|   'Trying' to build the perfect single-pivot trailbike for NH! | RP
Nov 26, 2002 9:12 AM | | Hey all... well I am in search of the perfect trailbike. Yah I know, a daunting task to say the least.
A little history and background first, I just came off a Titus Racer-X that I really never liked and sold. Something about it just didnt 'jive ' with me, which was way dissapointing since I spent 3 months researching and comparing geomitries, part specs, etc. I have a 95' Stumpjumper hardtail that I loved for awhile, but I definately need travel and fun in my next frame. I ride very aggressive xc/freeride in the rocky rooty hills of New Hampshire.. not a racebike, as the Stumpy has been relegated to that. I think with the RX, I wasd looking for a raceable trailbike in the same package, but now my focus is on comfort and strength and just plain fun.
Ok, all that crap out of the way.. my guidelines are a single pivot (no exceptions on that one), low maintenance, bulletproof bike that can be pedaled uphill (obviously not as fast as a hardtail or my RX, but I can deal) and have the capacity for either a Progressive 5th Element or a Romic coil-over in the back. FOX air was ok, but I want something a lot more plush and less service involved.
Anyways, the choices that I've researched so far, which are definately not the only options I have, are as follows:
1) Santa Cruz Heckler -- This bike gets rave, rave reviews and is definately at the top of the heap.
2) Ventana Pantera -- This bike is pretty intriguing to me, I havent done a whole lot of research on this one yet, but it seems bombproof and a pretty good pedaler with a decent shock on the rear.
3) Titus Loco-Moto -- Still a bit gunshy over Titus, but this bike seems to be in the same league as the others, although I've heard that its a FOX specific frame (please coorect me if I'm wrong)
So, not a *huge* list, but a start. If anyone has ANY feedback at all, even if its just a comment, please feel free to let me know. I need some realworld advice here, and everytime in the past I've been sorta unsucessful in getting alot of answers on the boards.
Thanks alot, and hoping to get some direction here...
Peace,
RP |
| may i ask.... | makalu
Nov 26, 2002 9:18 AM | | Why single pivot only??? I will be gearing up to drop some dough on a full squish in the next year, and have been educating myself on 4bars vs single pivot.
I found it interesting that you want single pivot only. Why??
Thanks a bunch |
| Sure! Well my main reasoning is... | RP
Nov 26, 2002 10:05 AM | | ...that I want something to be virtually maintenance-free, and am willing to sacrifice some pedaling efficiency for it. I do a lot of long-distance rides in the middle of nowhere, and having 6+ pivots to worry about is not fun in my book. Now that's just my opinion and the way I percieve it to be, but I already owned a Horst-linked pivoted frame in my Racer-X and the pivots do tend to get pretty grungy after a few water/mud crossings.
The second reason is that I wasn't all that impressed with my RX , definately not enough to justify the price again for that frame. I mean don't get me wrong, it was beautiful eye candy and a great racebike, but for even general trailriding it didn't do what I wanted it to. The newer single pivots, like the Heckler, when set up with a 5th Element are (from what I hear) very comparable to the rest of the pack.
So yah, it's just my own bias at this point... hope that helped!
RP
ps- What frames are you looking at in your search?¿ |
| Thank-you | makalu
Nov 26, 2002 11:43 AM | | For your prompt resonse.
As of now, its a very informal search. Due to not only lack of funds, but the need to spend money elsewhere first, and the fact that no bike fits the criteria I want.
Specifically:
True 4-bar Horst linkage (recently learned)
Un-interupted seatube
Coil rear shock with 4-5 inches of travel
Able to withstand occational 3-4 foot drops (not to flat)
Price range of around $2000, give or take $100 or so
I have still been unable to find this bike, but hopefully, it is out there.
If I was buying today, I would most consider the Santa Cruz Heckler (even though its a SP), the Kona Dawg, or the Rocky Mountain Slayer.
