|   video of crazy Japanes rider Kiminori Koshio | Regder
Dec 13, 2001 1:28 AM | | the guy rides a full suspension Foes ZigZag, the next big trend among north american riders?
He got second at Itadori in the highly competitive Expert class this year and from I believe eighth place in Master class last year at the same comp.
here's the link:
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~NJ8M-TNK/010826-005.jpg |
| HOW?? | OrBust
Dec 13, 2001 1:39 AM | | How in gods name does he do any rear wheel moves? I dont see any advantages what so ever with rear suspension....the ONLY advantage I can even remotely see is on drops...but even then, in my experience, a HT can land just as smooth. Correct me if im wrong, but I think the guy just wants to be different then everybody else.... |
| HOW?? | Optikal
Dec 13, 2001 11:19 AM | | Maybe he finds that he is able to preload the rear suspension to get higher sidehops, etc???
I think thats pretty wack. As fun as it is to pedalkick Super 8s and Big Hit DH's, I still find my trials bike a *little* nicer! |
| maybe he just stinks | ~ScaryFast~
Dec 13, 2001 2:25 PM | | is this guy good? maybe he just hops all over the place like so many dualie-riders do when they 'ride trials', then hucks off the drops...
Is there actually a video? cuz all i see is a little picture. |
| Where's the video? | Ryan*
Dec 13, 2001 2:27 PM | | Check this out, is this guy about to splatter? or just splat.
Im guessing he isnt going to go splat but damn.
Let me just pitch a bitch if I can, you bc riders are beyond spoiled.
It seems like the whole of BC is immersed in bad ass terrain, mobs of riders and talent.
I ride alone, Ive been riding alone from the beginning.
Piss off! <- not really angry. |
| I'm from BC | Optikal
Dec 13, 2001 4:42 PM | | AND YOU'RE RIGHT, ahaha hahaha ha hah aha
The riding here kicks ass, but I'm taking the Zebdi for a year's trip to New Zealand in January. I'll be living in Auckland, so if anyone is from around there and rides trials, post here or e-mail me at mail_tristan at yahoo dot com.
I'll be sure to post on what the riding and riding scene down there is like. |
| re: video of crazy Japanes rider Kiminori Koshio | Regder
Dec 14, 2001 2:35 AM | | well he has his suspension setup fairly stiff, however it still does move. How or why he does it I have no idea, but then again I don't understand the need or want for a suspension fork either. Some say that he does indeed preload the suspension when doing moves to give him greater distance (dangerousdave can you verify this?), I don't know but it definitely seems to be working for him. He is afterall one of the best 26" trials riders in the world, he can huck with the best of them :) Try saving it to your hard drive then playing it (right click on the link and click save as), should work.
Ryan, yes he is doing a splatter. Moto trials riders do a lot of the moves that trials riders can do, well of course with the help of a kicker here and there to get them in the air.
Tristan, have fun in New Zealand, I hear it's beautiful :)
here's a pic of his setup from 2000 if anyone is interested: |
| re: video of crazy Japanes rider Kiminori Koshio | Fred
Dec 14, 2001 4:04 AM | | nope it doesn't work just a pic.
Maybe fullsusp could be the next thing...like mototrials, think the Arrow Ds3 would be more appropriate it has short chainstays(420mm) loads of tire clearance upto 24x3.0 and it can be run 2.5-4.5in of travel i believe. sounds really cool and i would like to hear some more of this guy, any websites? |
| I suck | Regder
Dec 14, 2001 4:32 AM | | I posted the link to the picture not the movie, my mistake. Here's the actual link:
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~NJ8M-TNK/010826-005.mpg
Do I think full sus. is the next big thing? Perhaps, the world is full of morons, we just need to get Ryan Leech on a fs and everyone will follow. Suspension has no place on a trials bike (yeah yeah, shoot me), it does nothing but get in the way, a half decent rider should be able to absorb the hits with his body without relying on additional damping elements.
Now you are asking yourself, if suspension works on moto trials bikes why can't it work on trials bicycles. Most prominent, they are not the same, the bikes aren't used the same, the courses aren't designed the same, the bikes are far from the same.
A few simple answers, moto trials needs the suspension because otherwise they would probably break their bikes. These guys are going absolutely huge, if they didn't have the suspension I can gaurantee that they would break their motor or drivetrain, and likely themselves too, mtb trials riders do not have this concern. Second, their bikes weigh around 150-200lbs from what I remember, not exactly as easy to manouver as a 20lbs trials bike.
Although the two sports rely on the same premise, they are hardly executed the same and need different bikes.
Imagine trying to ride mtb trials on a dh bike with a Monster T, 4" rear tire. That would be the mtb equivalent of a moto trials bike, sounds like fun, eh? |
| suspension | grandma
Dec 14, 2001 5:09 AM | | suspension on a trial bike does not make sense in any way.
To argue with motorbikes (for trials) having suspension does not make sense either.
With the weight of a motorbike you need to use the horsepower and the suspension preload to get the bike somewhere while in bycicle trials the suspension sucks up your body english making you going nowhere.
It is as simple as that.
With hard suspension setup you may get it to work like this japanes rider but still I do not think that he got any benefits from it. Maybe some advantages here but at the same time some disadvantages there.
