|   Coolest thing : A LATEX BOMB just went off in my face! | Jan_Gerrit
Jan 17, 2002 2:31 PM | | After a night training through the cold and rain, I decided I wanted to give it one more go to try inflate a CX tire (Michelin MUD). The tape job was already done, but the tire would take air earlier today.
I folded a piece op plastic paper, and put that under the valve, to direct the air away from the bead, I figured. An extra bit of innertube material functioned as an o-ring.
So off it was to the gas station, which is like a 1 minute jog from my home.
With soap, the tire inflated instantly, so I put the latex mixture in. The tire took air...there was a very silent moment, too silent...
A mayor BANG, and I heard some echos from FAR away. The wheel had exploded in my left hand. My CHEAP (lucky shot) wind jacket was covered in goo. My left had still worked, but hurt - BAD. I took the plastic bag and my stuf laying around, and took a hike, not waiting for the gas station's personel to check out who had dug up an WW2 bomb.
Okay, so my left hand gets number and number, I wash off the goo and soap. The little finger is getting blue and thick now, but luckily no pain or internat damage, more like a bruise. Will be a painful commute tomorrow, my commuter bike it quite a quite agressive ride.
So what do I notice : my wheel (SRAM 5.0 with Rigida Chrina rim, luckily the cheapest I own), it tacoed, obviously beyond repair, I now how tricky those Chrina's are to tru.
The Michelin was off the rim after the explosion, but undamaged.
The compressor states that it delivers max. 4.0 bar, which is a decent pressure for a 30mm tire.
WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED??
Is this what people experience, tires blowing off? Did this happen because the tape job I did? It's one layer of normal 15mm electical stretch tape, and one layer of 19mm white waterprooffabric tape, wuite thick. Not much room was left for the bead to clinch the rim, especially near the valve, where I have do the magic trick with the plastic.
Does anyone have any clou where I fukked up?
I still intend to get that darn 700c latex thing to work, though this was a very hurtful (and expensive) setback. Replacing the rim and relacing it will cost me some 50 Euro's I'd rather have spent on a pair of Stan's rimstrip miracles.
Hope you'll have some good tips for me to prevent me tacoeing my priceless other wheels, and perhaps to help other not to make the same error, better to learn from my mitakes then find out yourself, right?
Thanks in advance!
Jan Gerrit |
| That sounds a bit scary, hope the hand isn't too pained (nm) | wfl3
Jan 17, 2002 2:46 PM | | . |
| Similar Experience (Not as painful) | JD
Jan 17, 2002 3:54 PM | | Jan,
Last time I did the Stan's thing (after re-building my wheel due to a worn out hub) I was pumping up the tire (with a floor pump, not a compressor). I pumped it up to 50 psi, and the next thing I knew BOOM! The Valve blew right through the inner part of the rim! Anyway, long story short, it was wedged in there soooo tight I couldn't pull it out either way, and had to drill out the valve stem.
But in the end it's all worth it. I've been 3 months with liquid latex and zero flats and zero problems on the trail.
-Jonas |
| Similar Experience (Not as painful) | Jan_Gerrit
Jan 17, 2002 4:21 PM | | I've had a valve that devolopped a leak due to working it's way into the rim. I cut small pieces away from it before I was able to hammer it out the same way it had went in.
I'm just affraid of more public explosions, makes me look so silly you see. And wrecking wheels while experimenting, not even with riding itself, doesn't give me much pleasure.
Please, anyone tell me what I did wrong? I'll never put as much air in a latex tire, I know that much! Just kept the airflow going, figuring 4 bar is acceptable. Maybe it gives more than that... |
| Maybe reason for schrader. | TNC
Jan 17, 2002 8:48 PM | | I know it's not as light as presta, but they will not work their way into the valve hole. The motorcycle tube, fully threaded models work great when you grind them down to the size you need. |
| With Stan's system........... | Tim in WI
Jan 17, 2002 5:06 PM | | I have had similar problems, and it is the only reason I do not use Stan's system.
