|   5 Spot UK review | DGC
Sep 18, 2003 7:51 AM | | Just posted this in passion, meant to post it here, so here it is. |
| picture and ad #2 | DGC
Sep 18, 2003 7:52 AM | | hopefully you can read it, best I can do to make it clear enough. |
| Who makes the fork and shock on that 5 Spot in those photos?? | CTRider
Sep 18, 2003 8:02 AM | | Looks to be some European manufacturer perhaps? What's the scoop? |
| Magura (Rond) ... nm | dogbert
Sep 18, 2003 8:49 AM | | |
| OCR of the article. | Tscheezy
Sep 18, 2003 10:34 AM | | This should be it verbatim and I double checked it, but there could be a typo or two (you know how OCR is):
"When it comes to four bar rocker linkage bikes, few people can claim a better pedigree than David Turner. The classic "Burner" bike was one of the first full suspension bikes that offered significantly more advantages than disadvantages for all round riding and started the mainstream acceptance of suspension.
The 5 Spot is a direct descendant of that Burner line, evolved to match increasing expectations of trail bike travel. Handbuilt from custom double-butted tubing with a radically sloped top tube for crotch clearance and reinforced with a box throat gusset and horseshoe seat tube gusset. The rear CNC machined rocker pivots on a separate seat tube mount, with the bottom bracket and lower shock mount all set into one big hollowed-out block. The main pivot sits just above and behind the granny ring, with big CNC bridges and square section stays forking for double-sided support of the Horst pivot.
Neatly machined dropouts shave weight off and the chainstays are available as disc or V-brake options. Unusual for modern sussed bikes Turner still uses bushings rather than cartridge bearings, but cunning built-in grease injection ports on both frame pivots and the seatstay top keep them super smooth.
We tested a medium sized frame and as you'd expect it's a relatively compact setup that's begging you to chuck it around. But there's still room to pull yourself up to speed when needs arise.
Cornerstone of the addictive ride character is the razor sharp steering. Even with the Rond fork cranked out to a full 125mm stroke, it's super fast, diving into corners and flicking from line to line and mid-corner correcting immediately thanks to the steep 73.5 degree seat angle. Yet, somehow the relatively relaxed head angle and long wheelbase also means featherlight counter-steer for dispatching the fastest and loosest corners with total confidence in the classic one cheek raised cracking out a fart' fashion.
Press the pedals and it'll accelerate as well as most 25lb race rigs, with barely a hint of bob, but flawless trail connection and traction over the tiniest ripple sections. Punching out of corners it'll skip the front wheel down the trail with a totally inspiring enthusiasm and we did some serious damage to whippet egos on the 24hr race night laps and long technical climbs. The low speed compression damping on the Rond shock occasionally felt notchy but we certainly never felt the need to use the lockout. And even set really plush we stood and stamped or sat and spun without any wallow or drag.
The Turner is no XC only fairy though. Mashing the big ring down the rootiest, step infested descents it'll stick to the ground like glue, laying down totally dependable braking and line-holding traction. You can get the 5 Spot to shimmy if you really provoke it, but if you need to punch up and over impending evil you'll be out and clear in an instant thanks to its cut and paste responses. The slightly lumpy Rond shock makes the Romic coilover option mighty tempting though.
We haven't space or inclination to discuss componentry on a frame only' bike but suffice to say even against the superbike spec of the others it was the bike that everyone fought to ride. Freeing another 2-3lb with upgrades will just make it even more of a sweet riding superfreak.
While many 5in travel bikes feel like a compromise between long plush and short snap, the 5 Spot rode everything far better than it had any right to. Time and time again it would open yawning gaps on the other test bikes, regardless of terrain. Suspension response, handling and ride position somehow felt flawless in every situation and we've no hesitation giving it only our second ever perfect ten' suspension bike score.
Final Verdict: Probably the best all around trail bike we've ever had the pleasure of riding."
Sounds like they would have fallen into even deeper paroxysms of adoration had it had some real (i.e., stock) shocks on it.
tscheezy |
| Bwahahah.... I saw this righ after I came in from a ride... | Bikezilla
Sep 18, 2003 12:21 PM | | Thanks Tscheezy! I've been looking for a magazine review for the longest time.