If I was rich, I would be cruising a Turner 5spot, but well.... |
| Thank-you | GR/FR
Nov 26, 2002 12:35 PM | | Another one to consider might be Psycle Werks. Small company, handbuilt frames, and good value. The Wildhare frame (4.5") can be found under $1200. With the right parts kit, you can come close to your price target. The Demon (5.5") is the FR version of the Wildhare, and is around $1600. Uninterrupted seat tube, 4-bar Horst link, not too heavy, it won't break the bank, and you won't see a million of them on your local trail. The Wildhare is a "Hall of Fame" product with lots of reviews. Check them out. I've been riding a Demon for over two years, and the only problem I've had was with the shock (blown Vanilla RC), not the frame, and I ride pretty aggressively. The only weakness I can see is that they use bushings instead of cartridge bearings. Where I live, it's pretty dry, so I've only had to replace them once in 2 1/2 years. Anyway, their website is www.psycle-werks.com.
You'd be hard pressed to find a better complete bike for the buck than a Kona, in fact, I'm considering a 2003 Stinky Dee-Lux myself. I know several Dawg riders, and I hear only raves. Some of the 03 Stinkys are under $2k, and they meet all of your criteria. I'm sure you can find some great deals on used ones too. |
| GR/FR.... | makalu
Nov 26, 2002 7:53 PM | | Thanks so much for the PW suggestion.
Can you e-mail me at peterjh9@yahoo.com
I have a bunch of questions to ask you.
Again, thank-you |
| In addition...Jamis XLT 1.0 | makalu
Nov 26, 2002 8:17 PM | | Looks to be quite a similar frame.
Anyone know what the retail on this new Jamis is???
Only curious, cause the PW has really caught my eye. |
| Azonic Saber | gurp
Nov 26, 2002 3:13 PM | | 5-6" of coil travel. Basically an RFX clone, and its going to be cheap. Also, the Craftworks FR125 fits the bill. |
| Azonic Saber | CTRider
Nov 27, 2002 10:57 AM | | Gurp,
Is there a web site that features the new Azonic Frames?
Any photos I could look at. God knows It'll be damned near impossible to find a dealer carrying these frames/bikes on the East Coast, but they sound like they could be worth investigating. |
| try ridemonkey | gurp
Nov 27, 2002 12:17 PM | | Theyve been posted in there a few times, just do a search for 2003 Azonic. Also, any dealer can get them easily, as they can order the frames directly from the BTI catalog (a catalog that almost every bike shop orders from).
One note about Azonic - They warranty ANYTHING, so no worries there. |
| Sure! Well my main reasoning is... | GR/FR
Nov 26, 2002 12:21 PM | | First I'd like to say that the Racer-X is not a true 4-bar. It does have the Horst link at the stays, but at the shock pivot it uses a rocker link instead of a swing link. This gives it a stiffer, less active feel for XC racing, hence the low leverage ratio (I think it's something like 1.5:1). Another point to note is that the Racer-X only uses cartridge bearings for the main pivot. All of the other pivots are bushings. This has arguable advantages, however, as you already said, they can get grimy quickly given the right conditions.
If you are looking for more of a trailbike/freeride bike, be aware of the disadvantages of the single pivot. I know a lot of people swear by their single-pivot Bullits, but they also swear at the brake jack, particularly over high-frequency bumps (brake bumps, washboards). If you do go the single-pivot route, I would suggest a floating caliper adapter for the rear disc.
If plusher is what you want, you really do want a 4-bar, and there are many out there that have sealed cartridge bearings at all pivots, which are noise- and maintenance-free. |
| Another good SP... | gorse
Nov 27, 2002 1:43 AM | | Been riding a Marin FS for two½ years. Very good pivot placement makes for a fine XC ride. Bearings handle regular mud/water baptisms without complaint, frame is well constructed.
Brake jack isn't that much of an issue, I like way the back end stays squat when braking heavily on the steeps, rather than pitching up giving an added incentive to faceplant. Several multi pivot bikes have the same charteristic too, ie Giant's XTC NRS.
I'd go with the Pantera for some extra strength and the apparently great workmanship. The Heckler looks agricultural in comparison. |
| the old academic debate... who is correct, what is hype? | chezewyz
Nov 26, 2002 3:39 PM | | Makalu and RP, please don't bother yourselves stressing over the age-old question of "4-bar vs monopivot." You cannot make accurate general statements about either design, other than to say that both designs are ways to provide rear suspension.
Monopivots are not the evil, inefficient monsters that certain folks would have you think. A well-designed monopivot (Ells Isis, Ventana Pantera, Santa Cruz superlight/heckler/super 8/bullit) is a whole lot nicer than most hard-core 4-bar loyalists would believe. At the same time, poorly executed 4-bar or multi-link systems ride as poorly as their design/execution.
