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MountainBikeReview.com's Forum Archives - Riding & Training Techniques
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Wait a sec, low HR= fat burning?!? (17 posts)
|  Wait a sec, low HR= fat burning?!? | pimpbot
Dec 31, 2003 8:39 PM | | I just read this in a HRM book to accompany my new HRM x-mas present.
I'm a large mamal at 205#, sometimes I get down to 203#. At 5'10" that's a lot of extra bulk I'm carrying around. I'm pretty much stuck at 205# and can't get any lower without resorting to drastic measures, like starving myself or eating no-calorie foods. I would like to get down to 180 ish or so. if I do, I'll climb like a cat on fire.
Any quick and dirty ways of loosing some girth? According to my HRM book, I should be doing 50-70% of max HR for my workouts, but I can tell you right now, I usually hammer all out at around 185 (close to my max) for an hour. I have a resting HR of 51.
I don't take in a ton of calories, as in, I don't eat till I'm full, but I take in enough so I'm not hungry all the frickin time. I also indulge in the occasional soda or candy bar, but I don't make a habbit of 'super sizing' anything, or going any place that offers 'super sizing.' I'd like to keep this pattern in place.
So my question is this: Am I just working our all wrong? Should I concentrate on leisurely rides instead of hammer fests? I gotta say, I love to hammer, but if this doesn't really burn the chub, then I'm barking up the wrong tree, eh?
Am I just too much a slave to the HRM?
What do y'all think? |
| low HR= higher % fat burning! | amex420
Dec 31, 2003 9:22 PM | | Don't let the book misguide you. If you ride at a lower heartrate, your % of fat used is higher, but your overall calories is less. For example, during your hammerfest you ride for an hour. Lets say you burn 800 cals. Now at a lower heartrate, it will take you 1.5-2 hours to burn the same calories. Now if you start going on 2-4 hour rides at a lower heartrate, that is a different story. This is just the tip of the iceberg though. There have been quite a few good posts on this board about it. I'm not really the right person to get into the details though, just a little start in the right direction. Hope this helps some.
Andrew |
| HR... | free-agent
Jan 1, 2004 9:33 AM | | Do long road rides at a pace that makes you breath harder, but could still hold a conversation relatively well. Then throw some intervals (hit the climbs, few sprints, etc.) in the mix during the ride. Slowly increase the length of your rides and amount/intensity of the hammer periods. I begin with 2-3 hour road rodes, and work my way up to 5 hour rides in the winter. Do you live somewhere you can ride outside? Do you have a road bike?
I have also been told to eat very little (or nothing)beforehand, and then consume carbs/protein immediately after. Also, work out in the morning when possible to keep the furnace stoked all day. Keep a journal and record everything!
Keep us posted on how you are doing. |
| HR... | pimpbot
Jan 1, 2004 10:21 AM | | No road bike yet, but I got a nice Giant TCR frame, fork and assorted parts, waiting to save up some cash for the rest of the build.
I do have an indoor trainer and a set of rollers, Perhaps leisurely long sessions on those are the way to go.
At this point, I feel that I have a pretty good aerobic and muscle base, if I could just lighten up, I feel I could kick some booty.
I'm hoping to finish top 50% at Sea Otter. |
| Sea Otter... | free-agent
Jan 1, 2004 11:03 AM | | can't wait. That's a good goal for the Sea Otter.
If you can't ride outside then hit the rollers/trainer with some good music. If you can ride outside just get some slicks or old tires and put some road miles on the mtb until the road bike gets built.
BTW-nice choice for a road bike. They sure are sweet. |
| Its a bunch of BS. | BH
Jan 2, 2004 1:43 PM | | All the generic diet/exercise books in the world tell people that they need to maintain 60-65% their max heart rate to burn fat. This is done for 3 reasons: 1. It reduces the number of way out-of-shape people who suffer from heart attacks and want to blame it on the exercise (as opposed to the poor diet and lifestyle that got them into that condition in the first place) and, 2. It helps beginners stick with a program where they will see some results (many go too easy to see any benefits) and, 3. It isn't so hard that the can still be able to work out every day without over training.
For a serious athlete, the only time you will be training at 60% of your max is on a rest day. It is technically true that at lower heart rates you burn primarily fat. The thing is, at higher heart rates you not only continue to burn the fat but also tap into muscle glycogen for fuel. Both body fat and glycogen come from eating food. Losing weight is all about consuming fewer calories than you burn. By exercising harder, you will burn more. If you are training at 185 with a RHR of 51, it sounds like you are already in exceptional shape. I'm sure that you have already realized that you can't go at 185 every day because your body isn't recovered. I'm also sure that you limit your training to about an hour because this is about the time it takes you run out of fuel. Your body has an essentially unlimited supply of fat to burn but only about 1500 to 2000 calories worth of glycogen.
