|   Buy an Echo frame for less than $100US | ~ScaryFast~
Dec 30, 2001 1:58 PM | | Ok, this is just an excerpt of a post I made on trials-online.com about a website I have been looking at. It is of no use to anyone, unless you're in china, but I find this whole method of doing business so interesting....and SOOO SKETCHY. Are you a gamblin' man/woman?
Check out www.panpa.com/shop.htm
In case you were wondering, 1 canadian dollar = 5.28 Yuan when I checked a couple days ago.
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Ok, if you go to http://www.panpa.com/shop.htm that is actually a page with instructions as to how to order. This is on the panpa page, and I am not 100% sure as to what Panpa is...it looks like a magazine, but you can mail order from them? Either that, or it's direct from Echo.
Well, if you have that shop.htm page in front of you, it's all Chinese, except for 'echo' and a bunch of numbers. "1, 2, 3" details how to order....and let me forewarn you, it's sketchy.
1. Choose what you want. [That's the easy part. The prices are there, and they are fabulous huh? That includes shipping, too. More on shipping in a minute]
2. Deposit the money into the bank account they give you, at the named bank. 405512 6131 2671700, and they give you the name [Starting to sound sketchy, huh?]
3. From the deposit, you should have a receipt of some sort. At this point, you will either Fax the receipt with your order to Echo at 020-86434031, or you can call Echo. Either way, "Mr. Leung" will get the info from you (amount, date deposited, what you want, your phone number, your city) and your stuff will be sent out. [notice, you didn't even give your address?]
And then you'll get your stuff....the list 1-7 below is a few extra details....
You don't submit your address - only your city - because they don't deliver to your door. After they verify that you've paid the money, they'll call you and tell you when their delivery truck will be in your city and you pick it up from them. This takes 4 business days if you live in a big city, 6 for smaller cities. They package the bikes in boxes, so you don't need to worry about damage.
Following those details are the account info for the bank account you pay to, and "mr Leung's" number at Echo, then a sample order form filled out as a format for you to copy when you fax in your order.
Easy huh???? Naturally, I wouldn't even consider trying that outside of China or you can kiss your money goodbye. My mom was SUPER skeptical when she was helping me translate it, but after I explained the webpage was meant for people IN china, she said "Ok, well I guess it is legitimate. If they tried to pull fraud on you, they'd be shot by the government. If you did this from Canada, they'd steal your money for sure"
So there you have it. And as an interesting point, the Echo ES-1 (the stock bike you can order here) is ACTUALLY called "hard bone" in chinese, just like they say on www.echobike.com, the company's english page.
I think that if I were in China for a while (not just like a 1 week vacation) then I would give this a shot. It's a $140CDN gamble, but possibly a worthwhile one. Of course, I'd have to be there with my parents because I don't speak Mandarin at all.
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1 Zebdi = 5.5 Echos
1 Zero = 6.5 Echos
When the new street Echo comes out, maybe then a Zebdi will only be worth 5 whole Echos....craziness! I can't believe that I could probably sell the handlebar on my XC bike (monkeylite), and use that money to buy an entire frame in China. Geeez |
| EXACTLY | Regder
Dec 30, 2001 2:06 PM | | nice to see I'm not the only one that sees how ludicrous this whole situation is. A 400% markup is just plain wrong. Hell, I'm surprised it's taken this long for people to realize how large a difference there actualy is. I've been saying the same thing for a while now...
If anyone wants to get an Echo frame for cheap, check out this guy: http://www.bwbike.com/
He was advertising on biketrials.com a little while back. I believe someone bought a frame off him for $250 Canadian ($160 american) and had no problems with him. |
| not ludicrous to some... | ~ScaryFast~
Dec 30, 2001 3:06 PM | | The idea of the huge markup is ludicrous to most of us, but since my parents are from China, I can sort of see the other side of the coin...
Their mentalities are totally different than ours; not quite as far as, say the Taliban of course, but China is a less wealthy country, and they don't exactly have complete freedom as citizens or business people.
The government controls everything, so the government can say "Sell it for $100 within the country because our citizens are poor and we can't make profit from our own poor people, but at least we can charge what they're worth to everyone else"....just an example.
Is that ridiculous? Yeah, one might say that...but hey, the SAME thing is happening here.
Example: You can get into med school in a lot of universities in Ontario with a lower average if you are from Ontario. Or how about this: McGill med school (in Montreal) accepts about 140 students each year. They accept only about 3-5 non-Quebec Canadians, but they accept way more from the US and abroad. This is regulated by the quebec government.
