|   Ventana X-5 | Innocent Bystander
Sep 17, 2003 7:27 AM | | I read Larry's blurb about a new trail bike from Ventana, so I called Sherwood to see what was up.
Here is a basic run down....
- X-frame main frame (similar to Chamuco and Pantera)
- 5" of rear travel.
- Designed around a 5" fork to yield a 70 degree head angle.
- Head tube gussetted like a Salty. Sherwood said dual crown not a problem.
- Frames will be powdercoated and you get 5 color selections.
- Price undetermined, but will have something VERY soon.
- They will be ready to ship after Interbike.
- We hope to get a picture from them in the next week and will post it on our site.
I am trying to collect all of this info and put it on our new website in the "News" section... but there is so much coming out this year it is hard to keep up with the rumors. This one is for real though folks.
Don
http://www.boutiquebikes.com |
| Mono or 4-bar? | The Squeaky Wheel
Sep 17, 2003 7:44 AM | | Is it a monopivot which will fill the gap between El Chamuco & Pantera or a 4-bar ala El Salty?
Squeak |
| Oops, forgot to mention that.. | Innocent Bystander
Sep 17, 2003 7:51 AM | | It will have the same rear triangle as the Salty (seat stay pivot, quad bearings), with 5" rockers and a Romic shock. Sort of a cross between the 2 designs that they presently have. He built a few of them as custom jobs for folks who wanted the Salty design with the Pantera standover.
Teresa told me that she ran out of Spanish names... and the bike needed a name, so X-5 it was. |
| "Teresa told me that she ran out of Spanish names... " | Spiff
Sep 18, 2003 3:55 PM | | OH ! c'mon !
what about
"Ruta Cinco" or
...on a second thought, nevermind...
Gui |
| LOL... There are plenty of them | Innocent Bystander
Sep 19, 2003 5:07 AM | | And she came up with a KILLER name for the new DH bike, the El Cuervo.
Don
http://www.boutiquebikes.com |
| That bike sounds sweeet... | WarrGuru
Sep 17, 2003 9:21 AM | | I can't wait until you have more info......price...pics...etc.
Thanks for the update!!!! |
| Scoop! I've got pics. | Tscheezy
Sep 17, 2003 9:38 AM | | Well, sorta. Here is what it will likely look like:
A Pantera style front triangle with an El Salt rear. This is a custom done for mtpisgah. The Passion post is here.
That thing looks just sweet!
tscheezy
PS Sorry Larry, I guess the cat is out of the bag. |
| Dude-man! | nobody special
Sep 17, 2003 9:47 AM | | I think I just found my new bike. |
| Damn........thats impressive............ | esquire
Sep 17, 2003 9:57 AM | | I love that look, and hope it performs as well as it looks. Can we get a review from Pisgah?
Esq.
www.boutiquebikes.com |
| That color hurts my eyes... | The Squeaky Wheel
Sep 17, 2003 9:58 AM | | otherwise it's a cool looking bike. I'd stick with the stock Ventana colors which are awesome in their own right.
I'm not sure what void that bike fills. El Salty is a very stiff & abuse worthy bike in its current incarnation. I guess this one is more built for hucking & such. Will Sherwood discontinue El Salty in favor of the new design? What's the weight gain? Doesn't seem right to get a beefier frame just to put a single-crown air shock on it.
Sherwood should keep the spanish name thing going. I suggest the "Ay Caramba."
Squeak |
| I vote for a spanish name....how about... | Mackie
Sep 17, 2003 10:31 AM | | El Doble Cinco?
Can I get a free one now?
Please? |
| Or at least Equis-Cinco (nm) | Metroid
Sep 17, 2003 10:36 AM | | |
| Easy fix... | JimC.
Sep 17, 2003 1:20 PM | | revive the old Salsa "El Kaboing" name, it's not been used for a few years? I like that name, but I confess I'd be leary about owning an El Kaboing.
Just a (bad) thought, Jim |
| or Cabrito de Montana? | NuMexJoe
Sep 18, 2003 5:51 AM | | How can you run out of Spanish names?! Still loving my grasshopper, but maybe I do need those adjustable rockers and a Z1 up front. Hmmmm.....
