|   Disapointment with Stan's... | CODMAN
Mar 22, 2002 12:29 PM | | Hi guys,
after finally fixing my problems with Stan's system (tape+latex), I've run into another which I found rather disapointing!
I was inflating my second Minautor 380 on my wheelset. Got it to inflate using Co2 cartridge, then inflated it a bit more to 50 psi with a hand pump (to get some extra pressure in there before swishing around the liquid).
When I hit 50psi, a leak sprang up! And not the usual dribble of liquid, but rather a real leak! Could easily hear and see the little mist of air coming out! Especially when I swished liquid onto it to get it to block! But it didn't! It just blew out the liquid like a little geiser and kept on spurting air! I kept swishing liquid, but to no avail! Tire went flat in a few minutes and the liquid failed to block this tiny hole!
Now the hole wasn't big (even though quite a bit of air was spurting through). I even took off the tire and examined it from the inside and couldn't find a hole!! What I did find though is a very fine cut on the outside rubber (which by the way is very thin on a Minotaur 380), and a balding spot on the inside where I could see the casing fibres.
What I found disapointing is that Stan's didn't even come near blocking this hole, which was very small (the cut is less than 1 mm long). I figure it's because of the very thin ultra lite tires I'm using!!
Has anybody else experienced similar problems with ultra light tires, such as schwalbe, specialized, Kenda?
Second item of the day. I've bought myself a small air tank (5 gallons) to do stans without wasting co2 cartridges. I get the tank up to 90 psi, but there is still not enough air getting into the tire? My Co2 cartridge is giving plenty enough to inflate it!
What do you guys figure the problem is? Not enough pressure? Not enough volume? Have you guys had similar problems with air tanks?? How did you fix it?
Any input or advice on my problems would be most appreciated!
Thanks guys!
CODDERS |
| Codpiece, old boy, it's obvious . . . | pedalAZ
Mar 22, 2002 12:35 PM | | According to widely known scientific facts I just made up, the latex won't "set" with CO2.
According to a couple of trail mates I DO trust (not making this part up), CO2 is notorious for losing pressure anyway, and best used only as an emergency trail remedy.
This ought to attract a flame or 2! |
| Codpiece............... | Mike T.
Mar 22, 2002 12:50 PM | | ....being a scientist should know that latex needs O² to help it harden and not CO². The carbon provides lubrication to allow the O² in the compound to leak out. Stick to fish, Codders!! I can't wait for his reply! :o)
Yes why do CO² filled tires deflate faster than O² filled ones? All that expensive gas wasted. |
| I think you guys missed... | CODMAN
Mar 22, 2002 5:10 PM | | the part about the hole!! That's kinda the obvious reason all the air is coming out! Really! Now I'm not a chemist, But I've succede in the past using Co2! So I don't think your "entertaining" theories are the cause guys!! :0))
Basically, I put a patch on it from the inside! That should fix the bugger! But what I'm worried about is on the trail!
I have a feeling the bald spot that burst didn't have enough rubber (it was on the sidewall) for the sealant to catch. Maybe the latex doesn't kling to the kevlar casing??
Anyways, thanks guys for trying to help! I'll let you know if the patch works!
Luego!
CODPIECE!! Bwaahaahaa! |
| CO2 & Patching Tires | The Squeaky Wheel
Mar 22, 2002 5:41 PM | | Codman,
since you've supplied me with much useful Magura advice, I hope I can return the favor.....
Been using CO2 with my Stan's for a month without any problems on 4 different tires.
When I first starting using the system I discovered a few small sidewall gashes which I didn't detect with tubes. Like your situation, they wouldn't seal with latex and would burst open at higher pressures. I contacted Stan who gave me the following tips on how to seal gashes properly for use with tubeless systems. This works for both UST & standard tires:
1- Get some Brake cleaner from an auto store. Spray on a paper towel and wipe it on the inside of the tire where you plan on applying the patch. Then blow the area for 30s with a blow dryer on hot.
2- Repeat
3- Apply the rubber cement from the patch kit to the exposed area and again blow with hair dryer
4- Apply patch
I have successfully fixed 3 gashes with this technique.
After the inital application of latex, I have found that newly incurred tears/holes do seal quite well. It was just the old holes that were present before the initial latex application which gave me problems.
