|   Besides travel - O2/XCE air vs. Truth -handling-service-etc | Marc
Apr 15, 2002 7:54 AM | | What are the differences between these bikes? I've heard about a bunch of frame failures on the new Truths. I've heard bad talk re Turner. Overall I've heard worse things re Ellsworth. Which is right? What is the difference between the tubing on O2 and Truth (I keep reading that the Truth gets huge dents very quickly)? Finally, Mac strut vs. 4-bar. Everyone keeps bringing up the Hammerhead 100x. What is the deal? |
| Hande with care - this side up | Maren
Apr 15, 2002 10:19 AM | | I've ridden my Truth hard for over a year...many rides on rough, technical CO/UT trails (on a ride last week both pythons got ripped sidewalls on the same rocky descent). My bike has no dents yet. I've crashed it in rock fields several times, flipped it, etc. That said, my friend also has a truth, and he put a small dent in his downtube on one of his first rides. I saw the whole thing...he didn't unclip in time, and fell on his side while still attached to the bike. The downtube encountered a direct hit with a big fixed rock. I doubt the dent would have happened if he had unclipped as he was going 1 mph...that 215 extra pounds of force did not help the situation. My other friend on a racer-x put a big ding on his seat stay in a similar fall. So I'm not sure if the Truth has more of a problem than other light bikes. It might -- maybe I've just had some lucky bounces. I made some pads for my Truth two weeks ago after reading horror stories, but I'm too embarassed to use them.
Frame failures: Mine hasn't failed yet, but again, maybe I'm one of the lucky ones.
Bottom line: I like the bike, and how it rides (fast fast climber, able descender), but I'm probably in the minority of the message board users. Turner and Titus (and Ventana) certainly have a better reputation from what I've read, but I've been very happy with my Truth so far. However, in retrospect, there are better ways to spend $4k than a lightweight race/trail bike, like getting a Turner DHR, dare, or quasi dh. Who cares if they're harder to pedal uphill, you'll get a better workout and have more fun on the way down. Just my opinion. |
| What "bad talk regarding Turner" have you heard? | retro slouch
Apr 15, 2002 11:56 AM | | I've heard one guy that changed his mind about his XCE after a few rides and decided it felt slow and heavy and a few people that didn't own Turners complaining about bushings. What "bad talk" are you referring to? |
| What "bad talk regarding Turner" have you heard? | Marc
Apr 15, 2002 3:55 PM | | I was leaning towards a Turner - and I told my friend at City Cycles in SF that I was looking at them and he said "don't do it". I will ask him for more specifics. Everyone has an opinion - I am just compiling all the info I can for my decision. I am completely at a stalemate between all of these bikes and I'm looking for something to swing me one way or the other. O2/XCE, Truth, HH100x |
| What "bad talk regarding Turner" have you heard? | o2 rider
Apr 15, 2002 6:08 PM | | If I had to choose between those four bikes I would break it down like this. Are you going to race? If so HH100X or 02 with air shock and fork(obviously).If your not going to race, Truth with a Romic and coil fork or XCE/coil fork and shock. I have an 02 now but I've ordered a XCE. Guess I never got around to racing. Never had any issues with the frame in three years, just grease the pivots about once a month. Never took apart the frame. Still just as stiff as new. I did look at the Truth but the equal travel on the 02 swayed me to Turner.(in 99 the Truth was 80mm front/100mm rear I think) As far as handling goes, the stable steering of my 02 has saved a lot of skin. All are very good bikes. |
| Preliminary comparison of the two ... | dogbert
Apr 15, 2002 12:41 PM | | I've owned two Truths ('99 and newer SE) totalling almost 3 years of riding. I just put the first two rides on my XCE this past weekend. On the Truths, I've had a CC AD10, Float R, and a Romic Double coil. On the XCE, I have the Fox Vanilla RC coil, not air. I will reserve final judgement on the XCE until I get more saddle time, but so far ...
