|   My LT results...Someone want to lend a hand??? | Kaparzo
Jan 12, 2004 10:46 AM | | I did the road test for LT described in Friels mountain bike bible (30 min threshold test). My avg. heart rate was 182. Someone want to give me a feeling of what this means exactly. I know how it will factor into the rest of my training but I was thinking more of a comparison to ohther and stuff like that. Any help would be greatly appreciated. |
| Unfortunately... | Dwayne Barry
Jan 12, 2004 11:01 AM | | it's pretty much irrelevant to compare yourself to others using heart rate. That number is only good for determining your own training zones, and it's not even ideal for that.
Now if you only had a power meter and gave us the watts you could put out for 30 minutes (and your body weight) that would pretty much tell most of the story as far as how you stack up compared to other riders. |
| Hey DB... | free-agent
Jan 12, 2004 12:46 PM | | Now if you only had a power meter and gave us the watts you could put out for 30 minutes (and your body weight) that would pretty much tell most of the story as far as how you stack up compared to other riders.
How would you do the test? Ride as hard as you can for 30 minutes and find out the average watts? Where could I go to compare the results?
thanks man |
| You need a power measuring device... | Dwayne Barry
Jan 13, 2004 6:06 AM | | such as a Powertap (built into the rear hub) or an SRM (built into the crank). I've never heard of anyone using one on a mountain bike, I get the impression the powertap wouldn't take the abuse. Over at cyclingpeakssoftware.com there are charts to compare different power outputs over different time periods to see how you stack up. This stuff is geared toward road riders due to the technology largely (or exclusively?) being useful for road riding. |
| Unfortunately... | mtcali
Jan 12, 2004 5:53 PM | | Hi Dwayne.......you said using training zones based on your LT are 'not ideal'
Is there another method for determing training zones that you have had success with? I have used the 'general' zones based on MHR but know I need to work to determine training zones that are more tailored to my own capacities.
Thanks........Mike |
| What I meant... | Dwayne Barry
Jan 13, 2004 6:09 AM | | is training based on HR is not ideal because HR can vary for a number of reasons not related to your power output (which is what really matters). HR can be elevated or depressed at the same power output due to factors such as temperature or body position or adrenaline, etc.
Training based around your LT is fine, but estimating LT based on HR rather than power output is less than ideal. |
| I kind of figured that, but unfortunatley... | Kaparzo
Jan 13, 2004 4:02 AM | | I kind of guessed using power was the way to go because it is corralates better to your actual fitness level. Unfortunatley, I do not have the dough for the $800 power tap. Maybe in the future. I think for now it is fine to use LT training zones as those are better than MHR training zones anyway. |
| If you can't afford the powertap, | free-agent
Jan 13, 2004 11:05 AM | | do your training using rear wheel speed as your indicator. It's what I used for last season and saw some great results-much better than HR in my opinion. Do you have a trainer? If so, do a search on this board for posts by the "mtbdoc" for set up and ideas. It's easy, very cheap, and works pretty darn well.
Feel free to ask more questions if you have them. |
| re: My LT results...Someone want to lend a hand??? | AndrewMcD
Jan 13, 2004 11:42 AM | | As noted in the responses above, training on heartrate zones based on a single LT test is less than optimal...........but, you work with what you've got. Friel's HR zone isn't a bad approach. I too used a 30 minute test to determine LT and found that as long as I pay attention to my body then the resulting HR zones are useable. What I mean by "pay attention to my body" is to notice when I'm tired or stressed and realize that the HR zones are going to be way off the mark. For me, a sure sign of needing some rest is when I simply cannot elevate my heart rate to the training zone I intend to be in without extraordinary effort. When that happens I'm teaching myself to stifle the urge to try harder and replace it with some rest that will ensure quality training in the future. Yes, power is the superior training technique, Friel says that as well, but if all you've got is a heart rate monitor (and they are relatively inexpensive compared to a power tap) then use it. You'll get a better result than NOT using it. |
| re: suppressed HR -- what does it mean? | millennium
Jan 13, 2004 1:25 PM | | AndrewMcD said:
"For me, a sure sign of needing some rest is when I simply cannot elevate my heart rate to the training zone I intend to be in without extraordinary effort."
IMO, a suppressed HR is often misunderstood--it does not always mean you should stop/minimize your workout and rest.