What I would suggest is 2 to 3 hard days with rest days in between at a HR of 120-130. Slowing yourself down may be hard (it was for me). The rest days will speed recovery. On your hard days, train to improve. Try to go faster and/or longer. Mix it up to make it fun and interesting. Try to train at least 5-6 days a week so you metabolism is always high. Eat a consistent diet of the foods that you discover make you ride faster (complex cards, lean protein). Don't eat the foods that make you slower (high fat foods, sugar). And eat small meals more frequently rather that 2 big meals with nothing in between.
There is no quick and dirty way of losing weight. You just need to be consistent and get into the habit of consistent eating, consistent exercise and a small caloric deficit. Also, you need to come to the realization that this is a plan for life. You need to change the habits that result in your weight of 205 to the habits of an individual that weighs 180.
Good luck, BH |
| All I I can say is... | UpstateSC-rider
Jan 3, 2004 6:16 AM | | I'm the same weight and just a tad shorter with the same goal, 180. I ride hard, keep away from fast foods, but I work afternoons and when I get home at midnight I eat before going to bed. I really have to stop that.
All I can say is Good Luck and I'm with you if that helps any.
Lou. |
| Thanks all | pimpbot
Jan 4, 2004 11:51 PM | | I have been doing a program of 2 good rides a week, a weekend ride of 15-25 hard miles or so and a night ride mid-week of 10 miles or so at a slower pace (cause it's night and all). I also try to bike commute whenever possible, weather permitting. that's only 15 minutes there, 20 back at a more liesurely pace (cause I don't wanna get to work all sweaty).
I have a desk job, but I try to make it a point to get up and walk around when I can and strech.
I guess I should supliment this with some long not-too-hard miles in the trainer, especially on days too rainy to ride to work.
I'm okay with weighing 200+ so long as I get my body fat down and muscle up. Right now I'm hovering at 30% down from 34% a year ago. I just figured that if I can get my total mass down, I'll be able to keep up with the hammerheads I ride with without so much effort.
I guess I need to concentrate on eating smarter and/or less and work out longer and more often.
Thanks for the encouragement, all. |
| just to re-emphasis the benefit of duration . . . | Motivated
Jan 5, 2004 9:38 AM | | If 25 miles is your max distance, that just isn't going to get you the weight reduction you are looking for. You must do at least 40 mile rides once per week and these need to be continuous efforts - absolutely no stopping for breaks, etc. If you can't do pure road rides, then do a mix of on and off road for these. Some of my best training is riding my MTB on the road and trying to keep up with the roadies. Again, you need more duration. In terms of time this long distance ride needs to be 2.5 hours minimum.
Also, try to ride hard on consecutive days then take a day off. This 2 day on, 1 day off cycle professed by MTBDoc absolutely works and sets you up for being primed on race day.
As far as food goes if you are under 30 it probably doesn't matter much, but if you are over 35 then you need to be very diligent about what and when you eat. Eat 2 hours before a ride, then immediately afterwards.
And most important drink lots of water! |
| Agreed...it's simply a matter of calories in vs. calories burned | Danny
Jan 5, 2004 2:58 PM | | When you get older you really have to watch the calories in.
In college, I was trying to gain weight. We had an all you can eat cafeteria. I recall eating a dozen pork chops. I would wash them down with half a gallon of milk. I lifted like crazy. The weight was a very slow climb up.
Now, in my 40's, with actually a lower heartrate and more leg mass, I have to be very careful about what and when I eat. It is especially easy to finish off the kid's plate so the food doesn't go to waste.
Try the tricks to stop from eating more. Drink water when you're stomach feels empty...it is good for you. Substitute proteins for carbs. They last longer and don't send you on the sugar roller coaster which causes more food cravings. Coffee is a great workout stimulator but the caffeine and sugar can mess with your insulin levels...which can have you munching some more. Don't eat after a certain time...say 8pm.
Losing weight...and keeping it off, is slow hard work. |
| Thanks all | Topaz
Jan 6, 2004 9:38 AM | | To me the difference between high HR workouts and low HR workouts is the post ride hunger factor. If you do a longer slow ride and eat a bit during your ride you're less likely to bonk like you do after a high HR workout and therefor you'll be less hungry.
I do short intense rides and long duration rides and neither of them help me lose weight much unless I curb my eating. Losing weight has everything to do with eating and not so much how you workout.
I do a 1.5hr hike 3-4 times a week, 2x 1.5-2.5hr rides during the week, a 85-100mile group road ride on sat. and a 40-50mile mtb ride on sun. and still don't lose weight unless I watch what I eat. Once I figured out how to eat right I lost about 30lbs.