What relly cooks my noodle is how they raved about the responsiveness and control, even without a Romic. I was just in the woods trying my darndest to see what all this talk about "Squat" and "Bob" was. I still don't get it.
I pedal it bites and goes. The shock barely moves in the initial power stroke, and after that it's almost totally still except for taking up hits. The rear still sucks up the bumps on the hardest climbing efforts, even while for fun, riding only the back wheel. Out of the saddle tests today I noticed only the slightest bob, which usually only existed in the first stroke, and it still didn't bob as much as my Z1 in full ETA mode. So what's the beef?
This thing rocks 8-ways to Sunday. All the contrary opinions I've read seem to come from ppl who have not rode this bike.
I said it before, the raves sound unbelievable but you just have to try one to understand.
-Bikezilla |
| Enough! What is wrong with Turner riders, why so insecure?!! | Ridemore
Sep 18, 2003 1:57 PM | | It is almost pathetic how this tiny minority of zealots need to be reassured every few hours that they are the best!
Get a life, go ride and stop this nonsense |
| Actually, Turner riders are quite secure and obviously happy. | WarrGuru
Sep 18, 2003 2:45 PM | | It's a shame that you're being forced to read the 5 Spot reviews.
If they really bother you so much, don't read them. Most of the 5 Spot posts mention that in the header.
You probably don't remember (or don't wnat to remember), but when the Blur first came out...that's all you could read about on this board. It was Blur this and Blur that. I didn't feel offended. In fact, I went out and rented a Blur so that I could put it through it's paces.
The people that are posting most about the 5 Spot are owners that are truely excited by that bike. They want to report and share with others. I've also noticed that they have gone out of their way to encourage other posters to post about their bikes......5.5VPP, Blur, Switchblade, Hammerhead, etc. They read and respond with positive helpful comments.
As far as insecurity goes. A little introspection in your case might do a world of good.
Post something about your bike(s). Let us know what you ride. What you like about your ride.
Also, the people that you are complaining about regularly reply to others here that ask for help. Not just Turner help, but help with forks and fork adjustment, drivetrain issues, saddles, you name it. I don't recall ever seeing your handle on any helpful post. |
| No need to be hostile. | Tscheezy
Sep 18, 2003 2:54 PM | | No one is attacking anyone else here. DGC posted the first magazine review I have seen (and I bet most folks here don't subscribe to that mag) and I simply made it readable. I don't think anybody is going to put more stock in it than in the usual MBA pap (well, except Bikezilla ;^p ), therefore my facetious "paroxysms of adoration" comment. Not sure how any of this qualifies as nonsense or translates into insecurity exactly...
Anyway, I'm off to take you up on your ride proposal.
t |
| Ouch, just tell me how you feel Tscheezy | Bikezilla
Sep 18, 2003 4:15 PM | | Same as MBA, Wooo that's tough. Good thing I didn't buy that mag then. I do buy MBUK and MBR. And yes it's the first magazine review I've read on the 5S.
So after buying the 3US mags plus the 2 major UK mags each month for almost a year, and just coming off a good ride, I was(am) stoked. Just tell me where to send my penitence.
-Bikezilla |
| Your waxings are enough... | Tscheezy
Sep 18, 2003 6:45 PM | | to make the most hardened Turner whore blush. That's why we love you, man.
tscheezy |
| Heheh....waaaahhh....heheheh | Bikezilla
Sep 18, 2003 4:02 PM | | Actually I just *did* go ride. That's what was so amusing in the first place.(coming back stoked and seeing the review matching my experience)
My point was that after weeks of Turner Bashing from people who apparently never rode anything like the 5S, and were whining about Horst link bikes in general, I decided to check, for myself, that I wasn't just too happy with my bike to notice the artifiacts that people who didn't have the bike INSISTED existed.(I am _not_ refering to you in this case)
I just wanted to give the others the benifit of the doubt, so I retested as critically as I could (while still having fun).
