|   Kona Dawg 4" or Jamis XLT 5" | Chas Spaz
Mar 8, 2003 1:30 PM | | I don't freeride, but am a hardcore NorthEast rider (lots of rocks and roots) and don't go off any drop more that 3 ft. I'm 6'1" and 210 lbs looking at getting a new bike in the low $2k range. My short list is the Kona Dawg Delux or the Jamis XLT 2.0.
Thought the Kona was going to be the one, but everyone seems to be coming out with 5" of travel while the Kona has 4". Don't know if I need 5", but I think I would rather have more than less. I'm also worried about the Jamis, since it only uses sealed bearings at the main pivot and at the top pivot of the swing link. All the other pivots use bushings and I've read a lot of riders complain about durability.
Though they are both 4-bar, the Kona does not use a Horst Link, but the piviot locations look like they would minimize much of the BOB and with DISC brakes mounted as they are brake jack should be minimal.
There's still a lot of snow here so I haven't had a chance to demo either bike and am looking for any comments from anyone who has ridden either bike.
Thanks,
Chas |
| Give 'em both a try if you can...both nice bikes...in addition | CTRider
Mar 8, 2003 1:58 PM | | if it's within your budget, have a look at a Balfa Belair or a Balfa 2Step (the freeride version). I know there are some Boston based shops carrying Balfa's these days and they are very nice bikes for the buck and IMO they seem to be built with east coast riding in mind.
The two you have chosen to date are both pretty impressive rides as well. I may give Kona the edge for reliability/customer service and I'm not sure if you'll notice that one inch of travel increase that you would get from the Jamis, but I may be wrong. The Dawg Deluxe is definitely the right Kona to be looking at out of the three Dawg models for this year that's for sure.
Good luck and have fun!
And btw, whereabouts in the Northeast?
Take care,
Mark |
| Give 'em both a try if you can...both nice bikes...in addition | Chas
Mar 8, 2003 2:16 PM | | I'm from Southington, CT and spend a lot of time riding the W. Hartford MDC Reservoir (slight technical with lots of fallen trees, a few good log ramps/piles, mini slick rock section, lots of twisty rocky single track about a 12 mile outer loop).
Unfortunately, I gained a good winter "coat" this year that I need to lose. I figure a new bike would be good motivation.
I still think the Kona is more bombproof, but damn the parts spec on those Jamis. If you just start to addup the retail of the parts these bikes should cost $500 to $1000 more. The part of me that wants the biggest toy is pushing for the 5" of travel, but to be honest I think 4" should be fine and should be easier to climb with.
One other thing I wonder about is the reliability of air shocks for a 200+ # guy. Maybe I should look at the Jamis XLT 1 with the Vanilla fork and shock. Or just go back on the high protein diet and loose 20 #'s agian and start to ride that dusty trainer while the snow melts.
Chas |
| I will be riding the Res a lot this year... | CTRider
Mar 8, 2003 2:23 PM | | Is there a good LBS near you that carries both Jamis and Kona?
If not, I highly recommend paying a visit to Pig Iron Sports in Glastonbury as carry Kona, Jamis, DeVinci, K2 and Balfa! Ask for Brian Donaghue, he's a great guy and will give you the answers you seek in a straight up friendly manner.
http://www.pigironsports.com
Good luck and perhaps I'll see you at the Reservoir this season. I'll be the guy riding the Velvet Blue Balfa Belair!
Take care,
Mark |
| Thanks...Riding the Res | Chas
Mar 8, 2003 2:38 PM | | Thanks,
Didn't know about Pig Iron I'll pay them a visit.
What made you choose Balfa? I recognise the name from various MT Bike Mags. I tried to visit thier site, but had no luck (may be all the firewall/trojan/virus/pop-up/java filters I run). Couldn't find many reviews here.
Chas |
| Pig Iron is a great shop.... | CTRider
Mar 8, 2003 2:47 PM | | I test rode a whole slew of FS rigs and in the end the Belair was the best fitting bike and it was just "the ride" once I was able to give one a test ride!
http://www.balfa.com they are a small company out of Montreal that specializes in DH and FR rigs but has been slowly branching out into the trail bike segment with the Belair and they also have a do it all hardtail called the Minuteman.
Their best known bike is the DH rig - the BB7.
High quality bikes from Quebec!
Good luck on your FS bike search!!
