|   ventana pantera? | tommyrod74
Jan 15, 2002 9:02 AM | | Hi Guys-
Anyone know anything about this frame? Anyone had an opportunity to ride one? Seems like a good deal price-wise, and a great alternative for a single-pivot to the hordes of Isis and Superlights out there (nothing wrong with those, just see a lot of them).
-TR |
| Anyone have a pic of a Ventana Pantera? | Gary in VA
Jan 15, 2002 12:33 PM | | I'm looking at getting a frame in the next coming months. Anyone have a pic of this frame? |
| Anyone have a pic of a Ventana Pantera? | tommyrod74
Jan 15, 2002 12:41 PM | | www.cambriabike.com picture there. |
| Here ya go... | Ciclistagonzo
Jan 15, 2002 12:49 PM | | Here's a few pics.
Very stiff frame and now even lighter than the one pictured below.(Less than 6.0lbs)
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Close up.
OLE!
Aaron G. |
| How much travel? | Gary in VA
Jan 15, 2002 1:07 PM | | 4 inch? Thanks for the pic, that will be on the list of possibles. |
| Travel & etc..... | Ventanarama
Jan 15, 2002 1:27 PM | | Yes, 4" travel. Very sweet bike, especially considering the price. Comes stock with 4 bearings at the pivot (2 each side). Fox Float RL (lockout) comes stock. Shot-peened & anodized black only. A tad heavier but much stiffer than most other single-pivot frames. Saw the prototype at Interbike, and regular production version when when I was in Sacramento over X-mas (visited Ventana while I was there). Lots of standover too. Very nice. Retails for $1295
Larry Mettler
www.mtnhighcyclery.com |
| geometry? | Hank
Jan 15, 2002 2:07 PM | | same basic numbers/fit/sizing as the El Salt and El Fuego? Is it as quick handling as the El Salt? Thanks. |
| oops | Hank
Jan 15, 2002 2:08 PM | | meant is it as quick handling as the El Fuego? (assuming the El Fuego is quicker handling than the El Salt, though there is nothing in the geometry tables to indicate this, cept maybe a slight difference in wheelbase?). |
| Hank, see my ride review below! (nm) | Ciclistagonzo
Jan 16, 2002 8:14 AM | | nm |
| Qs for you, Larry | gonzostrike
Jan 16, 2002 8:23 AM | | all personal issues re Tony E vs Sherwood G aside, how does the Pantera compare to the Isis SL in handling, weight, etc?
how would the Pantera work with a coil rear?
what fork travel did Sherwood have in mind? |
| Well, I'm not Larry... | Ciclistagonzo
Jan 16, 2002 9:51 AM | | But, then again Larry hasn't ridden the Pantera yet. =^D
Weight wise to the ISIS, it's lighter, the frame weighs in about 5bls 12 oz. now.(15" frame). It was designed around a 100mm fork. I think a coil shock would make it plusher, and give it a very similar ride to the ISIS. I think Sherwood went with the air shock for a more trail bike/XC feel to it, and with a coil it would feel more freeridish (freeride lite? Definately strong enough) Although, Pantera seems to be a lot stiffer. The ISIS I rode flexed more, HOWEVER, I'm not saying the ISIS is flexy, because it's not, especially compared to any of the Santa Cruz frames of the same genre(4" or less travel). It's just that with the Pantera I felt no flex. The main quad bearing is super beefy.
There's gonna be a lot of comparisons between these bikes, and to that end, they are similar, especially since they were both designed by Sherwood. The best way to describe them though would be that The ISIS is good bike built well by Anodized Inc. where as a Pantera is a second generation design, Handbuilt by Sherwood and crew for the same $$$.
Aaron |
| Wow... | CoraB
Jan 15, 2002 7:20 PM | | Love some more information. I'm looking at a Titus RacerX. Everyone in my town rides a Superlight - need something different.
Any thoughts on how a single pivot Ventana might behave differently from a RacerX?