Most of the holdover arguments against monopivot stem from the oldest form of monopivot -- the URT. The arguments against newer monopivots mostly forget about the importance of pivot location. Pivot location is critical in monopivot bikes. Those with poorly located pivots deliver too much activity to the point where it's really inefficient and interferes with riding enjoyment. Well-designed pivot locations really minimize the potential inefficiencies and interferences.
I prefer monopivots because they are simpler. I've ridden the "best 4-bar design" -- the Horst Link FSR design patented by Specialized and licensed by many companies. I don't think it offers real riding improvement over a top-quality monopivot. The "brake jack" that supposedly plagues monopivots is something I've never experienced.
To sum it up, the execution of the design is much more important than the question of "4-bar vs monopivot." The best way to tell if the execution meets your desires/needs is to ride a bike with that execution. I found that the Ellsworth Isis rides just as well as a 4-bar Specialized FSR Enduro and a 4-bar Titus Switchblade, provided the monopivot's rear shock is properly adjusted.
Don't avoid monopivots simply because of the old wives' tales. There are plenty of good monopivot designs that work extremely well for trail riding, xc riding, xc racing, FR, DH. |
| Finally, the voice of reason! | andy f
Nov 26, 2002 5:00 PM | | Well said, chezewyz.
I just sold a 2002 Specialized Enduro FSR frame and replaced it with a Ventana El Chamuco. It's the fourth full suspension frame i've owned since 1996 but my first single pivot. It's still pretty new but I feel comfortable saying it's the best bike i've ever owned.
Like you said, execution is key. Differences in lateral stiffness are far more noticable on the trail than "4-bar vs. monopivot" differences. Another big issue is frame alignment. It affects how the bike handles and it affects the lifespan of the pivots. Very few bike companies put their full suspension frames on an alignment table after the front and rear have been assembled (guess who does?). |
| hey andy, what's up? | gonzostrike
Nov 27, 2002 2:51 PM | | "chezewyz" was the name I used yesterday & Monday. Someone swiped my handle and registered it with a phony e-mail. Gregg fixed it yesterday and I'm back to the old gonzostrike handle.
thanks for the compliments. |
| I hope you don't eat that stuff | andy f
Nov 27, 2002 5:48 PM | | Stick to riding the sick steeps. It's safer. Especially for an extremely old guy like yerself. |
| Monopivots around years before URT | Quattro
Nov 30, 2002 6:05 PM | | Brake jack is not what monopivots suffer from. It is stiffening
of the suspension when braking.The shock does not compress as
much. Apparently they don't stiffen as much with a disc brakes.
The floating brake was developed to fight this. Braking with
a 4 bar does not stiffen up the suspension very much. |
| Correction: A well designed 4 bar.. | Quattro
Nov 30, 2002 6:16 PM | | will not suffer from the Monopivot suspension stiffening
when braking. But a poorly designed 4 bar(GT LTS)can
have brake jack. |
| actually, monopivot brake "jack" is from ... | derby
Dec 1, 2002 12:57 PM | | As soon as you loose traction it is hard to gain it back completely while braking.
While braking the rear wheel, a monopivot loads the suspension with compressing direction force while there is traction, reducing forward weight shift extension, resulting in reduced rear traction compliance. They just don't let the suspension extend quickly when the rear is unweighted and skid easily but not as easily as a hardtail hitting the brakes. Monopivots also skid somewhat easily on the backside of bumps. In quickly rolling stutter bumps when the tire skids on the backsides of the bumps the suspension rises more freely, then at the trough of the backside it regains traction and compression loads the suspension again before the next bump, and that can produce a jack hammer feeling effect. (My Superlight did that a bit.) It's not as bad as a hardtail. And a disc rear brake reduces the effect a lot due to the greater modulation leverage and the spring effect of the spokes. Speed sensitive damping with lighter springs reduce the rear brake induced suspension compression loading so that lighter rate springs with fast rebound compress and extend over bumps easier.
A well balance floating brake allows the suspension to extend during brake weight shift forward, keeping the rear tire on the ground initially. Then as bumps compress the suspension the floating brake link angles increases compression influence, loading the suspension (actually helping to absorb the bump) to be able to extend quickly again on the backside of bumps. So the tire tracks the ground undulations actively. Disc brakes work even better with floating brake linkage.