The other point was that while I understand how biased and over or understated some magazine reviews are, when you have what appears to be unamous consensus from a group of owners that the bike really works as claimed, then a magazine later publishes comments that pretty much echo what the owners have been posting, It sort of clinches things as far as the bashing goes.
BTW you may not have noticed but the Turner owners rarely if ever bash other bikes, (Hint Hint).
If you really don't like reading about them, you don't have to...no really you can just skip over the Turner threads...seriously, go ahead, I won't mind.
-Bikezilla |
| I will add much........and anti Turner people | DGC
Sep 18, 2003 11:52 PM | | It gets tiring listening to the real negative crap when some of us are trying to give others info to learn from.
I have been riding and testing bikes for a long time. I work at a shop where we get to repair/work on, build and ride all kinds of good expensive bikes, sometimes we get to test the entire line from some company offerings, not just one model. Lets see, what have i ridden in just the last 4 years: Titus, Ventana, Turner, Intense, Foes, Tomac, Yeti, Ellsworth, Litespeed, Merlin, Felt, Azonic, Karpiel, Moots, Mountain Cycle, Kona, Specialized, Giant, Trek, Santa Cruz, Dirt Works, Cannondale, Schwinn, and some I forgot or dont wanna mention. After awhile, they all get mushed together and seem all the same......NOT! Not even close to the truth.
Infact I feel much more sensitive to differences nowadays since I pay attention to fine details and spend a lot of time testing suspension components and bikes out, including many hours spent making mods or changes to my own bike and constantly testing those changes out.
I am on my 5th. Turner in almost 10 years, I have owned other bikes in years past. I could own any other brand and have considered others many, many times in recent years, I choose not to own others because there is not another bike out there which gives the best of everything that Turner bikes offer, not another company with their shit together and service to back it up like Turner bikes does. I have yet to find a bike which handles all the different types of terrain and conditions climbing or decending the way a Turner does, and does so at such a high level of performance. That does not mean that Turners are for everyone. They are not, no bike is the only one for everyone. There are many good bikes out there that do not have the Turner name on them.
I think i have enough experience to say I know what the hell I am talking about with bikes, and can make such a claim of the Turner 5 Spot. Thats why the long background description above.
We Turner owners are no different than the Santa Cruz and Ellsworth owners, and others too, who think they own the best bike there is, and are just sharing their experience with everyone else, but when so many riders/consumers say about the same exact words to describe the bike as the mags who test them, then its worth sitting up straight and listening and giving these people their due to know what they are talking about(consumers and bike mag people alike) and not discount these people by thinking they are just bragging about their beautiful bike or whatever. If you have no background inside the industry, and no time on the bikes your bashing and posting such negative crap and attitude towards highly reputable companies.......to those people: you really do make yourself look silly. If you dont like the posts, dont read them. If you dont like these forums, why are you here? If you have nothing constructive to add to these posts and just print negative trash, all your doing is making these forums less professional looking and sounding, giving a bad rap to a company who does not deserve it, and your making it hard for those who really rely on forums like these for legitimate information to learn from before making their next purchase. |
| and one more thing | DGC
Sep 18, 2003 11:55 PM | | picture. |
| Pucker!!! | Bikezilla
Sep 19, 2003 7:35 AM | | If that ain't a sphincter winker I don't know what is. You da' man.
I gotta do road trip and find some trails like that. There's plenty of dangerous stuff out this way, but little as beautiful as that.
Great editorial BTW. For me, that pretty much puts the lid on the whole thing.
-Bikezilla(Steering by impact) |
| Great Pic.... | The Squeaky Wheel
Sep 19, 2003 11:15 AM | | Now I'm impressed. How the hell did you find that line?
