|
MountainBikeReview.com's Forum Archives - Save some Weight
|
|
O.K. guys, I need your help choosing a new Stan's setup!! (15 posts)
|  O.K. guys, I need your help choosing a new Stan's setup!! | CODMAN
Mar 24, 2002 7:31 AM | | Firstly, sorry for carrying on again about Stan's. I know this subject has been overdone in the forum. But I need some advice and help and this is the best place to get it: from fellow users!!
O.K., I've given up on using Stan's with my minautor 380s after having many problems and reading the string that Cloxxi wrote! Even though I love the weight of them, I need a tire that is much easier to set up with Stan's! I can't afford to be at the races, a few hours before the start, unable to get my tires to inflate!! By the way, I do multi-day stage races where we often need to change tires from one day to the next! So as you can see, I need a new tire that is light, and inflates well using the notubes system! And I need your help/ feed back and suggestions for tires to choose from!
Here is my criteria for selection of a knobby tire:
1- It needs to be relatively easy to inflate using Stan's (the minautor obviously isn't!). So I guess that means a relatively tight fitting tire.
2- It needs to be at least as grippy as the Minautor and at least 1.9" (this isn't hard to find because the Minautor is in my oppinion about half way between a semi-slick and a knobby).
3- It needs to be as light as possible: I'd like sub 450g if possible.
4- It has to last more than 100km: I'm not asking for long wearing tires here (like 2000km), but I dont want tires that loose half their knobs or get cuts in them after 1 30km training ride!!
O.K. guys, here are my preliminary choices from what I've found on MTB review, Internet, and magazines. I'd like your feedback as to how well these tires work with Stan's (regarding my criterions). I'd also like any further suggestions you guys have that would fit my needs!
1- Continental Twister supersonic: 370g (I'm not sure about these because a friend of mine was using last year's 340g version and the tires were very prone to tearing from rocks)
2- Kenda Klimax lite: 345g
3- Schwalbe skinny Jimmy: 435g
Any others I'm overlooking?
Thanks in advance to everyone! When I need info like this, I sure am glad to be part of the MTB review community!
Luego!
CODMAN |
| What about................. | Mike T.
Mar 24, 2002 8:53 AM | | .....something with a little more beef - like 460g Conti Twisters? After all you're not an extralegere guy are you? I think that's what I'm gonna go with for the 2002 season. |
| Yup, that's their pro model I think... | CODMAN
Mar 24, 2002 9:38 AM | | I was forgetting about their heavier models, although they are slightly over the mark of what I was shooting for! Could be a good alternative! Thanks Mikey! I wonder how well they work with Stan's setup?
Luego!
CODDERS |
| Get over the weight thing (long) | Cloxxki
Mar 24, 2002 10:47 AM | | Oops, not a smart thing to say here!
Sometimes adding a few grams to your tires to make them wider or change the tread pattern will make you so much faster that the weight is of less concern...
I know my rave about the Schwalbe Fa(s)t Fred 2.35" has been long, but I can't help myself.
Some luck will offer you a 495g tire with 54-57mm actual width.
Grip is better than the Minotaurs, although I like those a lot for grassy races. Fats roll slower only compared to 2.0" Fast Freds and maybe Twister Supersonics. Comfort? 52mm actual height should say it all.
The only terrain they don't seems to shine in is slippery twisty stuff. But only real mud tires such as the Schalbe Black Shark Mud 1.5" excel at that.
The fat is really an incredible overall performing tire, that will make you fly over terrain you wouldn't bother to even TRY the 2.0" version. I contect comparing it to the 2.0", saying it's just a phatter version of it, so with a heavier feel. The Fats need to be experienced to really understand what I mean.
Example : I not ride up over the grass surfce that is directly next to a steep staircase up a artificial hill. even with imperfect conditions, and the rear tire over it's ideal pressure.
I'm 83kg, 39" inseam, and I ride up the steepest climb you could imagin. Riding that slope down is not a formality, let alone when you bail out and have to turn oyur biek around and go back down.
That tells you more about my rear tire than about my riding. You should see people's faces when I just attack that climb! I do it in 22/25, but I'd fancy a lighter gear for it. It's only 10metres up, but you have to do it from stand still to have change to really clean it.
Fats give you lot of confidence, under extreme braking, cornering, and crossing sandtraps/mudpools. Just like narrow mud tires, but then with keeping speed up, very low rolling resistance, even in gravel, sand and mud.