- Joe |
| I think the point was... | Metroid
Sep 17, 2003 10:43 AM | | At least in this case, to get the extra standover and not necessarily make a beefier frame. This particular frame still retains the 3-5" adjustabiltiy front and rear. |
| Yup, that's the one I remember too Tscheezy | Innocent Bystander
Sep 17, 2003 12:20 PM | | What a sweet looking bike. I think the differences will be minimal, but the X-5 will come with a Romic coilover as standard equipment, it will also have the head tube gussetting of the Salty which is beefier than that of Pantera or Chamuco. Lastly, it is designed around 5" of travel front and rear... so no weird geometry quirks if you decide to change rockers or fork to get more ravel.
Best of all, I was told we can take shipment immediately following interbike. There will be some ready to ship by then. No price yet, but that should come by week's end as I was told to call back then, adn I will. Whatever the case, I am adding it to our Bike Builder on the website.
Don
http://www.boutiquebikes.com |
| Sweet! Looks stiffer than a porn star on viagra! | Bikezilla
Sep 17, 2003 7:35 PM | | Love to try one someday.
-Bikezilla |
| A pic of my wife's new custom "X-5" | Douglas
Sep 17, 2003 11:55 AM | | Here's a pic of Helida's custom X-brace El Salty. She is only 5' 1/2" tall and needed the standover.
She loves her new bike, and working with Sherwood to build the custom frame was a better than great experience. |
| Now that's more like it.... | The Squeaky Wheel
Sep 17, 2003 2:09 PM | | although I still prefer "Chamco Red." "Bruja" green is kinda cool too. Definitely gets your attention.
Squeak |
| How about that Ventana El Cuervo!? | andy f.
Sep 17, 2003 2:45 PM | | 9" travel interrupted seat tube X-frame with a Bruja-style down tube and BB. Single pivot with a linkage-driven shock and optional floating brake.
I'd love to see El Cuervo's linkage driven shock and floating brake features filter down to the Chamuco and Pantera. |
| Andy, chamuco question.... | The Squeaky Wheel
Sep 17, 2003 3:34 PM | | When I rode Larry's Chamuco on Crosier Mtn (spelling?) I didn't feel much feedback in the pedals when climbing or brake jack like I've felt on the Heckler & Superlight. I know you have a lot more time on the bike than me and I"m like to hear your thoughts on these issues.
I'm giving serious thought to getting one from Larry when I move out there next spring. Thinking about building around a 125mm fork to make it a bit more climb-friendly. I may even talk to Sherwood about increasing the head angle a tad.
Squeak |
| squeaky, this ones for you! | drumstix
Sep 18, 2003 6:43 AM | | I dont have time to give you the run down right now, Ill do later tonight. |
| Tssssssssssssssssssssst. | Innocent Bystander
Sep 18, 2003 6:46 AM | | OUCH that thing is hot. Sweet looking rig.
Don
http://www.boutiquebikes.com
|
| WOW!! | Kpicha
Sep 18, 2003 8:20 AM | | That is one sweet looking ride!! Can I borrow it? I'll send it back in like new condition :) hee, hee
I think that's one the best looking rides I've ever seen! What's the name of the color Ventana used? Is it a stock color or did you have it custom? I bet you really enjoy it!
Cheers,
Kristina |
| I think that color is called "red" | andy f.
Sep 18, 2003 10:19 AM | | Sorry, couldn't help myself. I don't know what they call that particular shade of red. It's the only color El Chamuco comes in (El Chamuco = The Little Devil). The shot peened and anodized finish is less expensive than the painted finish on Ventana's linkage bikes and having only one color reduces inventory costs. It helps keep the price down compared to Ventana's other 6" travel frame, La Bruja. |
| lol-well, I guess I left the door wide open on that one :) | Kpicha
Sep 18, 2003 10:23 AM | | I wasn't sure if it was the good ol' red or electric dust or whatever. Its really nice, though. |
| Wooo! I like that. Sweet looking ride! | Bikezilla
Sep 18, 2003 12:31 PM | | That must be a total blast to ride!
-Bikezilla |
| Andy, chamuco question.... | andy f.