Mark |
| OMFG, Mark, you are BUYING a bike? | Tscheezy
Mar 8, 2003 11:35 PM | | Wow, congratulations (and I apologize for just figuring this out). I was starting to think you were a professoinal tester. Good for you. After your exhaustive research, you will be quite the marketing tool for Balfa. I can see the opening spread in MBA now:
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Great stuff. Post up some nice shots when you get it (when do you get it anyway?). It will be nice to have some real variety on the board.
Good on ya,
tscheezy |
| Yep! A Belair! And I hope to have it by the end of the week! | CTRider
Mar 9, 2003 8:05 AM | | Tscheezy,
Thanks for the congrats and the funny Ad you put up there! Good Stuff! LOL
I'm stoked about the Belair as it's going to work so well for me. I'm very impressed with Balfa! Great bikes and great people who build em and stand behind em!
It's funny you mentioned me as a marketing tool for Balfa.....shoot me an email and I'll explain more.
Take care and have fun riding on Kodiak Island!
Mark |
| Sure, what's your email address? | Tscheezy
Mar 9, 2003 10:27 AM | | or just send me one: tscheezy AT yahoo.com
tscheezy |
| Tscheezy, I just finished sending you an email! (nm) | CTRider
Mar 9, 2003 11:04 AM | | |
| LOL!!! Good One Tscheezy! | moff_quigley
Mar 9, 2003 5:29 PM | | Perhaps you should send that to Balfa. Maybe they'll give you a job in the "marketing dept". WOW! I cannot believe that Mark finally chose a ride. Sounds sweet, Mark, be sure to post some pics for us.
Later,
Travis |
| Thanks Travis! I'm stoked! | CTRider
Mar 9, 2003 6:25 PM | | And I may use a modified version of Tscheezy's slogan, since I'm going to be repping for Balfa here in Connecticut!
Yep.....it's a long story but true.
I was going to order the Belair no matter what, but when I informed Mark Gottlieb, the owner of Vulgar Equipment, http://www.vulgarequipment.com he said his shop was literally right down the road from the Balfa headquarters. I've been repping for Vulgar here in CT for about 4 months now - great product - great MTB clothing.
So Mark placed a call on my behalf to the folks at Balfa about the Belair - he's a super cool guy and a real true hard core dedicated MTBer - rides a Spot Brand Fully Rigid Single speed - to Balfa. Turns out they were looking for a Connecticut Based Sales Rep. Mark told Stephane Amyot about the work I was doing for him with Vulgar Equipment and low and behold they offered me a sales rep gig for the state of CT!
I was going to go with the Belair no matter what since once I rode it I just knew it was the right bike for me at this time! But this just adds to the excitement!
So it looks as though in addition to riding the crap out of the Belair this season, I'll also be travelling around with a complete demo bike from Balfa as well (Most likely a 2Step or a 2Step DH!).
Amazing isn't it?
I guess with all the crap my wife has pulled on me over the last several months, it's only fair that some thing start going my way for a change right!
So if you see me on the trails somewhere, please do not hesitate to ask for a Balfa Demo ride because I'll most likely have the demo bike along with me on rides in addition to my Belair!!
Slainte everyone!
Mark |
| so.... what color bike are you buying? | puffy
Mar 10, 2003 3:25 PM | | congrats on your decision!
one thing troubles me tho..."its the right bike for me at this time".
sounds like a loop hole but anbyway, enjoy!
puff
p.s. get me a minuteman... always liked that bike. |
| Puff, looks like it'll be a Velvet Blue Belair for me | CTRider
Mar 10, 2003 3:34 PM | | and what I meant was that hopefully my skills will improve this season and next and eventually I'll be riding a 2Step or something else along side the Belair, because the Belair is built so strong that I think the frame will last for a long long long time!
And I agree with you the Minuteman is a sweet rig!!! |
| On air shocks... | næstep
Mar 8, 2003 2:37 PM | | I've been hitting the scale at about 235 for the past few years, and I've been on air suspension the whole time. Haven't tried any Fox products, but I've been on Eko Sport TA Carts installed in Judy's and White Brothers forks, on a Manitou X-Vert Air, and on Cane Creek AD10 and AD12 shocks.
My riding sounds pretty similar to yours bang around XC but no drop-in freeride shenanigans. Zero trouble with any of these components.
I've got a 5" travel Hollowpoint on the way soon, and need to decide if I stick with the proven AD12 that I can rebuild at home, or if I go for the new Fox AVA that comes with the bike. I can't vouch for Fox shocks specifically, but in general air shocks have stood up to my challenge.
næstep |
| On air shocks... | Chas
Mar 8, 2003 2:46 PM | | I'm coming from a hardtail (Redline aftermarket) with a Zokes Atom Bomb and have always been a believer of coil springs for two reasons. first they do ride like butter and second I'm lazy about cleaning and maintaining my bike and springs are low maintenance. So I guess I'm just a little leary of air. The only air I've ever had a chance of riding (other that a parking lot) has been the old Rox Shock Mag21 and the Sid. I'm sure that this is not a fair comparison what with everyone putting Fox Floats front and rear (there must be something to them) on all the new bikes.