Squeak |
| Great Pic.... | DGC
Sep 19, 2003 8:29 PM | | find what line? where's the trail? The shot of me riding was taken spring of 2002. Actually you have to know the rocks under the water. During late summer it is all dried up, you then can see what line and where you need to go if you do decide to try it when its flowing. Here is a picture I shot after feeling my way across it this spring, here it is at its heaviest flow I've ever tried, I will never try it again at this rate of flow. Not smart, nearly was swept over. Look close at the wet track marks coming out of the water onto the dirt, and backtrack it and you can see somewhat of the line. Lean left and you WILL fall 50 feet into a pool of rocks below, after the first little ledge(lower right of picture), its straight drop after that. |
| That one earned my respect... | The Squeaky Wheel
Sep 20, 2003 5:32 PM | | Good job. Me...I hate wet rocks. Like riding on ice. But it's a regular occurrence in Vermont.
Squeak |
| Nevermind the rocks, how do you ride with "stones" that big? | Bikezilla
Sep 20, 2003 6:35 PM | | Really dude.
I'm saving those two pix just for inspiration.
-Bikezilla |
| more rocks | DGC
Sep 20, 2003 7:13 PM | | thanks you guys, and here is a few more for you.
Here is the absolute king of 4 bar bike design himself Dave Turner, riding with me on Toads here in Tahoe. |
| and even more rocks | DGC
Sep 20, 2003 7:16 PM | | tipical tahoe testing ground, if you know where to go. |
| one more of rocks | DGC
Sep 20, 2003 7:23 PM | | Like I said, tipical if you know the hiding spots around. And there are plenty of them to be had. We have excellent trails for rough rocky terrain to test bikes and equiptment on, there are some fab rides on smooth too. If you ever wanna come up and ride some of this..... |
| I'd love to... | The Squeaky Wheel
Sep 21, 2003 2:36 AM | | I'd love to come visit but don't see it in my near future. Looks similar to stuff I used to ride in northern New Jersey at Ringwood. Those were the good old days, but someone always wound up walking out with a broken somethin' or another. Now I live in VT where the trails are smoother but we have lots of fun drop-offs to play around with.
Squeak |
| Holy Sh!t - that is an amazing picture! | Motivated
Sep 19, 2003 11:33 AM | | |
| It is the Turner-police-Troika: Warrguru Bikezilla Tscheezy | Rockymountain
Sep 18, 2003 6:29 PM | | characterized by ignorant pretension ("we have the best bike Bwahaha"), insulting other people, whining when people get tired of them |
| You have to pump yourself up when you spend almost 2k on a frame | Jaybo
Sep 18, 2003 7:44 PM | | Just kidding. They are proud of their bikes. They do get a little sensitive when you question any part of their bikes. Ask them about bushings; that will get a string halfway down the page. It is funny.
Jaybo |
| Trolls or just Lurkers? | Bikezilla
Sep 19, 2003 6:56 AM | | Funny, I did a search for past posts from RockyMountain, and Ridemore since they are so fond of calling people out.
There has been no previous posting by RockyMountain, not even in the archives. Strange for someone who has apparently been so inflamed from reading too many Turner posts not to have ever asked a question, or expressed an opinion of any kind before.
Then there is Ridemore, Who also has taken up pulling the Turner Hater's bandwagon. Apparently there was only ONE other post from this nick, a request for input about the Turner XCE, Santa Cruz Blur, and IRONICALLY the Rocky Mountain ETSX 70.
So I guess it's only okay to post Turner info if Ridemore requests it. (Otherwise no one else is allowed to benifit from the info)
As for Rockymountain, if this person is actually not one of our regular flame-baiting trolls cowardly using an assumed nick' (notice the different typing of the nick from post to post in this thread) well, perhaps your first post could have been about something you LIKE instead about what you hate.
-Bikezilla(Don't hate the players, hate the game) |
| You hit it on the head! | WarrGuru
Sep 19, 2003 9:54 AM | | RockyMountain is obviously one of our current stalkers who is trying to make it look like others have the same issues with the Spot. No other posts, but is complaining about all of the posts.....baloney. |
| And the writing style is very familliar... | Bikezilla
Sep 19, 2003 10:18 AM | | Calling out names, Labeling them, and then completely misquoting them to support a false argument.
Seen it all before...from one person in particular. Too bad this forum doesn't track IPs like some I've been on. the name changers got smoked out regularly, if by no other reason their subnets.