Sep 18, 2003 10:14 AM | | I've found chain growth related feedback and brake induced compression (exact opposite of brake jack) to be trivial issues with the Chamuco. There's a tiny bit of pedal feedback that I used to notice when I first switched from the Enduro, but it never detracted from the ride. Braking performance overall is better (quite a bit, actually) than the Enduro but I can still feel it stiffening to some degree.
I wouldn't mess with the head angle on the bike. I originally had a Fox Forx Vanilla 125RL on mine and I had absolutely no complaints about its climbing ability. It's a *very* different bike with a Z150 on there (close to 2" taller up front). I actually had to completely retune my rear suspension. The wheelbase grew over 3/4", BB is 1/2" taller, head angle is close to 2 degrees slacker. |
| Follow up... | The Squeaky Wheel
Sep 18, 2003 12:26 PM | | So how does Chamuco ride with the 125 Fox v. Zoke Z150? |
| Follow up... | andy f.
Sep 19, 2003 8:43 AM | | It's different. I did a race series earlier this year in the singlespeed category and after a while, I was doing all of my regular XC rides on the SS. I was saving the Chamuco for the long fire road climb then long steep descent type rides (and Downieville shuttles!) so I decided to set the Chamuco more for that type of riding.
It's a great all around trailbike with the Fox 125. Some of the geometry numbers were ~69 degree HA, ~72 SA, ~13.4" BB, 17.25" chainstay, ~43.5" wheelbase (size small). Slightly more freeride type numbers than the trailbike standard 5 Spot. The only negative about the Fox is that the rear suspension feels more capable than the fork.
I run my Z150 with a spring with no added air pressure in the HSCV leg and 5 psi air only in the ETA leg. After tuning both, the front and rear suspension are well balanced, with very similar feel throughout the stroke.
The Z150 added 3 lbs. to my bike. It rides much taller up front but climbs aren't so bad with the ETA feature on the fork. It drops the front end 2" and leaves you with 30mm travel. It's much easier to ride fast on steep descents and tight singletrack work requires more lean, less handlebar input to steer through.
There's also one personal benefit to me in riding a bike with such an upright riding position and more travel than is optimal for all around riding. I have a ruptured L5-S1 disc. I had a microdiscectomy 2 years ago but i've got disc nucleus material outside the normal disc space again and it's pressed against the nerve root that goes down the back of my right leg. The only big change I made in my life prior to the change in my condition is that I started riding and racing my SS again. My physical therapist tells me riding is ok but he doesn't want me long and low so that i'm bouncing around with my lumbar area in flexion. My position on the Chamuco w/Z150 is such that I can bend forward on it with a normal lordotic curve in my lumbar spine. My SS riding is now restricted to kiddy trailer hauling duty around the neighborhood. |
| Good info... | The Squeaky Wheel
Sep 19, 2003 9:17 AM | | Thanks Andy. That's a great analysis. I suspect that a 125 Fox would feel unbalanced with that plush rear-end. The new Maverick fork might be a great fit for El Chamuco.
Sorry to hear about your back and your P.T.'s recommendations make sense. Your back will improve. The extruded disc material gets reabsorbed by the body in time and the nerve root irritation will resolve. Then it becomes a mechanical issue which you've addressed. Make sure you keep those abs strong and stretch the hip flexors & hamstrings.
I'm 5'10" with a 31" inseam and thought Larry's large would be too big, but it felt just great. I'd probably be crunched on the medium.
Squeak |
| I'm only 1/2" shorter and I ride a small | andy f.
Sep 20, 2003 6:29 PM | | I don't know my inseam but i've got average leg/torso proportions. I never expected to buy a small. I rode a medium for a weekend, decided I had to have one, ordered it though Larry Mettler, and stopped by Ventana on the way home from work to pick it up. I decided to take a small on a quick spin around the lot and it felt better. Easier to bunnyhop and wheelie, quicker feeling. Things I wanted in a DH-biased trail bike enough to sacrifice the powerful pedaling position i've had in the past on larger bikes.