Chas |
| Feel safe in trying them out... | næstep
Mar 8, 2003 2:53 PM | | Yeah, they've gotten more responsive over the last few years, and I suppose more dependable as well. I'm pretty good about maintenance, but I don't baby my air shocks or pay and particular attention to them other than occassional after-ride wipe down and periodic pressure check no frequent disassembly or cleaning required.
I moved away from coils because of tunability. I've found air shocks to be much more responsive to adjustment with just a 5 or 10 psi pressure change, as opposed to screwing around with coils. They both have unique advantages, difficult to say one type is better than the other for a mostly XC application.
næstep |
| I prefer coil over | Jaybo
Mar 8, 2003 3:01 PM | | I believe that once you get your coil over tuned with the right spring you are set. You never have to check the air. It is done. In my opinion, I think the only thing air shocks do better then coil is to be lighter. However, if you ride a less then efficient FS bike you will find an air shock is touch less prone to bob because it doesn't move as freely.
jay |
| Feel safe in trying them out... | Chas
Mar 8, 2003 3:04 PM | | You mentioned the one thing that does greatly attact me to air...adjustability. Every bike appears to be sprung for a 150 # rider. Buying a bike with air means I wont have to go hunt down stiffer springs or guess what spring rate I need. At 235#'s do you have to fill your forks/shocks near the maximum, or is there capacity to spare?
Chas |
| Haven't maxed one yet... | næstep
Mar 8, 2003 4:09 PM | | I've usually got capacity to spare. If I had to guess, I'm usually maybe 20psi shy of the max.
It's going to vary from shock to shock and bike to bike. For instance, the 5" travel on the Hollowpoint is going to give me a 3.3:1 travel ratio. Compared to the 2.5:1 on my NRS or 2:1 on my Joshua before that, in theory I'm going to tax that shock pretty heavily.
But the flip side is that the NRS shock is run at full extension/zero sag. The Hollowpoint needs about an inch of sag, so that should bring it back down into the pressure range of the NRS.
Jaybo's got an excellent point that once a coil is set up, you won't touch it again. I'd see things from his perspective if my perception was that air shocks introduce stiction into my system or require lots of maintenance. Compared to a good coil, a good air shock presumably displays more stiction and obviously does requrire a little more TLC, but it's not to the point where I notice my air shocks are very smooth performers and I spend very little time on maintaining them.
My Cane Creek rears have adjustable pressure, volume, rebound and compression allowing for nearly limitless tunability, and the rebuild process on these (should you need it) is literally a 30 minute kitchen table type of job with a simple $15 seal kit. I just can't argue with that.
næstep |
| Feel safe in trying them out... | fonseca
Mar 9, 2003 5:48 PM | | I agree completely. I have moved from coil to air because air is so much more tuneable. I have spent $20-60 per spring to get the correct weight, sometimes having to buy several springs, and most of the time it still feels like a compromise on both fork and shock, with the spring being slightly too firm or too soft. And preload, when available on the fork, can't always compensate. Past coil shocks I have owned only allow a few turns of preload before you're supposed to go to a heavier spring too.
That's never a problem with air. I think the biggest advantage is being able to add or remove a few psi before a ride, depending on what kind of terrain I will be riding (big hits vs lots of roots and rocks), and what kind of speeds I will be going on the trail of the day. Air shocks still suffer from a bad rep from years back imo, when they were leak-prone and not as reliable as coil.
Fons |
| Info on the Hollowpoint at www.hcor.net | poser
Mar 8, 2003 4:05 PM | | The Hollowpoint is a similar bike. It has gotten a lot of splash on MTBR and at www.hcor.net forum. Choose the forum on Iron horse bikes. Iron Horse is located on Long Island so the manufacture is close to you, although most buy the bike at Supergo. I have never ridden one and this is not a recommendation, just worth investigating. |
| Go Jamis | Jaybo
Mar 8, 2003 6:41 PM | | A British mountain bike magazine did a review on the Dawg. They said it was a very active bike that was a much better descender then a climber. They are totally sold on the Horst link deal. They said the Dawg squated lowering the bike and putting the bike in a poor climging position. They also cited that it more reactive to pedaling and braking. Did you know Turner was involved in some of the design of the earlier Kona FS bikes? I just think the Jamis has a better parts kit and a better design then the Kona. Ride 'em and see what you like, if possible. |
| Go Jamis | Caserider
Mar 9, 2003 3:43 AM | | Just took a look at the new XLT 1.0 at Pig Iron. Looks sweet. Only rode it indoors, but the fit was perfect for me. I'm looking at the XLT, Enduro Comp and Superlight R. Not sure if the Superlight with 4 " of travel and less active suspension will be best bet. SC has a great rep for building top notch reliable rigs. Solid, simple and made in the USA. That has been in the back of my mind during this search. Will be test riding one from Vernon cycle today. Just in the parking lot though. No trails in CT to ride just yet.