But like you say there are poor floating brake suspensions that only extend and resist bump compression, like the LTS and Lawwill.
- ray |
| I can only go by what mine does... | Quattro
Dec 2, 2002 4:47 AM | | It does not extend and it feel as though it does not compress
when braking. It just stiffens and locks out in whatever
position the shock is in before braking. I let off the
brake and the shock compresses and extends again. My GT
actually extended. This was worse than Monopivot stiffening.
In steep technical switchbacks, it was very hard to ride.
And to top it off, my Judy fork would dive as the suspension
extended and weight moved foward. |
| my biased opinion | ringlord
Nov 26, 2002 10:04 AM | | My vote is for the Pantera, 6 month owner without a single complaint. This bike performs awesome in any terrain and it is strong as hell. I am a 200lb. aggressive rider and have put a lot of hard miles on it. More, add the new "superlink" to it and get additional lateral stiffness. (the superlink comes stock on the chamuco but can be added to the pantera)
Haven't tried the SC heckler but then again I don't need to ;)
P.S. Give Sherwood at ventana a call or contact ventanarama on this board for more advice. Good luck. |
| A few quick questions for you... | RP
Nov 26, 2002 10:10 AM | | Congrats on the beautiful frame by the way, you must be pretty jazzed!! :)
First off, I wasn't aware that the 'superlink' could be used on that frameset.. now does it really make a difference? Seemed as though the rear end on the Pantera was pretty solid already.
Do you miss not having a useable waterbottle cage for a bottle or a light battery?
What rear shock are you running, and is there an option for either the 5th Element or Romic?
Do you have any pics? I've got a few here @ work, but I like to get a pretty good idea of other peoples setups.
Thanks in advance!!!
Peace,
RP |
| A few quick questions for you... | CTRider
Nov 26, 2002 10:15 AM | | RP, there is someone on the east coast looking to sell a Pantera with a Romic shock in the classifieds section. I think for around $1800 or so for frame and shock and $1400 or so for frame, Romic, and I believe a Fox fork up front.
Just in case you were interested. And it does answer your question about the Pantera's ability to handle a Romic. |
| A few quick questions for you... | andy f
Nov 26, 2002 10:21 AM | | I don't know how much difference the superlink makes. I know my Chamuco is super stiff and the during the short time I rode the Pantera (without the superlink) it felt fine without it. I think it's a fairly pricey upgrade.
There is a waterbottle mount under the downtube. I wouldn't put a waterbottle down there but with the addition of a velcro strap, it's fine for a battery.
You can order the Pantera with a Romic but I don't believe Progressive has shorter stroke 5th Element shocks for sale yet. If you want one on a 4" travel bike, you may have to wait. |
| A few quick answers... | ringlord
Nov 26, 2002 10:30 AM | | RP,
The frame itself is very stiff. The main advantage of the superlink is to remove any extra flex from where the rear shock attaches to the swingarm. This is an issue with most SP frames as the design allows the rear shock to be an overall "part" of the frame's structure. With the link added you eliminate that SP disadvantage. Sorry if this might be confusing. Others on the board might explain it better.
I wear a camelback so water is not an issue. I night ride a lot and the battery location is fine under the downtube.
I have both the stock fox air and a romic coil. They both feel great on the frame. I generally run the air to keep the bike snappy. Most of my trails are packed, tight singletrack. If I travel to rocky or rooty trails I will throw on the romic.
I will get some pics on the board soon as I have been wanting to for a while. Essentially my set up is "trusty trail bike":
z1 bomber, lx/xt drivetrain, king hubs/rhino lite rims, avid discs, etc.
Peace. |
| A few quick answers... | CTRider
Nov 26, 2002 10:36 AM | | Ringlord,
Please do post the pictures! Ballpark how much did your build up run you? Where did you purchase the frame?
Finding Ventanas and other small company frames here on the East Coast isn't an easy task. |
| A few quick answers... | ringlord
Nov 26, 2002 11:01 AM | | CTrider,
A good friend of mine owns a bike shop so we just ordered the pantera directly from sherwood. i get my stuff at cost so i could not give you an accurate figure on the build up. ventanarama should be able to hook you up with some numbers. if i wasn't hooked up well with my lbs i would get a ventana through him myself.
I will get some pics soon. |
| I'm in Connecticut and on a similar quest | CTRider
Nov 26, 2002 10:08 AM | | Hey RP,
I'm in CT and on a similar quest for a FS "Trail Bike."