Thanks for your thoughts on my back. Sounds like you've either been there yourself or you work in the field (or both)? |
| IHmmm..... | The Squeaky Wheel
Sep 21, 2003 2:32 AM | | Maybe I'll have to reconsider the medium. I commonly find myself between frame sizes and have always gone with the smaller of the two. It's easier to make a bike longer than to shorten it.
Yeah, backs & arthritis. It's what I do for a living. I'm a Rheumatologist (fancy medieval sounding name for physician specializing in arthritis and autoimmune diseases and mountain bikes).
Are you in California? I thought you lived near Larry on the Front Range?
Squeak |
| frame size | drumstix
Sep 21, 2003 4:28 PM | | Hey Squeak, the small frame is basicly the same demensions as a med. Heckler. The Top tube is about 22 3/4" long. I have freinds with medium sized Bullits, top tubes feel the same, standover however is much different, with the Chamuco have much more standover clearance. I have also ridden a medium sized Heckler and the standover height is higher than the claimed 28.5" by SC. The med. 5 Spot has a longer top tube, and the small 5'ver is less than 22", about 21.5" I think, to small for me, and the standover clearance is about 30-31".
The El Chamuco fits me perfectly, thats the reason I bought it sight unseen, I did call and talk to Sherwood, and he recommended the small.
Are you in SoCal? |
| Thanks.... | The Squeaky Wheel
Sep 21, 2003 5:51 PM | | No. I'm as far away from SoCal as one can be. I live in northern Vermont but am moving to Loveland, CO next June.
I'll likely hold off on my purchase until then but El Chamuco is high on my list. The large felt OK but I think the medium would probably be perfect.
Squeak |
| Important! Actual effective top tube numbers | andy f.
Sep 22, 2003 8:00 AM | | for the small: 22.25" with a '03 Marzocchi DJ1 (same crown to axle length as the Z1). With the Z150, it's 22.5". The website says 22.79" but it's not correct. It also says 23.44" for the medium when it's really 23.0" (w/DJ1).
These are center of the head tube, measured level to the center of their intersection with the seat post, verified by a couple of the guys working at Ventana. |
| Follow up...part dues | drumstix
Sep 20, 2003 10:51 AM | | My Chamuco is set up with a Z1 fork, 5" of travel. Its more of a trail bike set up as I wanted to keep it somewhat light.
Parts list as follows:
03 Z1
Raceface stem with EA70 riser bars
CK headset
Raceface Turbine cranks and RF Sig. BB
XT drivetrain, for the most part, I do have a XTR ft der. and a XTR 12-34 cass.
for the time being, XT hubs, 317 rims, DB spokes and AL nipples for wheels, and WTB 2.4 Mutanoraptors
WTB seat
Thompson seat post
All these add up to about a 32pound trail bike. Because of past injuries and work I havent had a real great ride on it yet, just kinda going on a few short spurts. I can say that I do lke it so far, rides great, climbs very well, I do have it set up now with a tall front end, 2" riser, 15deg X 90mm stem and a 20mm headset spacer, so climbing short steep hills leaves me with a slight wandering front wheel, but I new that was going to happen. I have the small frame as well, Im about 5'6" tall with a 29" inseam. I tried many frames and this has been as of yet, that gives me some standover clearance with a long travel frame. Im going to Mammoth Mtn. it two weeks so I will follow up with a better ride report, I must say that I really like this bike, though I would like to try a new X5, perhaps set it up with some lighter parts to make it more on an XC bike, and keep the Lil devil for the fun runs like Andy. |
| have a photo? | Shylock
Sep 18, 2003 8:31 AM | | I'd love to see it. email it to me if you like
feel the gin |
| No photos that I know of | andy f.
Sep 18, 2003 8:34 AM | | I heard about it here: http://www.go-ride.com |
| another picture | drumstix
Sep 17, 2003 3:20 PM | | This is a pic of the same bike, I liked it so much that I kept it, now I know who's bike it is, oh well, a different angle. BTW, very nice bike! |
| Judging from the response here.... | Innocent Bystander
Sep 17, 2003 3:57 PM | | I would say that Sherwood has a winner on his hands. I hope so. They are really great people to deal with. I anxiously await the day that one arrives at our shop so I can see one live and in person....
Don
http://www.boutiquebikes.com |
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