|   XCE fork choice: Coil vs Air vs Black vs Psylo vs Fox | Braids
Jan 9, 2003 11:24 AM | | Like everybody else I just got a XCE with the Vanilla RC in the rear. I head into the hospital to have it removed tomorrow. *rimshot*
Anyway... I'm having one problem building it up though, I don't know what front shock to put on it. I don't know if I want coil or air...
I can get a 2002 Psylo race or Sl or a 2002 Manitou Black elite or super. I would be getting the 100/120 version of the blacks.
I'm considering the 2003 models of the above plus the 2003 Fox Vanilla or Float too.
I currently have a 2001 Mars Elite and I like the coil/air for my soft tail but obviously the XCE will be used differently. I've been looking at reviews of this bike and the respective forks but it seems like everybody who has owned this bike or the above forks is over 200lbs and I'm under 200lbs. The reviews of people over 200lbs are not speaking to my needs as a rider. I will be using this bike for more aggressive XC use than my softail.
I'm thinking that I may not need a coil fork at my weight but the rear end is coil and if you match coil with air you die or something worse than that. I think you get an Ellsworth Truth with a cane creek in the rear but who would want that? *rimshot* THe FOX float is also not available in 125mm version and it's not adjustable on the fly like the black and psylo.
I would like being able to move the front end to around 5" sometimes but if it's at the cost of fork performance (Manitou Blacks because they change travel by preloading the spring?) I don't want to do it.
Comments on the Psylo or Black? I know that some Psylos and some Blacks are air and coil. I believe the Black Super is coil/air which may actually be what I want.
The Talas is not an option unless the new version is out before March.
Comments on coil vs air?
Help?
Thanks in advance. |
| That Truth comment wasn't funny...... | jdcamb
Jan 9, 2003 12:43 PM | | I run the Psylo Race and like it a lot. I have the 2002 model and it is very adjustable and easy to service. I have had no problems with it. The impression I got from you while riding at Kelso was that you don't like to dhick around with your fork. The fork I would recommend for you would be the Fox Forx Vanilla RLC. I had the oppurtunity to ride one and it was awesome. Very stiff, very plush, and would match your rear fine (I wouldn't know to much about that because I didn't see much of it *rimshot*). Now I haven't actually owned one but my buddy who has one loves it. He says that it is easy to maintain too. It also has internally adjustable travel so if you don't like it at 125mm then you can set it to 100mm. Coil shocks always feel better then air for the most part IMO. Right now I have seen them going for around $425/475 US (depending on who you trust here) so that would work out to about $6000 CN. Goodluck getting me to buy one for you too! Kidding. My .02.....jdcamb |
| define funny.... | Braids
Jan 9, 2003 4:21 PM | | I don't mind playing around with my fork I just expect if I send it into a shop to be rebuilt that the bushings are pressed in right and not loose like they were at Kelso.
You never responded to my email about heading down your way for a ride. How often do you get up here?
How would I get the fork up here if someone from the US were to buy it for me? |
| I come up...... | jdcamb
Jan 10, 2003 4:13 AM | | About once a month. My Family is up there. I don't remember getting a message from you about riding down here. Only snowbiking here now and since the snowmobilers haven't been allowed to go out for a month (some insurance crap) the trails really aren't packed down yet. We have no nightlife in Rochester so I head up to Toronto for that. Next time I come up I can page you.....jdcamb |
| Ooooh, easy one! Fox Vanilla (RL or RLC). | Tscheezy
Jan 9, 2003 1:12 PM | | I'm 180-185 with all my junk. The medium spring which comes with the Vanilla is perfect. Read the reviews on the fork for superaltives. It is a perfect match for the Fox on the rear. You can run it @ 100, 105, and 125mm by playing with the spacers (not an on-trail operation). I find fiddling with travel to be pretty overrated, especially on the Turners which handle much better at their recommended travel, but if the Talas comes out in time consider one of those. It supposedly has all the goodies the Vanilla offers (stiff, buttery smooth, etc) plus being externally adjustable. Personally, I am done with air shocks (famous last words). The Vanilla Fork "feels" the same as the XCE's rear with the Fox, so the balance compliments the bike all around.
In reality, just about any of the shocks you mentioned would work. It is likely that you would be disappointed in the ride of a 5" fork on the XCE though, so getting a fork with that option, or one which makes that option available at the cost of 4" performance (Black), might be a waste. Check out the current XCE and O2 threads over on What Bike to Buy.
tscheezy |
| Doesn't your SO have a psylo? | Braids
Jan 9, 2003 4:24 PM | | I'm less than 180. If I keep riding with the guys I'm riding with I may end up around my racing and coaching weight of 145.
I read the threads you're talking about too. |
| Eeeek! <font size=+1>Busted!</font> | Tscheezy
Jan 9, 2003 4:40 PM | | I throw myself on the mercy of the boards! In a moment of supreme selfishness and cheapness I put my flexy old '01 Psylo SL on my girlfriend's XCE. To throw off suspicion I put the correct spring in for her weight and riding style, set the travel at 100mm, and just changed the oil again yesterday! Have pity!