They helped me to roll over the beach towards the furf, all the way from the dunes, in last weeks' beach race. I was one of the very few to not clip out, was able to keep momentum even thought the loosest sand and deep holes. I rode off the beach while warming up, got applause from bikers that witnessed it.
Somehow the fats combine a large contact patch with small knobs, in a way that gives you more traction and grip than you would expect after seeing them. The suptle casing must have something to do with it as well, after all 495g is very little for a tire that phat.
They are relatively easy to inflate tubeless, but I did have a blowoff racing it over bumby grass in a race, riding it at almost minimal pressure. My mistake I think, and Stan's rimstrip would have prevented the blowout I'm sure. even in the leading group I had Grip to spare, riding them at 3 bar would still have allowed me to keep up, while giving me even more speed on the straights. I'm not used to having 4km/h over a leading group on the straight, latex in combination with fats must have been good for at least have of that. It was going all too easy.
I suggest any self-respecting, openminded biker to try these tires out. Blame me if they are not living up to your expectations, or even my claims. I'm raving about these to all riders expect those that ride in my category :-)
These Fats are SO great, they will be the last thing I need to decide to build me a 9.3kg (thanks to the then 550g Fats) 29" bike, when Schwalbe starts making them for 700c rims. No-one will enjoy racing me with that setup, hehe. Oh, dreams....
Howcome I can't just order a pair of 29" fats, but have to wait for Schwalbe to decide that they will sell enough of them? *Sigh*...
Just like a 2.35" Minotaur 510-520g. Would be the knobby version of the Fred, incredible for high-speed cornering on grass and semi-soft dirt. I'd pay the cash for that one, no-doubt.
Who else thinks their tires can just do it all? Or any dream setups that ma |
| How does the actual volume and height of the Fat Fred compare... | AZ-X
Mar 24, 2002 11:11 AM | | to the Hutchinson Mosquito/Python/Scorpion 2.0 tires? Those are REALLY big for 2.0s because they were MADE for running at low pressure. That's why I think that they are perfect for UST or Stan-like tubeless applications. |
| How does the actual volume and height of the Fat Fred compare... | Cloxxki
Mar 24, 2002 12:43 PM | | BIG, don't know about a comparison, but is 52mm high /57mm wide a nice indication? Like a 2.0" FF, plus 1.0cm in each direction. Knobs are beefier than you'd expect from a 2.35" compared to a 2.0". when (rinding it) flat, you notice just how suptle the casing is.
In my 2001 VooDoo Bokor, there's very little clearance left to the chainsys, on the sides. 2 mm more on each side and I'd be facing rubbing. |
| I've had good luck with... | Bogus
Mar 24, 2002 11:46 AM | | Hutchinson Python Air Lights (475-480 gm) and Michelin Wildgripper Comp S Lights (435-440gm). The Hutchinsons always mount up perfectly for me but the Michelins were a little wrinkled the first time from being folded and I had to inflate them with a tube in them for a few hours the first time I mounted them, no problems since.
I haven't had these Michelins on for more than a few weeks but I like them, especially in hard pack. No flats yet but only 100 or so trail miles on them (I've been on the road bike a lot lately). I'll bet these will be OK in the mud--it's been dry here so I don't know for sure. They don't roll quite as fast as the Pythons. |
| my choices: Conti Explorer SS/Twister SS,Schwalbe Fast Fred... | nino
Mar 24, 2002 11:55 PM | | it really depends on the terrain you ride in.all of the mentioned tires mount easily with latex.
when good GRIP is needed there is just 1 tire:
new Continental Explorer Supersonic 2.1", 440-480g (that`s the weight range they come in).this tire simply rocks!for me this is the ultimate MTB tire because it combines everything:excellent grip (best in corners!!),very low rollingresistance,low weight and that with a 2.1" width that makes for some cushion/comfort on a HT.
when terrain is all dry and you really want the LIGHTEST possible:
Continental Twister Supersonic 1.9",320-360g (mine actually weigh 334g each!)
don`t expect them to last more than a "few" miles...they are prone to get flats but with latex this won`t be a problem.lightest tire,second lowest rolling resistance.
when you look for the FASTEST tire there is only this:
Schwalbe Fast Fred 2.0",350-400g.this tire is so fast it makes you feel you`re riding a roadbike on tarmac-really!german magazines tested rolling resistance and it was the fastest MTB tire.a clear winner when terrain is dry or grippy.don`t use it in sand or mud (in the loose) because it`s narrow size makes it loose traction.when there is loose stuff go for the bigger 2.35" size (have a look at Cloxxis comments above).i`d suggest them as a rear tire only.