I'm looking into the Superlight, Heckler, Pantera, and maybe even a Marin QUAD FS or TARA rig or a LocoMoto (but I'm not sure if adjustable travel is all it's cracked up to be).
Another company to look into (and a CT-based company at that) is NthDegree. http://www.nthdegreeusa.com
This is a new company started by Mario Galasso, formerly of Cannondale fame. He's got his own line of single pivot rigs and also a new line of matching forks. Currently he is offering an XC-F which gets something like 4" in the rear and the Bringit, which I believe offers at least 5" in the rear if not more. I think the XC-F is going for $1200 or so as a frame and the Bringit runs around $1500 or so.
I know they are taking orders now and establishing dealership relationships. Perhaps it could be a brand to add to your list and you could even stay with a New England based company to boot.
I'm very interested in demoing an XC-F and hope to be able to do so in the not too distant future. I'd love to be able to demo a Pantera....but I can't find a close dealer who carries Ventana...........same for Titus for that matter.
Good luck on your quest for the perfect New England Trail bike! |
| Single Pivots Not Necessarily Lower Maintenance | meimine
Nov 26, 2002 10:44 AM | | I've owned one single pivot bike (Santa Cruz Superlight) and two 4 bar bikes (Ellsworth Truth and Ellsworth Id). Here is my experience with maintenance:
Ellsworth Rear Suspension Maintenance: Nada. Zip. Nothing.
Santa Cruz Rear Suspension Maintenance: In fifteen months, four replaced bushings, one replaced swingarm, one seal for a leaky airshock
Your mileage may vary, but there is no way that I would characterize single pivots as lower maintenance. The exact opposite was true in my experience. I am sure that much depends on the manufacturer. To me, it is obvious that Ellsworth makes far superior frames as compared the offerings of Santa Cruz. |
| Not necessarily true. Based on a quick scan of ..... | SC Rob
Nov 26, 2002 10:59 AM | | the MTBR message boards, Ellsworth frames are reported to fail more often than Santa Cruz frames. Granted, I'm sure that they are actually pretty close in failure rates, but more people will complain with the Ellsworth due to the inflated cost of the frames. Funny because both companies did use (and may still) the same company to build the frames. |
| How about experience? | meimine
Nov 26, 2002 11:13 AM | | Ummmm... based on a scan of the message boards? Well, I am speaking of my actual experience, not a biased impression of what other people spout anonymously on an Internet message board. Based on my actual experience on both brands of bikes, Ellsworth bikes cost more because they are built better and are a better value.
But back to the original post... the myth of single pivot bikes as requiring lower maintenance is just that: a myth. Perhaps it was true before the use of sealed pivot bearings, but certainly not now. |
| How about experience? | SC Rob
Nov 26, 2002 1:32 PM | | Like I said, it was a scan of the message boards and isn't based on my experience. As far as the myth that SP is less maintenance than 4-bar, it's true in our neck of the woods. Three of the guys in our group (four including me) have SP bikes (2 Santa Cruz, 1 Proflex 5000 and one Isis) and three are on 4-bar setups (2 FSRs, 1 Id).
Of all the bikes, the only bike that has had issues is one of the FSR which has developed slop in the pivots. I would think that 6+ pivots are more likely to cause problems than the two on an SP.
The only issues I have heard regarding the problems with the SC were a crappy batch of shock bushings. Sounds like you did have a bum deal with your Santa Cruz which is suprising. I can guarantee that you would have better customer service with SC then Ellsworth (again - from the message board). |
| How about experience? | pixelninja
Nov 26, 2002 2:45 PM | | Rob SC - You can GUARANTEE that SC has better customer service than Ellsworth? Based, yet again, on second hand knowledge from a message board?
My experience so far with Ellsworth customer service is this:
First, one week after I picked up my Isis from the LBS, an Ellsworth customer service rep called me at home, just to see if everything went ok with the build. Can you tell me any other bike manufacturer that does that?
Second, I've emailed them several times, questioning them about my warranty, and they've replied within the hour EVERY time.
Third, the guy here who recently had his Isis swingarm break told me that Ellsworth is replacing his frame for him, free of charge.
SC Rob - me thinks that you need to start putting less stock into what anonymous people say on a web message board.
