|   Got 1st ride on Z150 SL today. | TNC
Jan 9, 2004 9:18 PM | | First, the good stuff:
The fork is plush and nicely sensitive--for any fork, air or coil. The fork is rigid...very rigid. The place I rode today is no Moab, but there are lots of rocks. There was no discernable flex. With some of the posts on this site about Z1FR forks, I was able to hit on what seems to be a workable air pressure combination fairly quickly. It seems weird to me, but I wound up with 26psi positive and 145psi negative. Going to 28psi was a hair too harsh. It seemed once you got to a decent positive pressure, it didn't take much either way to be noticeably off from optimum performance. At this setting the fork is extremely supple on small irregularities but doesn't bottom or react harshly to big hits. I'm using the second of the five clicks from wide open on the ECC for rebound. Going to 1 or 3 was too extreme for my preference. The compression and rebound control was on par with my Super T cartridges in my other fork IMO. This fork was a good balance for suspension and ride height characteristics on my '00 Big Hit which gets 6.75" at the rear w/MRP link and Stratos Helix Pro.
Now the bad and/or potentially negative stuff:
The fork did not get over 5.25" of travel at anytime during the ride. I realize the fork is new and some break-in may help. I also have not done a lot of air pressure changes to test other settings, but the fork worked so well at the describe setting. I have to admit that I've seldom ever gotten all the total advertised travel out of the many forks I've owned (even often w/lighter springs). It usually seems it takes a tremendous amount of sag to get most forks to achieve at or close to bottom-out for me. I don't do big drops and seldom smack very large square-edged obstacles--intentionally. I just like to go over rough terrain as fast as possible. If 5.25" ends up being the maximum usable travel, it won't be too bad for a 5lb., 2.4oz. fork of this caliber, but more experimenting is in order. Adjusting the air pressure on this model is a little bit of a pain. A proprietary air valve (actually 3 of them) is a small nuisance. The fact that 2 of the valves are under the ECC lever requires an allen to actually remove the lever to access the valves. There are a couple of potentially lost items under this lever, so you have to pay attention. At least the lever and other leg cap are machined aluminum. This fork has the QR20+ dropouts, but I'm contemplating going to the bolt-on parts instead of these QR parts. This is an unusual amount of monkey motion to get a 20mm axle that one can live with. I really like the 20mm TA on my Firefly--simple, strong. I haven't had any trouble with this QR20 so far, but it seems pretty funky. Heck the thing probably could have been a flat 5lbs. with plain old TA bolt-up.
Well, that's all that comes to mind now. I was pleased with the fork overall. The actual performance was excellent. Some of the mechanical/adjustment issues are quite different and a little bit labor intensive, but nothing too unreasonable. So far, so good. |
| Nice | Tscheezy
Jan 9, 2004 11:11 PM | | Good writeup. Not making full travel is probably a combo of air pressure and (more importantly) oil level. Ride that sucker a week or two and then make sure you change the oil.
Oh yeah, when you get bored, pull the lowers off and slap the lowers from a Z1 on and tell me how it went. Really. ;^P
tscheezy |
| On that QR20... | TNC
Jan 10, 2004 8:33 AM | | Tscheezy, are you trying to get away from the QR20 because of the design, or are you just wanting standard QR dropouts? The QR20 with the bolt-up parts would appear to be fairly trouble-free to live with instead of all the levers and such. As to standard QR dropouts, I have one of those '02 Jr.Ts with standard QRs and installed Super T cartridges. That fork is sweet and works well with several of my "regular" wheels. |
| I own A LOT of regular QR front wheels, no 20mm. | Tscheezy
Jan 10, 2004 11:22 AM | | I'm also a fool for tires and switch tread every few days. Personally I would rather switch wheels depending on the weather than tires. I have Kings mounted up with mud tires for warm/wet days, Hugis mounted up with studded winter tires for cold/dry days, etc etc. I really would not want to buy a new front wheel dedicated to a single fork if I could avoid it. If I were forced to go 20mm, I would want to build a King 20mm hub, and that would start running into some serious $$. If I had no recourse but a 20mm front, I would lose a lot of interest in playing with that fork. If I still decided to try the fork despite not being able to put my Z1 SL lowers on, the bolt style conversion would probably be in my future. This is all months away, if ever. I just thought I'd put a bug in your ear.
Thanks again for the info,
tscheezy |
| rigidity, z150 vs yer manitou DC | SinglePivot
Jan 13, 2004 10:32 AM | | TNC, how would you compare the stiffness of the two forks? I have a DC sitting in the garage. love it but it bobs too much for trail riding.