If it pleases the boards, if I buy a new Fox this year I will give her my old Vanilla RLC with the correct spring... and put the Psylo on my dad's Walmart bike.
tscheezy |
| Meanie! | Braids
Jan 9, 2003 5:29 PM | | So I take it you don't like the psylo or your girlfriend. :-)
It was your photos of that bike that made me think the psylo may be a good fork to run on the XCE. I guess you're saying it's not a good fork to run on the XCE. |
| I have no real opinion on the new Psylos | Tscheezy
Jan 9, 2003 11:40 PM | | I have only owned a 2001 and it was a great fork in its day. I really liked it and it was durable and plush. It is dated now, though, since Fox came out with their stuff. The 2002's and '03s are way stiffer (apparently), so certainly could be considered contenders. They certainly don't match the stiffness and precision of the Fox, so on the XCE if you can afford it and you are in the 170#+ range, I'd go Fox. I figured at 130 pounds fully geared up, my girlfriend would not flex even the old '01 to death. The thing I notice with the old Psylo is that with the entry of water displacing oil from the bushings, the fork tends to bind under loads. But then I have done almost no maintenance on the Psylo in 2 years and it has worked pretty darn well, and the larger bushing overlap in late generation psylos helps this too. The Fox is my first non-Rockshox ever: I've had the RS-1 (the first!), Mag-20, Judy Long Travel, SID SL, Psylo SL. I like RS a lot. The fox is simply a better product though.
tscheezy |
| Not the Black... | slowride
Jan 9, 2003 1:15 PM | | I have a Black, and while it rides nice, there is some question as to the durability... it seems like a lot of it is plastic.
Personally I'd go with the Fox, as I've also heard incredibly mixed opinions on the Psylos.
Also, that adjustable travel isn't all it's cracked up to be. When I bought the Black I thought I'd use it a lot. But I've used it only once (I've had the fork about a year) and that wasn't on a ride, it was in my house right after I installed it. |
| Z1 versus Black Super Air 02 and 03 | Rodi S.
Jan 9, 2003 1:33 PM | | I've used a Marzocchi Z1 Freeride (coil) with 130mm and a Black Super Air 02 with 120mm travel on the same bike (RM Slayer) for quite some time. The Slayer has a Fox Float RL damper in the rear (Air), offering about 125mm of travel. I'm 185lbs.
The Z1 offers a very linear feel of travel. It can be locked down for climbing which is very helpful. There's no problem to match the feel of the rear and front suspension to each other.
The Black Super Air 02 in 120mm travel mode suffers badly from brake dive out of the box. This is something you can easily adopt to by changing your riding style. On the pro side are it's low weight (you save about 350g) and the low axle to crown height (it brings down the front end by 15mm). This changed the Slayer's handling drastically in the direction of a fast reacting, superb climbing CC bike (which I really liked).
When I bought the 03 Black Super Air 100/120 I decided to go for the firm ride kit (stiffer spring). I've then altered the compression damping by flipping the internal (you have to pull out the lockout device) set screw half a turn clockwise. This defenitely cured the brake dive problem which now give's me a coil/air fork that really feels like a coil fork. Another thing I've noticed is that they put quite an amount of oil into the air chamber compared to what is stated in the 02 tech pages. It's at least four time the amount that they used in the 02 air forks. The shorter travel setting is just a (poorly useful) climbing help. Suspension feel is very strange in short travel mode.
I think that an air fork that is properly set up can easily match the suspension feel of a coil fork. It offers you the ability to tune the overall suspension feel exactly to your liking and, in case of the Black Super Air, when the initial travel is controlled by a small coil spring, even small bump absorption is fabulous.
A last word on adjustable travel/climbing helps: it's nice for climbing but I think it's better to save weight. There was a noticeable difference between doing the same trail with the Z1 and the Black. Because the Black is lighter and doesn't built up very high, I've always felt fresher on top of the hill.
Greetings from Switzerland,
Rodi |
| I have both... | fonseca
Jan 9, 2003 11:58 PM | | 2002 psylo sl tullio run at 5" and a 2002 black super air run at 4". Psylo is on my switchblade with an air shock, and the black is on my jamis which is coil. They both "match" perfectly, and I have run several different forks, coil and air, on both bikes. It's all about setting the fork and shock correctly. I don't think you will have a problem doing that if you have some small amount of mechanical aptitude.
I weigh 200, and definitely notice that the psylo tullio is stiffer than the black. I don't know which would win if the psylo had standard dropouts. If the fox talas had been available at the time I would have bought that instead of the black. If you get a 2002 black with travel adjust, getting a 100/120 and riding at 100 is a big mistake. Think of that as a climbing aid only. It's comparable to marz ECC in terms of how it should be used. With the psylo, it's no problem running at any travel setting.
Fons |
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