HR is used as a measure of the intensity level of your workout, but when your HR seems noticeably low for the amount of effort you feel as though you are exerting, it's time to throw HR out the window. At that point, you cannot be sure what is causing your HR to be low--it could be suppressed because of temperature conditions, hydration, your stress level, general conditions, your overall state of rest/recovery, adreneline, illness, depression, etc, etc. You might be able to narrow it down fairly well, but you cannot be sure.
IMO, the important point is that in many of these cases when your HR is down, it is preferable to continue the workout. When you continue, you simply must realize that your HR is "off" and that you need to gauge your intensity level by something else, such as your "perceived exersion" or power output or speed (in some cases) or distance (in some cases). So, instead of trying to get your HR up, you will ask yourself how much am I exerting myself? how does this output level feel? You HR might be low, but your workload/intensity could be (and often is) the same as usual.
Even if you decide that the cause of your suppressed HR is that you are not fully recovered from the prior day's workout, this does NOT necessarily mean that it would be best to stop/minimize the workout and rest. If you're able to hit/hold your desired intensity (focus on intensity, not HR), then you probably should continue the workout (followed LATER with some rest). Why? Because, in order to achieve adaptations that lead to improvements in your performance, you MUST temporarily overreach (i.e. you must feel tired, go beyond your comfort level, etc). Overreaching (followed by rest) is necessary to improve. Obviously, you must be careful because too much short-term overreaching can leading to long-term overtraining, but you cannot forget that overreaching leads to improvements. It's a balancing act.
From several recent posts here and elsewhere, it seems to me that the idea of overtraining has become such a confused and popularized topic, that many people are cutting short workouts that, if the workout were continued (followed later with some rest), might have resulted in some of their best adaptations/improvements. |
| re: suppressed HR -- what does it mean? | AndrewMcD
Jan 14, 2004 6:11 AM | | I suppose it might have been usefull to put my comments in the context that I'm 53 years old and guilty of past overtraining. In fact I find that overtraining is the biggest challenge to my training efforts. I've been using the HR monitor for a number of years, to the point that I can usually tell what my HR is without looking at the monitor because I've become so accustomed to relating level of effort to my HR. I'm also the sort of personality that will keep pushing regardless of how I feel. The HR monitor provides data that I look at and evaluate and say to myself........"Yeah, you feel like crap and your HR is down. In the past this means you need rest so give it a rest." That is how it works for me. I'm striving for greater quality in my workouts. If I continue workouts when the body is tired then recovery simply takes too long. |
| Hey free-agent want to give more info on powertap alternative??? | Kaparzo
Jan 14, 2004 8:19 AM | | |
| Here ya go... | free-agent
Jan 14, 2004 9:50 AM | | FYI-I used this in conjunction with the HR monitor.
First, you need a trainer and rear wheel computer, and probably a book on power training (such as Dave Morris/ book). The wireless computers won't work so you need to get a rear wheel mount (basically just a bar mount with a longer wire). Next, you need to keep everything else constant (resistance on trainer, air pressure). Then, you use rear wheel speed as your "power indicator." When doing your intervals you find the highest rear wheel speed you can maintain for the entire interval. For example, if you are doing 2 minute intervals, find the highest wheel speed you can maintain for the entire 2 minutes, and maintain it for the 2 minutes. It takes some trial and error (how much resistance to use, how much tire pressure to use, what gears to use, etc.) to find the highest power output you can do, but it is highly effective once you get it dialed in. Of course, you never know how much power you are putting out, just that you have a number to watch to ensure you are not slacking. It is simply a more objective way to train. Keep track of everything in a training log so you can analyze your progress. I'll try to find some of mtbdoc's posts because he explains it better than me.
Feel free to ask any more questions if this is unclear. |
| A link... | free-agent
Jan 14, 2004 9:58 AM | | The MTBDOC "Power Training Question" 9/3/03 3:09pm
I would also either:
A. Do a search on this board using "mtbdoc" as your keyword, and read everything he has written, or..
B. Try to page the person (I forgot who it was) on this board that has created a cut and paste document of everything the mtbdoc has posted and read it.
Also, keep asking question because you wil achieve results if you are dedicated, and look forward to pain. I went from a mid pack Sport racer two years ago, to the #3 Sport class racer in the state last year (couple of points out of first!). Now I'm stepping up to expert for next year. It's a lot of work, and did I mention painful?
Good luck. |
| |
