|   Mavic 317disc or 3.1x tubeless disc rims if using stan's? | AZflightnurse
Jan 29, 2003 8:18 AM | | Hey there, I'm getting a new wheelset with my Blur and need some advice. I'm going to be running the new XTR splined hubs with DT revolution spokes, but I'm having trouble deciding on the rims. I want to run the stan's system (I currently run Crossmax tubeless with tubeless pythons). I want to go to the python airlights and run stan's sealant. Should I go with the lighter rim (317) and run the whole stan's system? Or should I get the tubeless rim and have the option of running the system either way (tubeless or standard tires)and suffer the 100 gram rim penalty? Can I run the python airlight on the tubeless rims with sealant only or do I need the tubeless rim strip that stan sells? Lot's of questions, thanks for in advance. Scott |
| re: Mavic 317disc or 3.1x tubeless disc rims if using stan's? | msisti
Jan 29, 2003 8:29 AM | | I've been running Stan's on VXC rims with the Stan's tubeless system. I'm very happy with the system, but it's far from perfect. I would have to say, for convenience, I'd go with the 3.1x, then you can save weight by running a non-UST tire, but again, I'd run a UST for lowest maintenance.
A friend of mine put some Stans in his UST tires/UST rims. He lost a few pounds of air pressure a week, but never had a flat or any other problem. |
| Some things to consider... | FritzMan
Jan 29, 2003 11:50 AM | | I believe rim strips are 60 gr, so your net gain running non-UST rims would be 40gr/wheel. Having said that, I find mounting non-UST tires on my XMax hoops, without rim strips, a PITA (well worth the effort though). I imagine mounting with the rim strips is an easier process, how much though I don't know. Using rim strips with UST rims is possible, but a 'filler' is required under the strip to level out the deep cross section, and the 60+ gr penalty is reduntant with the existing UST air tight design.
On the trail, some say the rim strip prevents 'burping', further justifying the use of rim strips and non-UST rims, although I've never had issues running 35psi on my XMax. There's also the potential benefit of the UST rims being physically stronger and possibly more able to handle bottoming-out the tire while running lower pressures, but I doubt it's and issue for non-UST rims. |
| re: Mavic 317disc or 3.1x tubeless disc rims if using stan's? | Vaughn
Jan 29, 2003 11:53 AM | | 3.1 rim weighs 450g plus spoke adapters 50g = 500g.
317 rim weighs 395g plus Stan's strip 55g = 450g.
A 317 set will save 50g each wheel and hold a non-UST tire better with regard to burping and conforming to irregular tire beads than the 3.1 rim.
I have the 3.1s and will use UST tires am building a second wheel set with 317s for non-UST.
-V- |
| Questions about burping... | Tscheezy
Jan 29, 2003 1:29 PM | | I ran the wide Stan's strips with Mavic F219 rims and burped half of my psi on a hard-braking, off-camber, downhill turn. I rode it out, but it made me think. I have gone back to tubes in the mean time as most of my punctures are because of sharp rocks tearing mega-holes in the tire's casing (even had my 950 gram Nokian Dual 2.3 puke it's contents recently).
What is it about UST rims, UST tires, non-UST rims with Stan's, and non-UST tires with Stan's which makes some combos more burp-proof than others? What is the most burp resistant?
The way the Stan's strip nests in under the hook seems to significantly reduce the bead's ability to grab on under there. Is a UST rim even more anemic in it's hook? I have not looked closely at a UST rim before.
Thanks for any info,
tscheezy |
| Tscheezy, I have tried both combos... | DIRT BOY
Jan 29, 2003 2:59 PM | | The only time I had "Burping" was when i ran conventional tires on a Crossmax with sealant with at 30psi. I have never had a UST burp air in the 3yrs I have been using UST rims and tires.
I also had a tire burp on a Mavic 517 with latex sealed tires with Stan's Strip. UST and Stans, once. Eclipse Kit with UST and standard tires, never.
I thin Stan's older rimstrips went too close to the rim hook. This did not allow the tire's bead too hook on the rim properly. I should also mention this was with his older latex sealant. I think his new sealant is better and seems to "glue" the tires bead to the rim strip and not allowing air to escape. Basically forming a tube.