it's a little heavier than a Truth, but not by much, or at least not enough for me to notice/care. On the two different trail systems I rode, I was able to make almost every climb on the Turner that I did on the Truth (some short steeps and some lengthy, technical ones). After not being on a bike for about 4-5 weeks, fitness may have been more of a detriment than the bike on the climbs where I stalled. The Truth is quicker handling, at times feeling skittish, especially at speed. As a way to put the XCE through its paces, I purposely planned my two rides to include most of the tight switchbacks that sometimes have given me trouble. For an "allegedly" slower handling bike, the Turner got me through all of them. On the descents, the XCE was more stable and "felt" faster (don't know for sure since I don't use a computer). So far, it seems like the Turner is going to be a better all-around bike, i.e. good on climbs, able to handle tight singletrack, better (more stable) than the Truth on descents (my weakness). The XCE didn't seem to get as bounced around rough terrain as did the Truth. I'm still tweaking the setup on the XCE, so I don't want to include my comments in the review section just yet.
Having said all this, I was happy with my Truth(s). My first one (large '99) was very stable but a little sluggish. My SE (medium) was quicker handling, but too quick for my tastes. This could be due to a combination of the smaller size (wheelbase) and steeper geometry. So far, the XCE seems to be a happy medium. At 170 lbs and not a hard rider, I was surprised that I cracked the chainstay on the SE after about 1½ yrs. But Ellsworth warranted it no questions asked, so I have no complaints as to their customer service. I dented the top tube on my 1st Truth when the brake lever clipped it during a crash. I had a tiny ding (shallower and smaller than a dent) on the downtube of my SE, probably from a rock kicking up. I remember one that was louder than usual; that was probably the culprit.
I don't know what tubing is used on the O2, but Dave T says the XCE is now using "lightly butted" tubing. The O2's tubing is probably closer to the Truth's. As is noted here often, the RacerX/HH 100X are both good bikes. However, coil is not a rear option, as far as I understand. For me, that's a disqualifier. |
| Tire selection | Maren
Apr 15, 2002 1:06 PM | | I just switched from pythons to conti vert pros, and my truth seemed a bit twitchy on the first ride. I think it's because the trail was rock hard, so those big knobs tend to walk. The bike felt really stable to me on the same trail with pythons. But my other bike is a bontrager race light, so that could also explain why the Truth feels stable. It's all relative I guess. |
| Exact same tires on both ... | dogbert
Apr 15, 2002 3:26 PM | | Conti Vertical ProTection 2.3s.
Had Pythons and then Alligators on the Truth, running psi in the low 30's. Tire selection may make a difference in some cases, but I don't think this was one of them. (more likely the longer wheelbase and slacker head tube angle on the 19.5 XCE vs. the 18" Truth SE, although the tt lengths were almost identical, 23.6" vs. 23.5, respectively) |
| oh no | retro slouch
Apr 15, 2002 2:50 PM | | I was afraid you'd say that about the XCE, but that's good for you. I'd like to hear your thoughts after you get in more saddle time. I'll have to wait months for Turner to build more customs and all of these HH pics are making me salivate. Since I've got several months, maybe I can travel to California or somewhere to actually ride a 21" XCE. |
| Midwest? | Roy
Apr 16, 2002 7:15 AM | | My fellow rider has a 21" XCE on order so if you live anywhere near St. Louis, I'm sure I could talk him into letting you test ride it. |
| that's a possibility | retro slouch
Apr 16, 2002 9:08 AM | | I've talked to Charles Coker about a parking lot ride on a 19" owned by a friend of his. Who knows, if he can string it together, I might be blown away and just go ahead and order mine. If for some reason we can't get it worked out, maybe I'll head up there. I live around Dallas but I'll be heading to Arkansas for a couple of canoe trips soon and might just drive the extra distance to Missouri. |
| that's a possibility | Roy
Apr 16, 2002 11:06 AM | | Depending on where in Arkansas you're going, we're only 5-8 hours away. If you do take me up on the offer you'll be fortunate as you can test ride my 19.5" as well as his 21". |
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