|   Can anyone coment on the stiffness of Truvativ Team Cranks? | DIRT BOY
Oct 27, 2002 3:04 PM | | Cambriabike.com has them listed at 607g. They exchanging the rings and crank bolts to Extralite I am estimating getting cranks down to 585-590g with a Shook BB
DIRT BOY |
| I have that exact setup w/ the exception of the bolts. | devinr
Oct 27, 2002 5:44 PM | | The crank/bb combo is stiff enough for me. I haven't noticed any flex. Great rings too. Just used them in a mud-bath race today and they worked flawlessly. Make sure you follow the torque specs on the crank bolts; mine stripped and the non-drive crank arm came off on two rides. Put a little blue loc-tite on the crank bolts; even though I didn't follow the torque specs like I should have I still think there's a compatibility issue with the Shook BB and the Stylo Team cranks. You said you were going to get Extralite bolts. I ordered these and when I got them I saw that they were for tapered bb's. I don't think Extralite has ISIS crank bolts, but you deal with them regularely. Do they?
Devin G Rybarz, USAF |
| I have them and they are great... | Aesop Rock
Oct 27, 2002 7:13 PM | | don't listen to all this crap everyone else says...they are great cranks. and a good company to boot. if used with a shook bb, make sure to use the blue loctite. after i did this they have been perfect. How much would a set of extralite rings cost for the set? I need new rings! thanks db. |
| The NEWER ones are very stiff... | AZ-X
Oct 28, 2002 5:29 AM | | I had a set of both the last generation of square tapered and the first generation of ISIS Stylo Teams. Get the newest 2003 version with the one piece arms and spider. I believe they are the stiffest ones yet. The older ones were not in the same class of stiffness. They should be stiff with almost any ISIS BB.
The newest cranks have been redesigned and beefed up just slightly (I don't think they EVER weighed only 609g though--closer to 620g for older ones...) and the full set is closer to 650g. That weight probably includes their aluminum crank fixing bolts with extraction caps and washers (about 24-25g). The rings are pretty light. Unless they have beefed them up too, you are only going to save about 12g by going with Extralite rings. Here is a link to the Extralite rings: http://www.extralite.com/Products/octaramps_anglo.htm .
One cool thing is that Extralite is supposedly working on a 30t ring that will fit a 64/104 bolt pattern. If they make one that's any good, it will actually allow me to switch to a lighter 4-bolt crank and still keep my 2x9 setup. 95g or less for my chainrings would save me another 22g or more just on the rings alone--if the big ring shifts well. Possibly more if the crank arms weigh less than the "porky" (ha, ha!) 5-arm ISIS Turbine LPs that I use (435g?). I know that some high-end OEM bikes (Kona King Kikapu?) have come with a 4-arm version of the ISIS Turbine crankset that is supposedly lighter. I have no idea if they are making those available to the general public as an aftermarket item yet.
Any idea if Extralite has the 4-bolt 30t ring available yet? Any pricing on the rings?
If you get those new Stylo Teams, please weigh them and let us know how much the arms and rings weigh each seperately. If the arms still weigh about 480g, you might be better off with a different set of ISIS 4-arm cranks--willing to give FSA another try...? |
| 30T Extralite rings are ready... | DIRT BOY
Oct 28, 2002 5:48 AM | | That's what I am possibly planning. Either 03 Truvativ team or FSA carbon with a 44/30T set-up.
Only thing is almost every ISIS BB comes in 113mm.
klein says for my 03 frame use a 118mm XT or 116mm XTR.
If I go 2x9 will a 133mm BB work?
That's my big decision or go 03 XTR....
DIRT BOY |
| Cool... | AZ-X
Oct 28, 2002 7:03 AM | | Does your Klein have a 68 or 73mm BB shell? ISIS BBs come in 108mm, 113mm and 118mm from both Shook/American Classic and Truvativ. FSA and RaceFace may have them all too. Klein HAS to know which length ISIS BB will work with their frames. Give them a call. |
| Not sure about the chainline of ISIS vs. XT(R) but... | ®i© Wi©to®
Oct 29, 2002 4:39 AM | | ...many ISIS BB's should be available in 118 as well as 113 mm. RaceFace, Truvativ and FSA all list them.
With a 2x9 setup your Klein should be fine with a 113 mm bracket, if the triple chainline is perfect with a 118 mm. If you chainline is off to begin with, I'd stick with 118 mm. |
| I spoke with Klein and they gave me these BB recommendations.. | DIRT BOY
Oct 29, 2002 11:19 AM | | They said:
ISIS 113mm
XT 118mm
XTR 116mm or New 03 XTR.