-Bikezilla |
| Vs obsessive compulsive | rockymountain
Sep 20, 2003 8:48 AM | | Get a good psychiatrist and join a 12 steps group: you are obsessed to the point of clinical significance. |
| Tscheezy: OCR of the other bikes? | timmyb
Sep 19, 2003 12:59 PM | | Could you provide the OCR on the other bikes in the test? I'm too lazy and cheap to try to find the mag. It helps to put the comments in perspective. Thanks! |
| Don't got 'em. | Tscheezy
Sep 19, 2003 1:21 PM | | I downloaded, sharpened, and "OCRed" DGC's copy. It really didn't work too well and I had to do a lot of retyping. Maybe DGC will post up images which are a little bigger or Bikezilla can as I think he said he subscribes?
Sorry,
tscheezy |
| Sorry, no subscripions... | Bikezilla
Sep 19, 2003 4:12 PM | | I don't even know what magazine that was. It didn't look like one of the two I buy at the bookstore: MBUK and MBR
But if it was one of those two, let me know what month and maybe I can find it.
FWIW I only subscribe to one magazine...Bike. Too bad they took the summer off, right after I started my subscription. Feh!
-Zilla |
| Conversion of the Turner police to magazines? | rockymountain
Sep 18, 2003 11:58 AM | | One magazine does a crappy pro-5-spot test: it is plasterd all over the forum.
20+ magazines say that the Blur is one of the greatest bikes ever produced: they are all trash. |
| In fairness I am aware of a few reviews of Burner/XCE/5-spot | davide
Sep 18, 2003 5:56 PM | | None is quite so ... nonsensical as the one in What Mountain Bike (turning down the SB because it has "no personality"?! including the Intense freerider with the SB,ID and 5-spot? etc..), but in all of them the Turners did fine:
1996: The Burner was reviewed in MBA, the year I bought my GT STS, it got a good review (but it only had, I think to remember, 3 or 3.5" of travel ... and I went for the GT which had 4.75")
1999 (or 1998): The XCE was reviewed in Mountain Bike Magazine, in a shotout with the Chuck CR-FS and I think a Lenz. The XCE lost the shotout to the Chuck (the Chuck, a beautiful bike built in Canada, is unfortunately I think out of production). The review might still be on the MBM site.
2002: The XCE was reviewed in MBA, it got very good ratings although it only got a B for climbing.
I am sure there are others ... |
| Burner, XCE, and RFX, sure, but to lump them is like saying that | Tscheezy
Sep 18, 2003 6:54 PM | | the Tazer, Tracer and Uzzi SL reviews will tell you everything you need to know about the new Uzzi SLX with 1.5. It may almost be apples and apples, but we are talking fuji, granny smith and red delicious here. There are lots of transferable traits (the nature of the pivots, etc), but in the end they are different bikes designed for different applications and should be reviewed (more "clinically objectively" than the above, sure) separately. I still think the closest bike to the 5-Spot is the RFX in 5" mode. Just my opinion there.
It was a swooning review, but that is what makes it unconvincing. That is also why I rib Bikezilla. No harm done in any quarter.
tscheezy |
| You are so set in your ways | Davide
Sep 19, 2003 8:24 AM | | I just made a list of the published reviews involving cross-country/all-mountain oriented Turners for the sake of some historical information ... where do you get the strange idea that I claim that these reviews tell me everything I need to know about the 5-spot? |
| Could it have been the title? | Bikezilla
Sep 19, 2003 8:28 AM | | I read it that way too, but you know me, I'm a mindless Turner Zealot-copper.
-Bikezilla(Steering by impact b/c Turner says I must not think) |
| If I misinterpreted the point of your post, I apologize. | Tscheezy
Sep 19, 2003 8:54 AM | | It seemed that you were replying to the point that this was the first 5-Spot review in a mag we had seen, but then you said that the Burner/XCE/5-SPOT had recieved numerous previous reviews. The 5-Spot had never been reviewed in an article I had seen, that's all. No worries on my end.
I try to fight the tyranny of personal curmudgeondom at every turn. Sorry if it seemed otherwise.
tscheezy |
| Fair enough... MBA hasn't been all that fair to many bikes | Bikezilla
Sep 18, 2003 7:11 PM | | I still read that mag, but then I slow down to look at auto wrecks too.