I currently use the Conti Exüplorer SS up front and the Schwalbe FF 2.0" on the rear.best combination for fast technical tracks.I used to have the s-works SL in the front but the Conti has MUCH better grip at about the same weight.I can brake late and fast into corners and this tire makes me stick to any surface.the rear slides a bit when pushing corners but it`s all well contollable.
rolling resistance of this combo is excellent:I top out 42/11 or 42/12 on the flats (40 km/h or 25 miles)...need i say more? |
| Thanks Nino! So all these tires... | CODMAN
Mar 25, 2002 6:10 AM | | will mount up easily using the latex system (I know you are now using Eclipse, which is slightly different)??
I'm not sure I'll be able to find the Contis explorers in Supersonic format here as I've heard that the North american distributor isn't importing them! Last year we did have the Twister supersonics though, so that's encouraging! Also I live in Canada, not the US, so the distributor might be different and have different products. I know that several shops still have the Twister supersonics in stock. Have you ridden yours yet? Were they prone to tearing (in other words holes too big for the latex to seal)?
I intend to move onto the Fast freds (you and others have given it such rave reviews) later in the year since I still have a few Maxxis wormdrives 430 left (got to save $$ and use what I have). They are also very fast and inflate well (why the damn minautor 380 doesn't I don't understand!!!).
If the Twisters will hold, I think they will be great for my needs! I do multi-day stage races (100-115km per day) which are mostly fire roads. I will be using semi-slicks about 85% of the season! But a few of the stages are more technical at places (these technical parts are usually less than 50% of the 100km), so I need a bit more grip, but still need a tire that rolls fast when I get back onto the fireroads (that's why the Minautor 380 suited my needs so well!).
But most importantly, I need a tire that will mount on my rims without too much of a fuss!! Between days, we sometimes need to change tires (go from slick to knobby), and I just can't spend 2-3 hours trying to inflate the damn tires!!! I need something dependable
Anyways, your info is exactly what I needed Nino! Many thanks for the great feedback (as usual :0)) ).
Luego!
CODDERS |
| Sounds like what do in those stage races. That is why UST.. | DIRT BOY
Mar 25, 2002 11:07 AM | | seems like the best choice in running tubeless in this type of race. Can you imagine spending 1 hr getting latex into you tire and then inflate!? Until this Eclispe System hits (then run UST tires)UST is the way to go. I run Latex & Regular Tires ONLY for short hardpack courses.
My $.02 |
| You are mistaken. | mtc
Mar 25, 2002 2:03 PM | | You wouldn't show up to a race on untested equipment would you?
The tire you would bring would be one you've used right? There are a couple tires that give people problems, but if these aren't in you quiver you won't have an issue. When I change to a different set of tires I seldomly waste a CO2 trying to get the tire to seat.
The only tire I haven't been able to mount was a S-Works Rockster SL series tire, but I don't know why. If you look through the tread above you see where Cloxxki and others have had issues with a particular tire. I have successfully mounted about 12 different kinds of tires and only one or two gave me problems on the first go around.
As for an hour to mount up your tires, I can fully set up 4 wheels with stans from start to finish in one hour(not 29" they take patience), if I have a huge cup of coffee.
My.02 |
| Hey MTC, do you still have that Rockster SL S-Works tire? | AZ-X
Mar 25, 2002 2:52 PM | | I so, and you want to get rid of it, I will happily take it off your hands if the price is right and it's in good shape. I'd like to try one in the rear and the local Specialized dealer isn't able to get one for me within a reasonable amount of time... |
| I've got a brand new one | pedalAZ
Mar 25, 2002 7:41 PM | | Let's make a deal! It looks like too little tread for my taste, a real semi slick. |
| I've got a brand new one | AZ-X
Mar 25, 2002 8:08 PM | | You didn't try it out? Another AZ guy and a guy from Texas both emailed me that it's one of the best rear tires that they've used. I'm going to be racing next season and want to compare it to the twister and my current Python rear.
Email me an offer when you send the spreadsheet! |
| I've got a brand new one | mtc
Mar 26, 2002 7:21 AM | | They are pretty good tires, I used the pre SL version on the rear successfully, it is like a slightly lower volumn Python.
I'm debating(SPecialized) thier fate right now. |
| |
|
|