RP - If you're looking for a single pivot bike for aggresive XC, from my personal experience, I'd recommend the Ellsworth Isis. My personal experience has been excellent, and even tho some people have had swingarm breakage problems, I still ride mine like a bat outta hell. I'm very pleased with my purchase. I was also looking at the Pantera, but chose the Ells for 2 reasons: 1) frame weights .25 lbs less and 2) Theres an Ells dealer 10 minutes from my house. I like supporting my LBS. |
| Good god man! "Ellsworth" and "value" in the same sentence? | XJT
Nov 27, 2002 8:14 AM | | Don't be a dumb ass. |
| Loco doesn't need a Fox | woodyak
Nov 26, 2002 10:50 AM | | I ride a Loco with a Stratos Helix and I like it much better than the Float R that it came with. The Float was adequate but I ended up blowing it out on too many drops. The Stratos works great because it's a rising rate coil shock, which is what this bike was designed for. I looked at Romic and 5th Element shocks as well but they haven't certified a fit for my XS frame yet so i didn't want to risk it.
I'm from the Boston area so I ride the same conditions that you do. The Loco is an excellent trail bike for this area. The suspension is very active and the frame is very stiff. It is in excellent climber even when using the maximum travel. I prefer the Titus over your other selections because the frame is a good bit lighter and you can change the rear travel from 4 to 4.75 inches. The bike works great with a 4" fork. I'd like to try it with a 5" fork but I don't have the dough for it.
I don't have any experience with the Pantera. I have bounced around on the Heckler and it seems like a fun bike. I've heard that some forks will scrape the frame when the handlebars are turned perpendicular to the frame. |
| Get the Ventana ... | dogbert
Nov 26, 2002 11:15 AM | | they're pretty rare on the east coast so you'll probably be the only kid on your block that owns one.
You've already owned a Titus, so try something different. The Pantera should climb a little better than the Loco, too.
I test rode a Heckler a few years back (before the model went on hiatus for a short while) and a SuperLight, but wasn't crazy about either.
If I were ever going to buy a single-pivot, the Pantera would top my list ... unless Turner ever came out with his own xc version.
biased opinion (facts optional) |
| Get the Ventana ... | CTRider
Nov 26, 2002 11:25 AM | | Can you elaborate on why the Pantera should climb better than the Titus? |
| Pivot location ... (on paper, at least) ... | dogbert
Nov 27, 2002 6:36 AM | | A lot of other factors should be considered, including tire option, chainstay length, etc., the most important of which is the rider, of course. |
| Handles... | Other RP
Nov 26, 2002 11:33 AM | | Dude,
I've been posting under the RP handle as well. The strange thing is I raced a `95 M2 Stumpjumper before a Titus RacerX. I also have a `01 Switchblade. In my case I still love the RacerX and love to ride it. The Switchblade is more of a play bike, but like you I'm starting to want the plushness and peace of mind of a rear coil, the simplicity of a single pivot and an un-interrupted seattube. I still haven't decided weather to lean toward trail bikes or DH/Freeride bikes. My trail list is Heckler and Pantera, while my FR/DH list is Bullit, Yeti ASX and El Chamuco. After riding the lifts this season the Bullit is looking like the top dog.
As for your situation I'd go Heckler. The Superlight continues to be the first bike I recommend to my XC riding buddies. Santa Cruz is able to deliver a lot of bike for a decent price. The Pantera is the top for workmanship but the 5th is hard to pass up and I'd go with the Pantera over the Loco.
Now back to the handles ... it's a bit confusing since we sound like the same person. Since I'm on the West Coast and you're on the the east, maybe ERP and West WRP ... later ;) |
| Handles... | Rob in NH
Nov 26, 2002 11:56 AM | | LOL well that is pretty damn weird.... I just used the handle cause it's my initials and I was just too lazy to find something creative :-) Anyways, no need to change... she's all yours my man.
Thanks for the advice though.. I'm just soaking in all the tips at the moment, as much as I can sneak in during work hours anyways. I have had my eye almost exclusively on the Heckler for the last month, but man that Pantera is a sexy ride. I still need to run the geometry on both the frames to see where I stand (so to speak), but it may come down to the 5th or the Romic in the end.