I don't recall MBA talking about issues with the Blur, however the October issue had a big article about how the 5th-e Air "fixes" the one issue that they now say has been nagging the Blur. (bobbing during low input pedaling)
I don't know anything about this, but it seems unfair to the Blur if they didn't feel the need to get into it in the first reviews. The point being the MBA is a flashy read that's easy to get but I rarely put much faith in their articles. But that's just me.
This is not about the Blur, a great bike by any account. I'm ranting about MBA. I really don't like their West-Coast-only perspective, I don't like the fact all their pictures of trail riding shows the nearest tree in another zip code. I REALLY don't like the appearence that all their riders are under 155lbs. Seems to me MBA writes in a vacuum.
I know, I know, I should take my own advice and skip it.
So even if MBA calls the 5S the Holy Grail...oh wait they said that about the Epic didn't they?...I will not say a word.(Yes, a first for me)
Last thought, it takes lots of sources to form an opinion, magz, forums, owner reviews, personal trials(when available) then take the locust to form an opinion.
Cheers Gears and Beers!
-Bikezilla |
| Same British rag dissed the Racer X a while back.... | Jaybo
Sep 18, 2003 7:49 PM | | They were not kind to the Titus Racer X. The same company my bike was built. I'm so offended and hurt I may not sleep for days on end. I thought Titus was the best. Oh, wait, I guess Turner is the best. I'm not riding the best. My car isn't the best. My family is the best. My house isn't the best. My job isn't the best. Well, 1 out of 5 ain't bad. I can't at least hold my head halfway up. I'm going to bed.
Jaybo |
| Say Hello to the bad guy...(general message) | Bikezilla
Sep 18, 2003 8:59 PM | | Okay,
Somehow it't become really REALLY bad for me to post that I like my bike. I also rave about my fork, and my brakes. Guess that makes me a Zoke-Shimano whore too.
As I said, I came home after a mid-week ride which in itself is cause for joy, and saw a mag review and thought it funny b/c I just got off the very bike they were talking about.
'Scues me for laughing out loud.
I NEVER said my bike was better than your bike(in general not directed at anyone in particular).
I do call to the carpet some comments that the bike has issues, when I don't see them myself. Guess I'm funny that way. I have asked for advice on how to spot these things, and I try to post my findings Maybe I don't know bikes as well as many others here...but like Roy Rogers said "I know what I like". (That was RR wasn't it?)
Perhaps it was my "Bwahhahah" has gotten so many people's ire, then SORRRY! It was not meant as a gloat, just thought it was funny timing. Seems to me Turner owners aren't the largest number of overly sensitive ppl here.
I don't bash other bikes, and rarely insult others contributers directly(one well deserved post comes to mind), But you know I see a whole lot of Turner bashing and insults directed at Turner owners, so really, I can't be the only bad guy.
Whatever. I'll just sit back a while and watch the flames.
-Bikezilla(Steering by impact b/c I'm an Arbor-Sadist) |
| I'd freaking gloat too | Jaybo
Sep 19, 2003 6:36 AM | | The 5 Spot is an awesome bike. It is truly drool worthy. It probably is the best trail frame on the market. No worries.
Jaybo
PS What is Arbost-Sadist? |
| Arbor-Sadist... | Bikezilla
Sep 19, 2003 7:15 AM | | A late night attempt at humor...poor as it was.
Arbor(Tree)-Sadist:
My sign-off is usually "Steering by Impact" because I often get too wide on the extremely tight turns an plant a shoulder (or other body part) into a tree to finish the move.
That's also the reason I go by Bikezilla, not because I'm good, (Actually I suck) but because I have all the riding finesse of a 100-foot tall, radio-active lizzard.
Cheers Gears and Beers
-Bikezilla(riding one of *many* great bikes out there) |
| MBA and magazines | Davide
Sep 19, 2003 9:23 AM | | I think that the problem with MB magazines is that they do not use STANDARDS. Granted, testing a bike is a very subjective thing because so much depends on the rider but more can be done to assure a bit more objectivity (e.g. always ride the same track, evaluate frames with the same forks and tires, time a loop, take the bike completely apartand weight the frame etc..)