See the other posts on this forum regarding weight loss. Weight loss is all about consuming fewer calories than you burn. |
| re: Wait a sec, low HR= fat burning?!? | Andy C
Jan 8, 2004 3:59 PM | | As with all forums like this there is alot of good info to be had but also alot of mis-information. Your heart-rate monitor book is right, to an extent. Loosing weight is about calories consumed vs calories burned. However it isn't as simple as that. The first problem is that it will take ~30 minutes into your exercise session to actually mobilise your fat reserves and start burning fat. This time will be reduced the fitter you are, so may already be less for you. A good way round this is to do some 'strength' type exercises prior to your workout pushups squats etc, 10 minutes or so of this will get some adrenaline flowing which is one of the triggers for mobilising fat. The second problem is the one your HRM book touches on. Burning fat is very intensity dependent. Below your lactate threshold (essentially the last pace you could maintian essenially indefinitely, in reality obviously you would stop because you got bored) after the first 30 minutes or so of exercise you will burn predominantly fat, i.e. most of the calories you consume will be from stored fat. The further you go above your lactate threshold towards maximum you reduce the proportion of calories consumed through burning fat. Now, up to a point this is okay because you are working harder so consuming more calories so overall even though the %fat burn is down the total fat burn is up. However, you as you increase the intensity further above ~65-70% (hard to say exactly without having you in the lab) of your range the fall off in fat burning becomes very rapid until you are supplying almost all of your energy through CHO breakdown. So, during your 1 hour ride at 185 bpm you are probably burning almost no fat at all. You are simply using up blood glucose and muscle glycogen. You will replenish these when you next eat and you will have not lost any fat mass or weight.
Obviously for your training purposes (and for fun) you need those hard rides, but if you want to loose some fat mass you need to include some long low paced sessions.
Hope this helps some, feel free to give me a shout if you want any more info.
Regards
Andy.
Andy Cathcart PhD. BSc.
School of Sport and Exercise Sciences
University of Leeds
&
Centre for Rehabilitation Engineering
University of Glasgow. |
| re: Wait a sec, low HR= fat burning?!? | Topaz
Jan 8, 2004 5:57 PM | | But just because he's not burning much fat during his 1hr intense ride doesn't mean that he wont start burning fat later in the day assuming the keeps an overall calorie deficit for the day.
Regardless of workout you can't lose weight unless you have a calorie deficit or cut off a limb. |
| re: Wait a sec, low HR= fat burning?!? | Andy C
Jan 9, 2004 1:55 AM | | Yes it does, unless he doesn't eat anything for the rest of the day following the ride. Which will make him feel terrible. As some as he eats something with CHO in it his body will begin to replenish the glucose and glycogen stires depleted during the exercise. Then for the remainder of the day his body will preferentially burn that sugar which he has replenished. You MUST actively do exercise which will burn fat, if you do not you WILL NOT burn any fat. Your body will never preferentially burn fat unless you force it to. |
| re: Wait a sec, low HR= fat burning?!? | Topaz
Jan 9, 2004 5:28 PM | | You MUST actively do exercise which will burn fat, if you do not you WILL NOT burn any fat. Your body will never preferentially burn fat unless you force it to.
Then how does someone lose 40lbs without ever exercising? I have friends who've lost lots of weight just through calorie deficit. |
| re: Wait a sec, low HR= fat burning?!? | Andy C
Jan 10, 2004 10:10 AM | | No one can loose 40lbs wihout exercising, then again no one can live without exercising. Kind of difficult not goning to the toilet not rolling over in your bed etc. If you starve yourself you will have insufficient blood sugar, you will feel like sh1t but you will start burning fat and protein because you have no other substrate to rely on. So if you exercise like the original poster and then starve yourself for the remainder of the day (like I said, had you bothered to read my posts) then you will burn fat during the tasks of living post ride. However, he still won't have burned any fat off during the ride. If ont he other hand he doesn't want to make himself ill he will eat after the ride. In that scenario he will have burned almost no fat during the ride and almost no fat during the remainder of the day. Remember that even if you burn 300g of CHO during exercise and then only consume 150g of CHO post exercise that will be sufficient CHO to see you through the remainder of the day leaving you with a calorific deficit but no fat burned.
To loose weight you either do exercise of a sufficiently low intensity and long duration to promote fat burning or you starve yourself and maintain your blood sugar at dangerously low levels putting your health at risk, it's your choice. |
| re: Wait a sec, low HR= fat burning?!? | Topaz
Jan 12, 2004 4:42 PM | | A 250-500cal/day deficit isn't exactly starving yourself nor will it cause a dangerously low blood sugar level. But it will result in a 0.5-1.0lb of weight loss per week.
Like I said earlier I do plenty of low intensity and long duration exercise each week but I don't lose weight unless I watch what I eat and maintain a calorie deficit. Weight loss has more to do with what you eat than how you exercise. |
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