Frame isn't currently featured on the Ventana site - any idea when it will be released?
As with the original poster - Love to see/hear more. |
| Wow... | Deano
Jan 16, 2002 2:08 AM | | ...isn't this a nicely produced Marin Mt Vision (up to 2000 model)? It was always a good handling, simple design let down only by the slightly Volvo (dependable, but dull) nature of the brand (IMHO - and I owned one until it was stolen...!) and the inate qualities of a single pivot design. 'bout time someone did a high-end interpretation of it. Looks great - anyone gonna import this into the UK - I think it would do very well.
Deano |
| 4- Bar v. Monopivot | The Squeaky Wheel
Jan 16, 2002 7:32 AM | | I haven't ridden the Pantera, but I have had a lot of time on the SC Heckler (pre-Superlight version) and I own a Hammerhead Racer-X.
The Heckler is a nice bike. Light, plush, responsive. But it's not the stiffest bike and I noticed both a lot of pedal induced bob in the granny and a lot of rear brake jack.
The 4-bar Hammerhead Racer-X, in contrast, has minimal noticeable bob and no brake jack that I can appreciate. Also much stiffer. Overall a much better ride. The El Salt/Fuego platform is more similar to the Racer-X than the Pantera, but I still prefer the Racer-X. I rode an El Salt and it's a great bike. Very plush & stiff, but it felt a bit sluggish during acceleration & climbing.
The Squeaky Wheel |
| Ride Review (Long) | Ciclistagonzo
Jan 16, 2002 8:13 AM | | Ok, some of you have asked what this frame rides like. I got a chance to ride a 15" model about a month ago on an hour and half long night ride. First I should say both of my rides are coil sprung, so this was my first foray into air springs(Front was Psylo Race), second, I'm a clydesdale, I normally ride a 17/18" frame, and I weigh in at 245, and about 260 with lights and hydration pack.
First thing you notice? GOBS of standover clearance. The top tube was short for me, but not too bad. The 17" with a 23.0" TT would be a perfect fit. Both frames give a low, low Standover. I believe like 29".
The actual ride was pretty neutral. It's not super quick, nor does it steer slow. What I did notice was how well this bike tracked turns, it absolutely railed turns and when you consider that it was a 4" travel machince front and rear, that's pretty cool. Lots of travel, and yet rails turns. For those of you have/or have ridden Superlights, and felt the rear end wiggle, you don't have to worry about it with this frame. It's super stiff laterally. Whether I was climbing or just hammering a sprint you just don't feel the rear end wiggle and in the turns the rear tracks the front wheel. I even went and launched a small retaining wall (about 36") to test out the overall strength and it handled it with ease. No back end flex, no funky feelings, just the smooth feeling of the rear end soaking up the hit.
As far as the pedal induced bob? Very little, if any. I didn't feel any through the pedals and the only way I could tell anything was happening was to look down at the shock and see it cycle a few mm. The suspension is very active, and was constantly moving to suck small to big hits. But it did feel a little muted, or I should say not as snappy as my Marble Peak, but then that model is closer to semi-active. That may have more to do with the coil vs air spring.
My only quibble would be that with the low Stand over, there was a lot of Seatpost exposed, so you will have buy a strong post, (Thomson is highly recommended).
Frame weight for the prototype I rode was 6lbs even. I understand the new ones are close to a quarter pound lighter. Complete with lights the bike weighed in at 27lbs, subtract the lights = 26lbs with Hayes hydraulic brakes, and an XT build kit.
The one thing that I kept thinking about was that, for $1295, this bike was a steal, your getting the handbuilt quality of a Ventana for nearly $700 less than a Salt/Fuego and nearly $1300 Cheaper than my Bruja!
OLE!
Aaron |
| good review | Hank
Jan 16, 2002 8:56 AM | | how tall are you? I wish Ventana made a stock 18".