MBA is very up and down but actually they did a relatively fair job with the Blur. I followed the reviews carefully because I relly like the bike and from the second review (the compare with Spider, VT-1 and Specialized brain) the "low-frequency" bobbing was pointed out. It is a small effect (which one can actually perceive easily, of all places, on asphalt!) and it has very little effect on a trail but it is there.
By the third review MBA said that the progressive fixes it: this actually makes sense so there is probably some consistency. I can't wait to take the Blur for a 2 days rental with the progressive and really test it out ... I wish I could do the same with the 5-spot ... |
| Much agreement here | Bikezilla
Sep 19, 2003 9:41 AM | | Reviews are I suppose by nature subjective. I guess that would be hard to avoid, your points are on the mark.
I just think some of the way they worded the Blur "Fix" would really irk me if I had bought a Blur, based in part on their reviews. It sort of comes off as if it is really nessary. I just didn't get the impression it was a real big deal. But I have never ridden a Blur.
Then again I can't fault them for follow-ups or upgrade suggestions. Maybe if they called it and upgrad rather than a fix...
But I still think MBA, is the "New York Post" of MTB mags. (if you ever read that paper you would understand the true depth of that insult)
Looking forward to reading your input on the 5th-E/air on the Blur!
-Bikezilla |
| In fairness I am aware of a few reviews of Burner/XCE/5-spot | Quattro
Sep 19, 2003 5:51 AM | | I've read all the Turner(US mag) reviews of the Burner and the XCE over the years. All of them had one common thing. The bike did everything very,very well. The bike wasn't the best XC racer or the best DH bike, but it was always one of the best all around trailbikes.
On another note, I may be getting old, but are you sure about the STS out in 96? I had the original GT team LTS and if I remember it was out in late 95 early 96. It had about 3.25 in. of travel. It was a great fireroad bike. It had terribe handling and squeaked like a pig(bushings). It was heavy and the rear end flexed. I did a V brake conversion on the rear(original wasn't set up for V brakes) and when I squeezed the brake levers, the seat stays flexed(even though they were big and beefy. I probably would of bought a Turner back then, if I hadn't had such a terrible time with the GT bushings and the infamous LTS brakejack(not that the Turner suffered from that).Someone stole my GT(I pity the fool), and I bought a single pivot FS bike that was heavy but it handled well and and climbed well and had no plastic bushings. |
| In fairness I am aware of a few reviews of Burner/XCE/5-spot | Davide
Sep 19, 2003 9:05 AM | | Oh I completely agree. My long held position is that MANY bikes nowadays work wonderfully and this CERTANLY includes Turners! I was just trying to summarize those reviews, if you check (and you can the reviews are on the net) you will see that I have not misquoted. Turners have always got good reviews.
For the GT. You are right. I received my STS frame in Jan 1997, it had been out a few months as a pre-1997 release: it was the new version of the 1996 STS wich had the old 3" travel titanium linkage. And you are somewhat right about the bike, although my experience is much better. I ride a lot (year around, I am in San Francisco, at least 5 times/week) and quite hard and the bike is (a miracle?) holding on. I changed the bushings to sealed bearing the next year and I had no one problem, brake jack has never be a problem for me: I run the suspension with a 700 spring, quite a lot of preload and a relatively slow rebound (4 turns from minimum) and that seems to take care of it and also of the excess bob when standing. The most stupid thing on the bike was that the RS deluxe did not allow the use of the best feature of the bike: the trunnion mount. Only last year I bought a spare RS Coupe and I could finally set up the bike to work well with a Marz Z1.