I now mounted some WTB Mutano Raptors on my CrossMax and these won't burp air at 32psi with the Eclipse latex or Stan's Newer latex. When I went to change out the tires to go back to a UST set for muddy conditions, the beads were stuck to the rim really good by the latex. I had to push the bead off with a lot of force. The newer sealants seem to be doing the job for me.
Personally i feel a UST rim is better designed to hold a tires bead to the rim than Stan's or the Eclipse System. Also the rim was designed to be run in a tubeless environment and will take the abuse better of lower psi than light weight XC rims. I am sure a beefier XC rims will also handle lower psi abuse well too. One reason UST rims are heavier besides being air tight..STRONGER!
DIRT BOY |
| I was using the newer latex... | Tscheezy
Jan 29, 2003 9:06 PM | | but the strip does cover the entire rim channel right up tight under the hook, effectively reducing the amount the bead can curl under. It only burped that once (though I only ran the Stan's for about 3 weeks before I decided it didn't help me at all) and only tried it with one tire (a Weirwolf).
Maybe just an unlucky setup. I don't race, so stopping to fix a tube every now and then beats the headaches I get messing around when the Stan's goop explodes all over the place when the Kodiak slate rips my tire a new one.
Thanks for the info.
tscheezy |
| my concern would be the spoke choice.... | spinjunkie
Jan 29, 2003 3:07 PM | | using revos in a disc application. I've always thought it was a no-no myself. I'd hate to see you build-up whatever wheelset you choose and start to break spokes due to the loads a disc places on a wheel.
Most reputable wheel builders are using 14/15/14 gauge in a 3 cross pattern. Some even recommend against alloy nips. I've used alloy before with no problems, but others have had shearing problems.
You may want to look into DT's supercomp spokes (http://www.dtswiss.com/en/speichen-supercomp.html) and their pro-lock nipples (http://www.dtswiss.com/en/nippel.html). Not that it matters, but that's what I'll be using on my 29-er disc wheelset that I'll be building soon.
As far as rim choice, 317's will be lighter - have had good luck with Velocity VXC's as well. This may be a conern if you have to put a burlier spoke on the wheel than first thought. The 3.1 rim is cool to, but they are a beyatch to build so your wheel builder should have a cool head.
Chase the same question on the wheel builder's forum. You'll get a lot of response I'm sure. |
| Look below concerning spoke choice. Nino posted.... | spinjunkie
Jan 29, 2003 3:58 PM | | a listing of spoke types / corresponding gauge / weight in grams. That should help a bit! |
| Revos and disc--not a problem here. | Zonic Man
Jan 29, 2003 5:15 PM | | I'm 220, ride hard rough terrain, XTR discs, and revos front/adn rear non-drive side.
I on the wheel hand run 3.1s with WTB race casing (non-ust) and sealant with no burping at all, they're great.
For me, the 3.1s are more burley than the 317. Suzy (125lbs.) runs 317s and stan's with airlights great.
Airlights WILL NOT work without burping on a 3.1 wheelset and latex alone, I've tried it. |
| No problems with a CrossMax and Airlights at 35psi. (nm) | DIRT BOY
Jan 29, 2003 5:26 PM | | |
| Revos and disc--not a problem here. | AZflightnurse
Jan 29, 2003 5:27 PM | | You say you use revo's on the non drive side. Do you use another spoke on the drive side? Which wtb tire do you use and do you use stan's ust rim strip? Thanks Scott |
| I use DT comp on the drive side. | Zonic Man
Jan 29, 2003 11:19 PM | | And alloy nipples all around.
I use all WTB tires with success, from the new sub-400 gram epic wolf, to the weirwolf 2.5. No strip, just latex.
I burped the airlights. |
| SUB 400G EPIC WOLF!!??...When will these hit the public? | DIRT BOY
Jan 31, 2003 5:23 AM | | Are Knobby or Semi-Slicks?Size, volume...DETAILS and PICS please?
Really starting to see improvemnet from WTB in tires and the other products. I use to hate thier tires but they are doing a great job latley..
DIRT BOY |
| I'd be wary of that combo, but if it's working.... | spinjunkie
Jan 29, 2003 8:18 PM | | who am I to question it? They're not too flexy? I'm sure I know the answer to that question tho. |
| Nope, they're fine. | Zonic Man
Jan 29, 2003 11:18 PM | | Between an ultra stiff custom built hardtail, and the fox fork, I can't tell of any flex. |
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