Peace,
Rob
ps- Still riding and racing my 95' Stumpy... I just can't kill that damn bike! |
| Heckler - and a note on pivot construction | gurp
Nov 26, 2002 3:07 PM | | Id say the Heckler is your best bet. They have a rental fleet of them at Downieville, and they've been getting rave reviews there. The 5th element shock makes a huge difference in the pedaling and handling charateristics of single pivot bikes (Ive done alot of riding on bullits with and without it, the Fox equipped ones fall way short), and could make the SC top the list on that alone. They're also cheap, they have alot of dealers - support and parts are easily available almost anywhere, carry a good warranty, and went through alot of team testing perfecting the design.
That being said-
How the pivots are built makes a big difference in whether or not they develop any nasty habits. So a single pivot will not necessarily be less maintenance. Also, the differnce between a horst link and a non horst link bike is alot less noticable in the shorter travel ranges (like your racerx). The Horst link really does make a big difference in longer travel situations. |
| Loco thoughts | GeoffW
Nov 26, 2002 6:29 PM | | I had a Loco for this season. Bike was great. I was amazed at that lack of attention the single pivot needed. What I'm getting at here, is I couldn't find a real ride difference between the Loco and a FSR design. I never had any chain tightening or pedal kickback or any other goofy stuff like that. Everything ran well in every gear. The Pivot is very well placed on the Loco. THat being said, it can be configured in a few different ways, more so than the Heckler I feel. The Loco has adjustable travel, which I found made quite a differece. The lower travel settings do feel racier, while the Longer travel settings feel more plush. I was running a Float R on it the majority of the time and it felt good. I did run a Romic on it for a couple days and the bike rode very interesting. It handled everything better, bob, what bob?, I was told by Titus not to put a coil on it because the design is a falling rate design. But I found it worked really well. If I had the choice I would have stuffed the Romic in there and kept it. Unfortunately my buddy remembered he lent it to me :( The Romic was from a Joker if it matters. I don't have to educate you on teh finer things of a Titus. That being said, Travis tells me the Front end of a Loco is as stiff as a Quasi.
I was looking at a Heckler, you've got a tough choice man. To me, it's more of a choice between the Loco and Heckler. I don't think 4" is enough considering the lighter freeride duty your looking at. If you could find the Loco with a Romic or 5th element for the same price as a Heckler, I think you'd have to flip a coin. |
| How about the new Specialized Big Hit or one of the many Giant.. | DeeEight
Nov 27, 2002 12:59 AM | | warp/warp-variants produced for other brands in the giant factory. Specialized has a cheap ($880 MSRP) single-pivot bike similar to the
Bullit in the line up this year. Probably made in the Kinesis factory
alongside the Weyless 67's. Alternatively a Giant Warp DS1 or Brodie Enduro/stroker/thumper/diablo (same frame, different parts). Technically the Warp's and those brodies are the same basic bike. They're both made in the giant factory, just Brodie specifies a different shaped front end and different tubeset in front. The rear
triangles/pivots are all the same. Shock mount location varies slightly (Brodie's have 138mm rear travel, warp's are adjustable for 102 or 127mm). Also the Specialized HardRock Uno and one of the 2003
Oryx models are also spinoffs of the Warp platform, again made by Giant.
There's a review of the 2003 Warp DS1 in the latest issue of Mountain
Biking magazine. |
| Specialized Big Hit looks like a bargain FR/DH bike | derby
Nov 27, 2002 10:46 AM | | Specialized Big Hit looks like a bargain Freeride/Downhill bike but not a trail bike that could climb though rocks well with such slack angles and low BB (under 13 inches). Sounds like a great chairlift/shuttle bike. If the BB could be adjusted up to about an inch higher it would probably serve both purposes fairly well.
What do you think?
- ray |
| BB on the BigHit is well over 13" | gurp
Nov 27, 2002 10:50 AM | | I know a few guys that use it as a trailbike, its about the same in weight as a Quasi or SLX, and it works fine if youve got strong legs. |
| D8 is referring to '03 single pivot (12.9 inch BB). nm | derby
Nov 27, 2002 11:37 AM | | |
| Tracer & Uzzi SLX are great NE trailbikes | Adman
Jan 8, 2003 9:37 AM | | We're talkin' Fort Rock, Bear Brook, Massabesic (more on Tracer), all over eastern MA & VT. I ride mostly on my Uzzi & hop on the Tracer for an occasional epic/race & it feels great! (heavy bikes are great training)
-Adam |
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