Squeak (mcm#1211) |
| Thanks for the advice Squeeky! | CODMAN
Mar 22, 2002 7:01 PM | | I've patched up the tire, but now can't get it to inflate! :0((
I'm using a Minotaur 380 which is a tricky tire to do. But for some reason, it inflated first shot 2x in a row this morning (when I had the hole), but since I've taken it off to fix the patch, I've gone through 5 Co2 cartridges trying to inflate!! Now I'm getting pissed O... :0)) I think I'll let it rest and give it another go tomorrow!! maybe take off the tire again and it back on.
Luego!
CODMAN MCM#101 |
| Beware the dreaded Minotaur. Ask Cloxxki! | pedalAZ
Mar 22, 2002 9:39 PM | | |
| Not to "nitt-pick," BUT... | Mr. Wizard
Mar 22, 2002 5:22 PM | | Most "Co2" cartridges like "Big Air" are NOT Co2, but rather BUTANE (watch those open flames)!!
If you're using over-the-counter "BB" type cartridges, you're ok.
Sorry guys,
Mr. Wizard |
| Leave the tank running for a while... | Adam
Mar 22, 2002 1:17 PM | | it should automatically shut off. Now try airing up your tires. 90lbs is enough. |
| Sorry for being dense... | CODMAN
Mar 22, 2002 5:12 PM | | but I didn,t quite grasp what you are trying to explain about the tank! Could you expand on that please? Thanks dude!
CODMAN |
| he said air tank not compressor....nm | bogart
Mar 23, 2002 6:38 AM | | ,, |
| Here's what I did... | Wierzyman
Mar 22, 2002 2:23 PM | | On a brand new Hutchinson Python Air Light, I was able to pump it up with a floor pump as long as the wheel is vertical ( in fork with bike upside down). Pumped up to 50 and there was a mini geyser of latex coming out a tiny pinhole where the threads were showing, similar to your situation. I let the pressure down to about 20 psi and did the slow rotate on side making sure that the hole was getting gopped from the inside really good. then i began to gradually increase the pressure in 5lb increments at 2 to 3 minute intervals. This worked. Imagine this scenario. If your a tring to repair a leak on a pipe in your kitchen, the first thing you do is shut of the pressure. Then you turn on the water pressure slowly. If it begins to leak, back off, reseal try again with the plumber seal. You will NOT get the plumber seal in if there is 20 lbs of water pressure trying to push out the plug. Same with the latex. A little bit of pressure to push the latex into the hole and allow it to set WITHOUT excessive pressure to send the latex spraying out. Hope this helps. I haven't personally used CO2 so can't comment on it preventing the latex from curing. But a thought on that is that once the latex seeps out it hits plain old air it should cure then (kind of like a scab), but once again, this is ONLY if there isn't excessive pressure pushing through a large hole. Flame away! |
| Try brushing latex onto the hole before mounting it. nm | Adam
Mar 22, 2002 3:10 PM | | |
| Excessive pressure wrecks havoc on Stans. I read in a MTBA mag that you should use 60lbs of pressure on tubeless tires to set the bead. So, since it was in print, I firgured that that must apply to Stans too. NOT, the 60lbs made the tape curl up on the inside and leak in addition to small leaks spewing latex before it could set. Using the same tire and rim at 40lbs I had no problems with Stans. Just don't inflate to more than 45-50 or so. Not sure what the upper limit is.
MH | MH
Mar 22, 2002 5:38 PM | | approved |
| Dude, try hitting the return key and get OUT of the subject... | DeeEight
Mar 22, 2002 6:34 PM | | line before during a tirade about stan's ok. |
| There is................... | Mike T.
Mar 22, 2002 8:23 PM | | .....an occasional glitch with mtbr that allows this to happen. It happened to me two weeks ago and it certainly wasn't because I typed my whole story on the Topic line.
Gregg @ mtbr is aware of the trouble and their Techies are having problems find in the cause. |
| Bingo! Same experience here | MH
Mar 22, 2002 5:39 PM | | Excessive pressure wrecks havoc on Stans. I read in a MTBA mag that you should use 60lbs of pressure on tubeless tires to set the bead. So, since it was in print, I firgured that that must apply to Stans too. NOT, the 60lbs made the tape curl up on the inside and leak in addition to small leaks spewing latex before it could set. Using the same tire and rim at 40lbs I had no problems with Stans. Just don't inflate to more than 45-50 or so. Not sure what the upper limit is.
MH |
| I noticed this too. | TNC
Mar 22, 2002 5:47 PM | | Like you say, about 20 psi seems to be the magic number. Even on UST tires, you can pull out a good sized thorn and let the air go down to about 20 psi--making sure not to put the hole on the bottom so all of your latex runs out. Then you slosh the tire around a little and air it back up. |
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