Seems to me more like an extravaganca attitude.
As long as you are not jumping stairs (landing in the stairs) even for street riding I believe a rigid fork is better.
Same goes for dirt jumping. Learn how to land smooth and you will not have to worry about leaking suspension and stuff like that.
grandma |
| Suspension | Otto
Dec 14, 2001 6:41 AM | | The use of suspension seems a bit misunderstood. While the suspension does serve to absorb impact, it would be near impossible to launch a motorcycle up a wall without the combination of throttle/clutch control AND suspension rebound.
That said, a DH bike is not a full suspension trials bicycle. A fair analogy cannot be drawn. A cross country hardtail with 16.7" chainstays, 18" seattube and clipless pedals would make a poor trials bike as well.
Wait until a true suspension trials frame is made before ruling the concept absurd. |
| Suspension | Regder
Dec 14, 2001 10:55 AM | | I don't think you understood my point entirely. My little analogy was simply intended to state that trials bicycles cannot take advantage of suspension the way that motorcycles can and as such should not be used in a trials setting.
"it would be near impossible to launch a motorcycle up a wall without the combination of throttle/clutch control AND suspension rebound"
I agree, however trials riders of the mtb sect do not have forward power at the flick of the wrist and cannot take such advantage of the suspension rebound. Using suspension in a mtb trials setting would require a completely new outlook to section design. If you watch Koshio closely, his riding resembles more of a moto trials style than a mtb one. Dominated with quick lurches and not much time on the rear wheel, I'll try and find a short video I have of him from Itadori 2000 showing the same style. However he is the only one that I know of riding like this, the rest of the trialsin community has a vastly different style that is based around a rigid bicycle design. Our comp sections are also designed to be taken advantage of by a rigid bicycle, how Koshio gets through it I have no idea.
Do I think that a FS with a trials inspiration is a realistic vehicle for modern bicycle trials? No, we would have to look to create a completely new riding style and sections that would more closely mimic moto trials. I remember during the summer I was screwing around on my buddies Santa Cruz Tazmon. If there is such a thing close to a production FS trials bike, this would be it, the frame is stiff and only has some 2.5-3" of travel and he has his suspension setup stiff. The Risse air shock is pumped up to something like 300psi, zero sag and it only moves when you hit a decently sized bump, with a Rock Shox Judy on the front setup decently stiff. I tried trialsing on it with my mtb trials mentality, well guess what, I got nowhere. Just hopping on the rear wheel posed a problem, when I did little hops the suspension wouldn't move, when I did a big correction the suspension would move throwing my balance off. Doing moves such as gaps or sidehops were even worse, completely throwing me off when the suspension moved. Had I looked at it through a moto trials riders eyes I might have done a bit more, but there is no way that I could reasonably use it in a competition setting.
Your mention of the cross country hardtail reminds me of local pro Matt Anthon's days riding a Look mtb/road bike in a huge size, and this guy is pro... He now rides for Brisa
Should someone design a FS from the ground to be a trials bike, without the changes mentioned above it would get nowhere in the current trials scene, well unless we get more riders such as Koshio which is unlikely |
| Suspension | Regder
Dec 14, 2001 11:31 AM | | here's the vid showing the same style, http://www.geocities.com/regderinium/000827kosio01.mpg
he fives this section, but most of the riders did too |
| Suspension | Surfboard921
Dec 14, 2001 1:25 PM | | Suspension does have it's place in trials, only for the non-competing riders like me, who don't gives a rat'ass about the competition style and rides just for themselves (and for the benifits of the occasionals spectators;)) 4years ago when I was into DH I broke both of my wrists when I wen't over the handelbars going at 60km/h and landing hands first into huge rocks and roots, now my wrist will never be as strong as they were before that crash, so if I wouldn't have my JudyXC(with heavy springs) in front of my trial bike, I wouldn't be able to ride because my wrists would just hurt like hell. So if you forget about competition and all the hype around it, it makes a lot of sense to have a suspension fork |
| Suspension | Regder
Dec 14, 2001 1:52 PM | | I disagree, by non competing what are you implying? A rider that just gets on his bike to screw around on or a rider who wants to actually ride trials (i.e. emulate comp lines in a non competition setting). For the former I can see the advantage of a suspension fork, however not for the latter. I for one have pretty weak wrists, believe me if I can survive riding without chronic wrist pain then you probably can too.
Have you tried riding without a sus fork and seeing whether the pain remains or are you just assuming?
This is coming from someone who does not compete, but I stand by my idea that if you are serious about trials and all that it entails you really should consider running a rigid fork. It allows you a considerable amount more control and feel for the bike. It might not be as important to a pro but for someone who is still learning I would say it is rather important |
| OMG that site has TONS of movies | goosemagoo
Dec 14, 2001 7:40 AM | | Wow, that site has what looks like hundreds of movies. Most are small but what a collection for all you video lovers out there. I can't read the Japanese writing but just keep clicking. I've seen over a hundred already. I started from this page:
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~NJ8M-TNK/
Later,
Steve |
| yeah, I found it a while back | Regder
Dec 14, 2001 10:56 AM | | thought I posted it, guess not. I'll save you a bit of time here, the only good ones are from Itadori 2000 the rest are all pretty bad, trust me I downloaded all of them. |
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