super meth labs. They DO buy the pseudo ephedrine to make the meth from middle east terrorists hiding in Canada. Keep in mind, any facts regaurding such arrests is public information that ANYONE can reasearch. Even the often biased news media is very carefull about reporting such facts due to potential lawsuits. There are other sources of these facts however.
Thanks for your involvement, whether you agree with me or not. I feel this is an issue that is often overlooked, and deserves our attention, even if it creates a heated debate. |
| re: Sequoia National Fotest/Park....war zone or national treasu | Tiedupinknots
Sep 3, 2003 11:43 PM | | Wouldn't the legalization and heavy taxing of drugs serve to lessen the funds to terrorist networks more effectively than anything else? I'd prefer to blame the right wing fools that pump the money into the "war on drugs". |
| re: Sequoia National Fotest/Park....war zone or national treasu | Tiedupinknots
Sep 3, 2003 11:44 PM | | My apologies. This isn't the forum for such discussion. |
| Source please | Dwight Moody
Sep 4, 2003 6:34 AM | | The scary thing there is the pseudo ephedrine they're getting to make the stuff, is supplied by middle east terrorists hiding out just north in Canada.
Where did you get this? It sounds like the worst War on Terror/War on Drugs bullshit ever cooked up. I can get pseudoephidrine at the corner store in Boston MA, so let's not make it sound like it's the hardest thing in the world to come by. Statistics on how much drug trade is controlled by whom is always a wild guess (they don't file tax forms, you know.), so the cartel claim is just bullshit from the feds who are pissed at California for legalizing medical weed.
There have been armed and boobytrap pot fields in the state parks for decades now, this isn't new news. They're there because of the propery confinscation laws put in effect in the eighties. |
| re: That is some freaky shat, that I was completely unaware of.. | The Preacher
Aug 22, 2003 9:01 AM | | I agree with Strider, that this is not the forum to discuss the pros and cons of legalizing drugs, but if you have any specific links or information of exactly what areas/trails of the Seq. Nat'l Forest are affected by this, I would be very interested. I will check out Google, etc. when I get a few minutes. |
| Victims of nothing but your own pathetic vices. | Mountain^^^Man
Sep 11, 2003 11:35 PM | | I don't really have much more to say to speculative, ill informed citizens, but will add this. It's one thing to sit in your own space and think you're exercising your "right" to do drugs, quite another to tear down, for no reason other than your pathetic self righteous denial, the administration that's trying to end this every day tragedy of loose morals and ill gotten pride.
There ARE facts behind the arrests of the meth labs I mentioned, if you'd stop whining about the US stepping on your frivilous affair with narcotics long enough to read them. Pseudo ephedrine CAN be purchased over the counter, but no one in their right mind would make them selves visible enough to the authorities in purchasing the kind of quanities to make 25lbs worth of meth in such a way.
I think it's very appropriate that I respond to your narrow minded and drug clouded replies on the weekend of 9-11. Legalizing pot is only going to let terrorists in where they've already got a foot in the door. The pot culture in this country WILL get a wake up call, and soon laws regaurding it will get more strict and better enforced as have the cigarette laws. The citizens of the US are slowly waking up to the repercussions of passively accepting the childish and out dated hippie ways of our past. |
| There are facts.... | Dwight Moody
Sep 12, 2003 9:33 AM | | Like the crime rate in Holland is much lower than the USA, despite the easy and legal availablity of pot, and the distribution of herion to registered addicts.
Like the fact pot causes far, far less mental and physical damage than alcohol.
Like you just state "there are facts", but can't point to a web page. Your facts are about as apparent to me as the 72 virgins waiting for the 9/11 terrorists.
How on Earth is legalizing marijuana going to "let the terrorists in". The mafia was decimated by the end of prohibition, they went from running a billion dollar industry back to their much less lucrative extortion and racketeering roots. Then they got in the drug trade. Legalizing weed merely cuts off a criminal activity. If the growers have to be licensed (like a brewery), and the dealers have to be licensed (like a liquor store), how are the criminals going to get licenses?
It's way easier for a kid to get pot than it is to get beer. That's what "the war on drugs" has achieved. |
| There are facts....then there are idiots that are clueless | Mountain^^^Man
Sep 12, 2003 9:06 PM | | You know, I'm really getting tired of these childish bitches against our government for fighting against drug cartels, terrorists, you name it. If you wan't to go live in Holland PLEASE DO. The quality of their life, and the crime and violence on their streets has not exactly been BETTER with their drug laws. You're hearing propoganda from them to excuse their huge international drug trade. 80% of the Ecstacy in this country comes from Amsterdam, and our goverernment is fed up with it, and rightfully so. Do you really think even pot is legal in Amsterdam? The fact is, it's only allowed in select bars that pay a permit, their government still raids growing ops there. You clearly don't know your facts. As for the mafia being "decimated by prohibition", WHAT A CROCK! The mafias biggest business has always been drugs, gambling, and prostitution, as far as vice trades go, ending prohibition barely put a dent in them. The part that REALLY pisses me off the most, is that heresay and propoganda spewing fools such as yourself, see fit to accusing people that ARE up on the news, just because they are too lazy to research it themselves! There has been much news about a large drug bust uncovering supermeth labs operating in the Olympic Penninsula area of the northwest, which were run by the same drug cartels with pot growing ops in California and other areas. They WERE getting their supplies from Middle East terrorists in BC. Do you really think legalizing pot is just going to make them go away magically? I'm picturing you as the type of person sitting around with a bong in your hand smoking God knows what from where ever you can get it and trusting what your stoned friends say to be the gospel truth about the world out there that you probably never really get involved in. By all means, move to Holland, do us CONCERNED citizens a favor.
As far as the FACTS, use Google you moron, I'm not your frickin' tutor. |
| Glass houses and stone's don't mix. | Dwight Moody
Sep 16, 2003 7:23 AM | | some jackhole.
Two seconds on google and I find plenty of news, facts and opinions that don't support your case. I guess that's why you didn't do the search yourself.
The reason I don't move to Holland is because I love America, it's a great place. I just want it to be even better, and I think stopping the waste of billions of dollars of tax payer money would be a nice start. |
| Oh yeah, I forgot to mention | Dwight Moody
Sep 16, 2003 7:26 AM | | I haven't done drugs in years. Used to, hell, used to smoke pot everyday. I had a job, had girlfriends, had friends, stayed in touch with my family. But pot got boring, so I quit. How many daily drinkers do you know who can tell that story? |
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