If I decided to go ISIS I will probably try a FRM BB due to cost and weight factor.
I am also waiting on FRM making me Custom BLack Ano Cranks in 02 Triple or 2x9 2003 MTB Cranks.
I am not sure about going to about going to ISIS until I test ride the 03 XTR cranks this weekend.
DIRT BOY |
| 2002 or 2003? I have 2002s with Shook ISIS BB... | Wrenchester
Oct 28, 2002 8:00 AM | | and I really like the setup. Very noticeable increase in stiffness over the square taper setup they replaced. Crankset with supplied aluminum self-extractors weigh 643g (620 + 23). The TruShift chainrings shift very nicely, and appear to be holding up well.
I read some negative reviews on MTBR about chainring bolts coming loose. I took these as a warning, and removed, cleaned, and loc-tited all the chainring bolts prior to installing the crankset. Haven't had a single problem.
When I first installed the cranks on the Shook BB, it seemed that the cranks weren't seating all the way onto the spindle. The BB also did not run smoothly. I uninstalled the whole mess, and reinstalled it. The second time the cranks seemed to seat better. I used liberal amounts of grease--not loc-tite. The BB was still not smooth, but on Bill Shook's advice, I just rode it and it smoothed out.
I torqued the crank fixing bolts to Truvativ's specs, and they have never budged.
I am a happy customer. I'll bet the 2003s are even better! |
| has anyone proved that crank stiffness increases efficiency? | cowsinus
Oct 28, 2002 9:24 AM | | i really doubht that crank stiffness matters a damn in the big picture, other than the psychological aspect of performance enhancement. ask yourself "how much cash have i spent for the saddle factor?" (this is when someone comes and picks up your bike by the saddle and says "wow thats light!") I am not innocent. I am always teasing my friend for ridding a thirty lb heckler. this criticism fades as he pimps me on the climbs! |
| For me, it's a "seat of the pants" thing... | Wrenchester
Oct 28, 2002 12:54 PM | | and the seat of my pants says that BB/crank stiffness "feels" like faster acceleration. Of course, if the bb shell of your frame is swaying about like a sapling in a gale, then BB/crank stiffness is rather a moot point. But that's certainly another consideration when choosing your bike. |
| Not that I know of. | f-pig
Oct 28, 2002 8:09 PM | | I guarantee virtually any frame contributes WAY more to pedal deflection than your crank and bb spindle. Other huge factors are handlebars/stem (you won't get much deflection if you are not pulling on the bars), fork, and wheels. |
| Does it matter if anyone did or not...? | AZ-X
Oct 28, 2002 8:32 PM | | Who really cares? It's really a matter of common sense. If you are going to be paying your hard earned money, you may as well get the strongest, stiffest cranks you can afford to buy. Every little bit (EVERY little bit...) helps as far as control acceleration and durability go. If you think it doesn't then you shouldn't have any problems with going out and riding the most noodly stuff you can find and having fun with that.
I'd actually rather get what I'm paying for... :o) |
| Yes it does. I thought you guys were weight weenies. | f-pig
Oct 29, 2002 5:51 AM | | The "strongest, stiffest cranks you can afford to buy" are going to be heavy. If a little flex in the cranks does not affect performance, yet it lowers weight, why worry about it. I would just like to see a scientific study that measures performance as a function of crank flex.
Your argument would apply to everything else as well, such as forks, bars, frames, wheels, stems, skewers, chainrings, cogsets, and tires. Do you use the strongest and stiffest of all these parts without regard to weight? Of course you don't. If two parts are equal in weight, you would choose the stronger part, and in most cases (except maybe seatposts and seats) the stiffest part. But weight is always a factor. It will always be a trade-off. It is with cranks just as with any other part.
The German magazine article that has been floating around simply measured stiffness of bb/crank combinations. It did nothing else. Without more information, that article is useless. If your cranks flex 2mm and your frame flexes 6mm, does it really matter? Or maybe the cranks flex during the peak power phase of your stroke and then spring back immediately after, thus not giving up any net power. Who knows? I don't.
The question is: "How much stiffness do you really need before it is a detriment to performance?" I would like to see that answered. |
| No it doesn't... | AZ-X
Oct 29, 2002 6:56 AM | | We are weight weenies, but you can easily see that we don't always run the lightest parts we can get just for the sake of being light. ALL of us make "comprimises" of some sort for the sake of performance and/or durability. Even nino makes concessions in favor of strength and durability. If we didn't care, many of us would just be riding all of the lightest parts possible--just for the sake of being light. It's obvious that many on this board could or would spend the cash if they wanted too.