-Sp |
| Couldn't tell difference. | TNC
Jan 13, 2004 5:09 PM | | In rocks and such I cannot really feel any flex from either fork. I didn't feel any from my Firefly w/TA either. Some of these single crown heavier duty forks are getting darned stiff. Yeah, I think you're gonna feel some bob from any 5" or over fork. This may be where the stable platform for some of these newer forks might be an advantage--haven't ridden one yet myself. |
| my Talas doesn't bob... | SinglePivot
Jan 13, 2004 8:17 PM | | when seated. Can you guess the weight of this bike?
-Sp |
| 34? | TNC
Jan 14, 2004 5:28 PM | | You have a light fork there. It looks like Rhinolite rims, and the hub type will make a big difference. If they are XT hubs, I'm staying with 34. If more of an XC hub, I'll say 33. I can't tell a lot about which WTB? tire that is. If it's a Weirwolf 2.5 Race model, I'll say you might even get to 32. The tires could make a major difference. I can't tell about your stem, bar, post, BB, and other items which can influence it by a pound or so. For grins that's my guess. |
| 34? | SinglePivot
Jan 15, 2004 11:58 PM | | here's the rundown:
-xt shifters/derailluers
-race face cranks, taper bottom bracket
-wheels, $90 rhynolite/deore setup
-profile stem
-azonic risers
-thomson post
-hayes HFX-9
-2.4 kevlar WTB Motoraptors
-ti wtb seat
-mallet c's
I'm guessing its in the sub, but close to, 33lb range right now. its been down to 30.5lbs with eggbeaters, 2.1 fire xc's, semi light xc wheels.
TNC, can you post impressions of all the different forks you have ridden? manitou/fox/marz? I been thinking about getting a 03 z1 FR, just not sure how big of a difference a 20mm setup will make.
thanks,
-Sp |
| Nice, but on a different note. | Dougal
Jan 10, 2004 2:09 AM | | Great review, more information there than we'd get from 1000 magazine articles.
I got my frankenforks sorted out. The DC black comes in at 5.1lb with 135mm of travel, the SC xvert lowers on black legs comes in at 3.96lb. After riding a DC for the last three years I find the single crown a little flexy, not enough to be a problem but I do notice it there.
What I noticed in the changeover is the black lower legs have their seals and bushings placed 15mm higher than the Xvert lowers, which makes for a total of 160mm of travel from a stock set of black lowers!! the black damper shaft will only let me get 140mm max, but the lowers can be modified to take the damper shaft from the Xverts without too much hassle.
So, if you can let me know which type of damper shaft your sherman uses and what length it may just get me onto something (like a 155mm travel DC black).
I'll post up some pics when I get the chance, at the moment I'm playing inside my truck gearbox and my camera doesn't like grease too much.
Dougal.co.nz |
| OK, and maybe... | TNC
Jan 10, 2004 9:28 AM | | I can get the slacker work partner at the shop to go ahead and service his 6" Breakout, so I can measure that damper(?) rod. Of course the part numbers are available on their site, but they don't give any dimensions. What would you do, put the pistons from the Black or X-Vert on the Sherman damper rod to address the 30mm vs. 32mm stanchions, or am I missing something obvious and trying to complicate it? Wait a minute, you're going to use the TPC cart from something already equipped with 30mm pistons, right? And are you still using that X-Vert Carbon part to get the amount of shaft travel you need? Can you briefly state what combo of rebound shaft and lower travel rod/shaft in the spring leg that you're currently using? What mod do you anticipate for using the X-Vert rod in the Black lowers? Remember awhile back when I had my Firefly apart, I did some measuring and there doesn't seem any way for a Firefly travel (or dummy?) rod to work--too short. However, the Firefly and Breakout use the exact same rebound rod (if you're referring to this as the damper rod--just want to make sure our semantics are the same). If you use one of the internal rods from a Sherman, how will you get around the ID issue of 30mm vs. 32mm as far as pistons on these rods go? Or do you know if the rod ODs on these forks are the same in this part of the Manitou line which would allow you to use the Black or X-Vert pistons on those lower rods? Am I making any sense here? I guess I need to know what you're looking at and how, so I know what to look for when I open up the Firefly and Breakout. I'm still interested in this X-Vert DC modification, but you can't get that X-Vert Carbon part like you had anymore. If these Sherman parts will interchange, there may be an easier swap. I also admit our shop has never done any bushing removals or installs--haven't had the need. At that stage, everyone has just tossed the fork and moved on to updated technology--yes, American consumerism at work, LOL! How are you removing or just moving your bushings for proper overlap in these modifications? Though I'm an innocent victim of this American consumerism, I'm a decent mechanic and learn new stuff quickly. When I worked at a motorcycle shop, we actually fixed things rather that just change out new parts on everything--he,he. Some of the bicycle repair/maintenance literature, however, is woefully lacking compared to most motorcycle service manuals. |
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