My setup was a set of Sun DS1XC rims with Ringle hubs built by Bianchi4me. Great wheelset, nothing weird. Tires were Panaracer Fire XC Pro Kevlar.
I bought the Stan Kit for $25, so I used all his parts and his directions.
First attempt, I didnt put enough stuff on the bead, so they didnt hold air and were flat in 5 mins.
Second Attempt: Coat the bead liberally with latex, they seal up fine. They hold the initial 20 PSI. I fill them with 55 PSI about 3 mins later. (55PSI is my normal ride pressure, I weigh 230) They appear allright, so I hang the wheel from the truing stand in my shop. A customer walks in, so I go to help him. About 3 mins later, loud explosion. I walk back to find rim and tire completely seperated, but neither is destroyed. Wheel needs minor truing. Latex ALL OVER THE FREAKING PLACE!
Third attempt: This time I try the front wheel. Same setup as 2nd attempt on rear wheel. This time it explodes in my hand. The tire flys against the wall, and latex is all over me, and the ceiling. My hand hurts a lot.
I give up. I have never ridden a Stan's wheel off-road because I cant even get them to work in the shop. Its the reason I dont use the system, and I dont know why it did that because I followed his directions to a T.
So I dont know why this happens to only a few of us. But it did.
NKT |
| With Stan's system........... | fonseca
Jan 17, 2002 5:39 PM | | LOL! Thanks for the laugh guys...I am getting funny looks due to my fit of laughter.
I have not been successful yet either. I can easily inflate the tire, and seal it up, but within days it will be flat. I have checked everything a dozen times, completely removed tape and started from scratch, and tried different tires/wheels. The one time I used it offroad my rear tire became unseated during a skid. It was at 50psi. Scary. I guess I will live with tubes and patches for a while longer. |
| Its the bead to rim fit that's doing it... | DeeEight
Jan 18, 2002 10:24 AM | | a poor fitting tire bead (and we ALL know, or should if we've used multiple tire models/brands that the fit varies, some tires need pry bars to get onto a particular rim, some go on with finger pressure) will blow off quite easily. When 55psi of pressure blows out of a MTB
tire all at once its rather explosive in nature. Just be thankful the mixture is non-flammable or else you could get a nice flash fire in your hand also.
Ever left a bike sitting in the sun for awhile with all black tires? Then gone and ridden it and 5 mins later you hear a thumping noise, look down and see the sidewall bulging away from the rim and a bubble forming in the tube as it expands away from the rim and then explodes? |
| re: Coolest thing : A LATEX BOMB just went off in my face! | calgracer
Jan 17, 2002 5:42 PM | | In the latest velonews leonard zinn reviews stan's system and makes note of the difficulty he had with the tires when the beads were still wet and slick with the soap. It would seem to make sense that one should wait awhile before bringing the tire to full pressure. Zinn also noted that he had given up trying a 700c tire after several misadventures with the tire blowing off of the rims. He also indicates that UST rims seemed to be more suitable for stan's system because of the lip on the rim that helps stop the tire from separating from the rim. happy trails |
| re: Coolest thing : A LATEX BOMB just went off in my face! | Jan_Gerrit
Jan 17, 2002 11:09 PM | | That's what I figured, next time I'll start with something like 2 bar. will make the explosion more comtrolled, LOL.
NO really, the way the tire flew off, that won't happen with dried up latex, at least not so easily.
With 700c, the tire theoretically has more play to work it's way off the rim. Stll, mtc is having good luck with IRC Noto 29" tires, those are said to be a good tight fit.
My 700c, the Michelin Mud, has a VERY suptle bead, I may try a steel beaded Hutchinson next time, and with lower pressure. Will just stop inflating the moment it has taken air.
I now feel sorry for trying to bring my fast Fred 2.35" up to 4 bar so soon, could have ruined a Deore wheel with CX_Ray spokes (don't ask). I held air perfectly overnight, after some initial seal breaks and holes in the beads opening. Hung the wheels from the ceiling horizontally for some times, each side. I lost very little latex, probably less than 5g, during the sealing process.