ps: I ride the W. Htfd. res. also. My office is in Farmington. Can't wait for spring. |
| Case, If you go SC, I highly recommend going through Hilltop | CTRider
Mar 9, 2003 6:47 AM | | Ski and Bike in Maine. http://www.hilltopskibike.net over going to Vernon Cycle....or if you want to stick with a local bike shop, I highly recommend the Cutting Edge in Berlin (they carry SC, Kona, and Jamis rigs as well)http://www.thecuttingedgeinc.com
A buddy of mine bought a Superlight from Vernon last June and they treated him like crap...gave him one price quote upon the order and then when he picked up the bike they wanted to charge him $300 more than the original quote!! If you go to Vernon, go to test ride only!! This winter he ordered a Bullit from the boys up in Maine and he got a great price and was treated right before, during and after the sale.
Are you a NEMBA member? http://www.nemba.org IF not, I highly recommend joining. $20 to join and you get a quarterly publication and many shops give member discount, including the guys up in Maine at Hilltop! They post on this board often as Esquire and now Innocent Bystander. Cool guys who will treat you right.
I work in Farmington at the UConn Health Center! Shoot me an email sometime at mmcgrath@foundation.uconn.edu
Good luck!
Mark |
| Go Jamis | Caserider
Mar 9, 2003 5:22 AM | | Just took a look at the new XLT 1.0 at Pig Iron. Looks sweet. Only rode it indoors, but the fit was perfect for me. I'm looking at the XLT, Enduro Comp and Superlight R. Not sure if the Superlight with 4 " of travel and less active suspension will be best bet. SC has a great rep for building top notch reliable rigs. Solid, simple and made in the USA. That has been in the back of my mind during this search. Will be test riding one from Vernon cycle today. Just in the parking lot though. No trails in CT to ride just yet.
ps: I ride the W. Htfd. res. also. My office is in Farmington. Can't wait for spring. |
| Watch out for the Enduro | Chas
Mar 10, 2003 4:56 PM | | Watch out for the Specialized Enduro. I've seen about a half dozen Specialized FSR bikes with broken seatstays or chainstays. The Enduro is suppose to be more rugged but I wouldn't trust it after what I've seen and talking to the guys who owned the FSRs.
I could never buy a superlight unless I was looking to race. I remember they use to have a rider weight limit of 180 or 190 lbs and I'm 210. I think the Heckler is a much better bike and can still be built up light.
I agree with CTRider try the Cutting Edge. The owner, Craig, is a cool guy. The store is a combination skateboard/snowboard/Mt Bike shop. Small business with great attention to each customer.
Didn't know he started carrying Jamis.
Chas |
| Ask for Craig or Jay at Cutting Edge......Jay is the MTB guy | CTRider
Mar 10, 2003 5:08 PM | | Very cool guy who knows his stuff and wil treat you well.
I think this may be year two for them with Jamis.
I know they have some complete XLT 2.0s in stock and the last time I visited they had some XLT 1.0s but Jamis hadn't included the Fox Forks with the shipment! Go figure!
Chas, where do you live again? Work? Ride?
Cheers!
Mark |
| Where I ride | Chas
Mar 10, 2003 6:32 PM | | I live in Southington, work in E. Hartford, near the Manchester line, so the W. Hartfor Res is where I ride since it is on the way home from work.
Need to make an effort to ride more this year. This past year, work has sucked up all my time. I've gotten fat and lazy, plus I'm turning 40 this year so I'm starting to freak out.
Never was a fast rider, except for downhills, or climber but have gotten more and more hooked on the technical riding (minus the big drops). I think I'm too old to start dropping now!!
That's why I'm looking at the more durable 4"-5" bikes. Plus the old Alum hardtail is starting to beat the hell out of me and hold me back. I just worry about climbing since I'm such a weak slow ass now.
Chas |
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