I am willing to use aluminum and Ti bolts, as well as light chainrings but--having broken 2 pairs of cranks in my lifetime so far (neither of which was a pleasant experience physically or financially)--I'll be very happy to stick with something like my RaceFace Turbine LP ISIS cranks rather than some Topline noodles or a pair of drilled and milled XT cranks. I also will not sacrifice anything as far as acceleration goes (and flex will rob you of this on this part of the bike, make no mistake) even though--and partially BECAUSE--I ride an FS bike. We all make our choices for different reasons. This still matters to me despite the fact that I haven't raced competatively in many years. I didn't by a car with a turbo engine and upgrade the suspension because I plan to race it either. I still like snappy performance and solid control because I've been riding for so long, feels better, and it makes riding even more fun.
None of may be enough for you in your quest for numbers, but until someone does the study that you'd like to see, I hope it will suffice... |
| Like a Manitou Black Elite Air instead of a Sid SL nm | tankhead10
Oct 29, 2002 10:23 AM | | |
| Also... | AZ-X
Oct 29, 2002 7:10 AM | | Sure, I wouldn't mind seeing some more applied mathematics, but would that really be capable of answering the qualitative and subjective effects of such "minimal" cumulative input? I would tend to doubt it.
Everything makes a difference. The stiffer the parts are--cumulatively--the less energy will be lost overall as far as power transfer goes. That, of course, depends entirely upon which direction and at which time any existing flex may occur. That's one of the reasons that some people are faster over a long, bumpy course on fatter tires or on an FS bike. Too many variables may get in the way of ever giving you the answer you seek if you keep adding to them. Nobody will ever be able to tell you which cranks are stiff enough to be used with which frame or combination of parts, because there would never be that much time, or collaboration, put into that sort of study...
Anyway, rambled enough for today--back to work! :o) |
| To each their own. | f-pig
Oct 29, 2002 9:52 AM | | Personally, I have a set of Topline "noodles" with a square taper Ti bb on one of my most ridden bikes. I don't notice it flexing any more than my bike that has an XTR crankset on it. In fact, I think the bike with the XTR feels much flexier due to the lightweight Scandium frame than the titanium frame that the Toplines are on. That is one reason why I think crank flex is negligible. Crank strength, as you pointed out, is critical. Cranks shouldn't break.
Anyway, you're probably right that no one will do necessary experiments. So I agree, if you think something is too flexy, don't buy it. Everyone needs to use their own judgement. Maybe I'm light enough (or weak enough) that I don't notice the flex.
By the way, where do you live. I assume AZ. Me too. Where do you ride? |
| Mark, is that you? | pedalAZ
Oct 29, 2002 10:30 AM | | Call me PaddleAZ if you're who I think you are |
| Not Mark. | f-pig
Oct 29, 2002 11:43 AM | | Just wonderin' if you ride where I do. |
| A sampling | pedalAZ
Oct 29, 2002 1:01 PM | | Trail 100: mostly 8, 8A, 8B, 1A, 100
SoMo: Mormon Loop, National, Telegraph (once), Desert Classic (once)
Pima & Dynamite: both from the west and east entrances
White Tanks
McDowell Mtn Regional Park: loops and Pemberton
Hawes: only once, recently, and I liked it a lot
Prescott: Granite Basin area, Spruce Mtn, West Spruce Mtn, et al
Sedona: Huckaby, Cathedral rock, et al
Tucson: Red Ridge on Sunday in the snow, baby!
To ride list: Crown King, Estrella, Prescott TR 305, Flagstaff, Moab, Fruita, St. George, Brianhead, et al |
| If you want a good Phoenix ride: | f-pig
Oct 29, 2002 2:02 PM | | Do the Flight of the Pigs the day after Thanksgiving. It's long. It's fun. Many of the hardcore AZ bikers will be there.
www.flightofthepigs.com |
| I've thought a lot about that one | pedalAZ
Oct 29, 2002 2:07 PM | | and am not sure I've got the stamina for the whole enchilada. Sunday was 6 hours and left me fully spent, and it was mostly downhill. Add for all the climbing on both SoMo and several on T100, plus the techy downhill on SoMo and you could get pretty wrung out making the whole loop. The guys I know of who ride it include some strong single speeders, who obviously are much stronger than I am.
My house is a mile and a half south of T100 between 36th St & 40th Streets. I thought I might make it to that far and bail out for home, but that's not the point, is it? |
| You'll just have to try it. | f-pig
Oct 29, 2002 2:24 PM | | You'll be surprised at how much you can actually do when you try it. You're right that the point is not to bail out, but if you make it to the end of Trail 100 at Tatum, you can make it the rest of the way (you'll just have to forget that you're passing right by your house). Trust me, if you do it, you won't regret it. |
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