Are you a Canadian wanting to go to the States for university? If you go to a state college, you'll be paying $35 000US, whereas all the hometown kids will be paying $10 000 or less.
So crazy government imposed double standards aren't so foreign after all. |
| not ludicrous to some... | Regder
Dec 30, 2001 4:08 PM | | I see your point and that's part of the reason that the mark up is so high. Not sure if the government had any part in it, but Echo definitely sells their frames outside of China simply as a result of it being an export.
I doubt that the government had any part since one of their foreign distributors refused to buy and sell them at the same price as Trialsin and was able to get a deal. They sell them at about $250 or $300 american I think, still more than in China though.
The reason that this is a sore point for me is that people are snapping up Echo's at a pretty high price when in reality it is a very cheaply made frame. I'm just trying to spread awareness.
Oh and try and sending the guy an e-mail. Maybe there is something he can work out so that you can feel safe. |
| hey Regder | ~ScaryFast~
Dec 30, 2001 3:18 PM | | I checked out that bwbike.com website - there's like nothing on there! I guess if you wanted to get an Echo, you'd just have to call/email the guy?
That, too, seems a little sketchy. Who bought from him? |
| S'more Echo.. | ken g
Dec 30, 2001 4:59 PM | | First off, Panpa is (I believe) the company that makes Echo..
BW Trading is the Southeastern Asia dealer for Echo, for now, that may change.
The person that bought the Echo for $250 CDN, is from Vancouver. I believe he had his father bring it back from Hong Kong for him.
The ES1 name, came from Tim at Trialsin, because, well ...."hardbone"?? c'mon!. They actually come in with "Hardbone" decals on them, which are quickly removed, by me...
As far as pricing goes...there's a lot more involved than just getting the frames from China, marking them up %400 ??, and selling them in Canada...or the US.
Speaking in terms of bringing them into Canada...
First, we have to deal with the GST (7%), then 13% duty on non-Canadian/US bikes or parts. Then if it is valued under $250.00 CDN, there is a 64% anti dumping tariff added. yes, that's 64%!!! Kinda like the softwood lumber dispute.
Let's not forget shipping, it gets kinda expensive, and of course brokerage fee's.
So as you can see, it all adds up...that's to bring them into Canada, I can't speak for any costs endured getting them into the US...
Ken
The Trialsin' Shop |
| thank you for the clarification | Regder
Dec 30, 2001 8:40 PM | | I wasn't aware that you were faced with such exorbitant fees. You do have to admit that it doesn't look great from a consumer's perspective, paying four times as much for a product simply based on location, but that isn't my problem. My point in my statements (as numerous as they are) is to diffuse the hype spread by certain persons regarding the frame. It has good geometry, but that is the limit to it's positive aspects. There are numerous other frames sold by you that I would consider a better buy for the price.
Smart move on your part taking the Hardbone stickers off.
Oh and didn't that guy break his echo within one month, or was it someone else in BC. I wonder if he was able to get warranty. |
| thank you for the clarification | ken g
Dec 30, 2001 11:16 PM | | He still has his Echo, and is currently trying to sell it....
The one you may have heard about, was in Victoria, and cracked at the end of the headtube gussetts. And yes, it was warrantied.
There are other products that cost a lot more in North America, than they would in Asia, electronics for one. It's made there, there is no shipping,duty,taxes, etc to deal with for the consumer, so of course it will be cheaper.
I receive quite a few calls from UK riders regarding Brisa...My Brisa prices are cheaper than the UK prices, until you add their VAT tax (17.5% I think?) and shipping costs. In the end it isn't worth the hassle for them.
Personally, I prefer to buy from someone who is a local as possible, so if(and considering we're talking trials, and nothing is unbreakable)and when, they may have a problem, it can usually be resolved quickly.
Sorry, my thoughts are kinda all over right now....headcolds can do that sometimes!!!
Ken
The Trialsin' Shop |
| thank you for the clarification | Regder
Dec 31, 2001 12:01 AM | | figured it was a Victoria rider. Seems every time I talk to Brett one of the riders over there broke their frame, hell virtually everyone of them has broken a Zebdi. Must be something in the air...
Wasn't aware of the electronics thing, just the Echo caught my eye. Trade is a really weird thing. I know we can get some bikes/parts here cheaper than they are sold in their homeland, DMR is a big one. You can pick up a frame around here for $300, in the UK I think it's around $600. Strange how these things work out.
I completely agree with you on buying local, if you have a problem there is little hassle in getting it fixed. That's why I asked about the broken Echo, good to hear he got a warranty.