It says 2.0 bar min., 4.5 bar max. I don't think anyone will want to use that max 4.5 bar, 3 already feels really hard. |
| Take Stan to Court!!! | SUE STAN!
Jan 17, 2002 11:22 PM | | Its the American way. |
| Take Stan to Court!!! | Jan_Gerrit
Jan 18, 2002 3:35 AM | | Perhaps the initial pressure he advises is a tad high yes, but I won´t sue the man for it, especially since I wanted to try it by myself without his kit. Out of reasons of impatience and finance. I will however buy quite a few of those new rimstrips after some good reviews, seems to make life easier and safer. That´s a magic combination.
I´m now also curious when Nino´s friends are finally going to market their version, and how much it will differ from Stan´s.
Can anyone draw a cross-section picture of how Stan´s strip works? I won´t buy it before I know what it looks like and how it works. |
| GO UST...NO PROBLEMS OR BOMBS TO GO OFF!...NM | DIRT BOY
Jan 18, 2002 4:39 AM | | |
| Latex holds air better - in the long run :-) | Jan_Gerrit
Jan 18, 2002 6:27 AM | | Plus I dislike the idea of buying new wheels, which may only fit a certain amount of thick&heavy tires. To me, UST had no coolness factor whatsoever.
I will agree that it´s better in terms of tires blowing off in your face, but even thát has it´s charme... |
| Well since you need a new rim anyways...get a UST rim... | DeeEight
Jan 18, 2002 10:18 AM | | if you can and presto! |
| Name me ONE 700c UST rim... nm | Jan_Gerrit
Jan 19, 2002 3:23 AM | | |
| Trouble is Jan's in europe... | DeeEight
Jan 18, 2002 10:17 AM | | though then again, Stan's might not pass any EU safety standards either so it might not even be legal for sale there.
In any case, you'd have to prove negligence or a defective design on stan's part to sue really. Does he fail to provide warnings about the tire blowing off in his website, sales literature, etc? That would be a case of negligence.
I know almost every bike mag editor using the thing has been warning about the tires exploding off the rim, wisely so lest the magazine get sued by the parents of a teenager who follows the instructions and blows off a finger. |
| Man we though you left. | mtc
Jan 18, 2002 1:54 PM | | or at least shut up. |
| sue yourself | Dido
Jan 20, 2002 3:23 PM | | it is the american way |
| I don't think 'cross tires work, return Stans | dcm311
Jan 18, 2002 8:21 AM | | I tried to do the same thing with my 'cross bike (Specialized Tri-Cross (new version) on to Velocity Aeroheads) and the tire kept blowing off. When I finally got it to work, I was just riding down the street and took a mellow corner and the tire blew off. Resulted in a few flat spots and a partially torn sidewall. I shortly returned the kit (he does take returns, even when half the latex is gone). |
| Funny but scary | pedalAZ
Jan 18, 2002 9:42 AM | | Jan, that does sound like a pretty funny picture, especially you running from the scene of the crime!
On the serious side, I hope you were wearing eye protection. Stan says there is some nasty stuff in the mix that would damage your eyes. I inflated my tires while wearing a full coverage work goggle that cost me less than 2 bucks. My tires didn't blow up, but after your experience, I'm glad I followed Stan's advice.
I only inflated to about 30 lbs, did the wheel manipulation to seal the leaks, and only aired up to riding pressure later on. I also hosed off the excess soap as soon as the leaks stopped. I wonder how much the slick soap on the bead may work against getting a good sticky hold on the rim. |
| Funny but scary | Jan_Gerrit
Jan 18, 2002 2:16 PM | | Because of the 11 sept stuff (shipping overseas) I started out with mold builder and my own tape. The moldbuilder smells really explosive by itself, should wear glasses really, will think of it next time.
I just inflated a Hutchinson 30mm tire on a Open Pro (damn eyelits). I seems to hold air pretty good, it's hanging from the ceiling horizontally, will flip it over now. |
| Now That's why I GLUED my beads on... | DeeEight
Jan 18, 2002 10:13 AM | | when I did the ol' DIY tubeless bit a couple years ago! |
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