One thing to keep in mind when comparing tt length is that Ventana goes with a 72 STA (I think--it's no longer on the web site) whereas most builders seem to use a 73. Thus, given the same seat position relative to the cranks, the cockpit on his 23" tt bikes compares more closely to, say, a Medium Superlight with a 22.5" tt.
Anyway, thanks for the review. Sounds like a great ride. |
| oops I didn't see your ? before... | ciclistagonzo
Jan 16, 2002 1:02 PM | | Caffeine hadn't kicked in.
I'm 6' even.
I just got the brochure for Pantera, he's using a 73 deg. Seat tube. So the 23" TT is in fact a 23" TT. The Saltamontes and Fuego remain at 72. (Last I heard). Interesting thing to note, the Head angle for a 15" is 70.5, the 17" is 70.9 19" is 71.3 and the 21 is 71.6.
And check out the standover clearance. the 15" is 26.7, the 17 is 26.7, the 19" =27.10 and the 21"=27.5 the 21" has nearly 1.0" LOWER standover than my 18" Marble Peak, and Pantera has more Travel!
OLE!
Aaron |
| Additional geometry specs..... | Ventanarama
Jan 16, 2002 1:56 PM | | In addition to what Aaron posted....
Seat tube angle = 15"(73), 17"(73.4), 19"(73.8), 21"(74).
Top tube = 15"(22.27), 17"(23.17), 19"(24.08), 21"(24.72)
Wheelbase = 15"(41.85, 17"(42.7), 19"(43.55), 21"(44.17)
BB height = 15"(13), 17"(12.88), 19"(12.77), 21"(12.69)
Chainstay length = 17"
Compression ratio = 2.6/1
Larry Mettler
www.mtnhighcyclery.com |
| ?????????? | Hank
Jan 16, 2002 4:16 PM | | thanks guys for the info. BUT--this is the first bike I've ever seen where the seat tube angle gets steeper as the sizes get bigger. Is there a reason for this? |
| Ride Review (Long) | tommyrod74
Jan 16, 2002 12:33 PM | | Thanks for the good info guys!
Here's some more info I got from Sherwood himself on the phone today.
1) Due to the straight-rate suspension design, you can easily use a coil-sprung shock if you like that feel better.
2) The frame can accept any shock with a 6.5" eye-to-eye length, regardless of stroke length. What this means is that a 1.75" stroke shock (as opposed to the stock 1.5") could be used to achieve roughly 4.75" travel, no problems with swingarm/frame clearance issues.
3) The frame can easily handle a 5" single-crown fork, unlike some competitors.
4) You can order it without cantilever bosses if you like.
Sherwood is a VERY nice guy to talk to, very patient with questions and also very knowledgeable. I placed my order for the 17" about an hour ago.
-Tommy |
| Good Choice!!! | ciclistagonzo
Jan 16, 2002 12:49 PM | | And welcome to the Ventana Family.
OLE!
Aaron |
| cool! be sure to post a full report! nm | Hank
Jan 16, 2002 12:50 PM | | |
| OK, you guys... | Gary in VA
Jan 16, 2002 3:43 PM | | You guys have convinced me what my next frame will be. I'll order it in March at bonus time. Seems to fit my wants in a frame. Small maker, stiff, single pivot, climbs well. Looking good is a bonus. Thanks for all the info |
| Why single pivot? | Concha
Jan 16, 2002 5:50 PM | | Just out of curiosity, why do you prefer the single pivot design? I'm also in the market for a new bike, thinking about the Pantera or the Hammerhead X. |
| Why single pivot(personal thing)? | Gary in VA
Jan 17, 2002 5:56 AM | | I tend to like very simple things. I used to work as a motorcycle mechanic and complex things have more chances to break or get out of specs. |
| vs El Salt? | Concha
Jan 16, 2002 6:18 PM | | How did the ride quality differ from the El Salt, especially with regard to acceleration/climbing and descending? |
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