Get better man, and have a happy new years :) |
| importing | ~ScaryFast~
Dec 31, 2001 10:38 AM | | Ken, I can totally see how those fees would add up; just ordering stuff from the states I find a big hassle. I can imagine dealing with a Chinese company probably isn't easy either (or do you know Chinese?)
Buying electronics in Asia is another decent deal, but not as hyped up as a lot of people would make it to be. The big thing is that they have way MORE selection, and many of their products are released there months before they are available here. A lot of stuff just isn't even available here.
For the stuff that is, though, the price difference isn't that big, and of course you lose your warranty and sometimes have hassles to deal with like different voltages for power outlets...I had some troubles trying to find help with my Panasonic Minidisc player here a while ago. Naturally Panasonic Canada didn't offer any help whatsoever because they don't do MD in the western hemisphere.
Anyways, this is a bike forum, so I'll talk about that: Being a poor student now, bottom line is I would still buy a no-warranty Echo if I got it for dirt cheap. Just call me Mr. Smooth |
| importing | ken g
Dec 31, 2001 12:00 PM | | I don't blame you, I'd buy it for those prices too. The only point I'm trying to make is, we're not gouging people on prices, with all the hidden costs in getting them here, the mark up isn't very much at all.
Happy New Year!
Ken
The Trialsin' Shop |
| importing | Tommot
Jan 1, 2002 3:49 PM | | how much is the importing of brisas, cos i was looking at that. they are £450 here in the uk (about $700, no?). and arent trialsin seliing them for $375? i cant see how vat & shipping adds up to $325, especially as US tax can be deducted cant it?
Also, whats weird, looking at american sites, everyone says how a lot of people have brisas, and people are paying $700 for orange zero frames. this strikes me as strange. in the uk, brisas are more expensive then orange frames (and i think its really hard to get hold of a brisa, cos the sole importer has stopped importing), so a lot of people have oranges, but want brisas. its kinda weird. anyway
enough talking.
tom |
| importing | Regder
Jan 1, 2002 11:56 PM | | I'm bored so I'll try deciphering your post.
450 pounds equals $1042 canadian ($654 american) , damn our dollar is in the gutter. So the difference is a little under $400 canadian, or 175 pounds, quite substantial. Trialsin doesn't deal brisa's.
Orange frames go for about $1000 canadian, or 430 pounds. So we pay about the same amount for an Orange as you guys pay for Brisa's, interesting.
That pretty much shows how large an impact the trade taxes have on the price. Hope that helped, I really had no clue what you were asking |
| importing | grandma
Jan 3, 2002 5:13 AM | | just to add another example.
I recently bought a rear hub directly from planet x. Brant would give me a nice deal and I am quite happy.
But I was really wondering about prices. In UK (PX directly) the hub is 75 pounds originally and at unrealcycles (I think it is USA) the same hub goes for 70 $.
THat is one hell of alot cheaper. But since they come from UK they should be cheaper there than in the US right?
Well, nevermind, I am happy and just waiting for the totally lame german Post to deliver my rim which is on it's way for about 3 weeks now (from germany to germany) so I can lace it up and get riding again. Really wonder where the packet got stuck before christmas.
cya |
| huh? | ken g
Jan 3, 2002 8:43 AM | | I don't totally understand what you're asking? if you're asking anything that is. It looks as if we're dealing with 3 different currencies here, so that kinda confuses things a little...
Of course Brisa will be more expensive in the UK than here in North America, due to the UK's import taxes and shipping costs. And since Orange is local to the UK, those prices will be lower(in the UK) than what we can sell them for here in North America.
To import Brisa into Canada, they are basically looked at as a US frame,(technically they weren't, but are now), so duties are exempt. That's the main reason for the lower Brisa price here than in the UK.
Is Bikedock totally out of the Brisa Biz?
Trialsin' USA doesn't sell Brisa, you may be looking at pricing from the Brisa (Biketown) site. And I'm just assuming they're priced at $375 US, to get rid of the 2001 stock, making way for the 2002's.
Confused yet? I am.....
Ken
The Trialsin' Shop |
| What about the 911? | Joe S
Jan 3, 2002 3:53 PM | | First: it seems like the third link means "1750 yuan for a complete bike except brakes"?
And if so, 450 yan for the "911" bike, looking more like a duals/dirt frame? Is this the "street Echo" you talk about?
Any clues on frame sizes, if there is a derailleur hanger, if headset and bottom bracket sizes are standard etc?
Now there is just the problem of finding someone doing business in China... |
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