Still: it is a rather obsolete bike and it is time to retire it. I wish I could try a Turner to finally decide between my favorite of all times (the Blur, which I find superior to any horst-link I tried) and the supposed champion of the horsts. |
| I think the Chuck was made here in Southern Cal. | drumstix
Sep 22, 2003 9:01 PM | | They are or were, some ex dirtbike guy's, freinds of the White Bros. that made some killer frames, bright red with polished rear triangles, I think that the rear end was very Turner like too. |
| Interesting to see an air-shock (Rond) in the back | Davide
Sep 18, 2003 8:58 AM | | it is hard to understand what the "reviewer" means by "notchy" or "slighty lumpy" when referring to the Rond (sigh, why there is so much nonsense in these pseudo-reviews).
It would be interesting to see a well done comparison of performance of the Romic vs an air shock on a 5-spot. Maybe a progressive air or Manitou swinger. |
| Why the Air Shock? | WarrGuru
Sep 18, 2003 10:00 AM | | I don't understand why the test was done with an air shock. Is Turner now recommending an AIr SHock for the Spot?
I'm completely happy with the Romic. I was hoping to see a review of the frame AS SHIPPED. I can't imagine that the ride would be better with an air shock......A little lighter, but not smoother.
Oh well. |
| Why the Air Shock? | mtnwater
Sep 18, 2003 11:15 AM | | I had the opportunity to try a Fox AVA on my 5-spot while my Romic was in for repair (thanks again DGC). I gotta say, the AVA just didn't seem suited to the bike at all. I tried many, many different adjustment combinations (more air, less air, fully extended sleave, etc. etc.) and just couldn't get it to feel right. If it was stiff enough to keep squat to a minimum, small bump compliance was lost. If it was set soft to take up the small stuff, it would rapidly blow through travel and bob noticably while climbing. I never understood what folks meant when they mentioned "wallowing in travel" before I rode the AVA. I got my Romic back last night and the difference is night and day. Nice firm feel while peddling yet very compliant over small and big bumps alike. If the reviewers like the bike with an air shock, they'd be more impressed with the Romic set up. Anyone else have any experience with an air shock on the 5? I'd be curious to see if others have had better luck than I. |
| ProPedal AVA or older AVA? | derby
Sep 18, 2003 11:57 AM | | I've tested the ProPedal AVA on my Tracer, there's no wallow or detectable pedal bob. It performed very close to identical to a test with a Romic with 2 clicks in of compression on my bike. I suspect there are subtle differences found with more familiarity.
- ray |
| ProPedal AVA or older AVA? | DGC
Sep 19, 2003 9:54 PM | | Hey Ray, (and others),
I have a Fox AVA, and have tried the pro pedal AVA on my 5 Spot. The pro pedal did take out some wallow from the original AVA performance, but also at the loss of small bump compliance. It ends up being a bit harsher than the regular AVA, at least on my 5 Spot.
And on the 2004 Ellsworth Truth I recently rode, its way over kill IMO. That bike now feels like a harshtail. Just thought you would wanna hear this input. |
| ProPedal AVA and Romic | Steve from JH
Sep 20, 2003 7:01 AM | | I was trying the Propedal AVA on my Truth while my Romic was back at the factory for a leaky main seal. Ray came to visit and we tested the AVA against a Vanilla R on both his Tracer and my Truth. I think we both agreed that on either bike the AVA reduced wallow and pedal bob but the Vanilla R was smoother over the small stuff.
I had reported that the AVA felt a lot like the Romic to me, but that was after using an old Stratos while I waited for the AVA to show up. So I didn't have a direct comparison.
Since then I've got the Romic back and I can definitely say that it's better than the AVA ProPedal over the small stuff and just smoother in general.
I think the difference is because of coil vs. air rather than because of the damping. Also I think these platform shocks in general don't reduce small bump compliance per se but rather gradual onset bumps or any size bumps at low bike speeds. The easy adjustability of the Romic helps out here. |
| Romic might not have an established warranty/tech-support in UK | Davide
Sep 18, 2003 11:24 AM | | and therefore the Rond is what the UK importer decided to rig |
| Davide, Plan a vacation in Tahoe. Spooner XC rents the 5S. nm. | tahoskier
Sep 19, 2003 11:56 AM | | |
| ANy more info on that rental? | WarrGuru
Sep 19, 2003 8:36 PM | | Like the setup? I'm curious how they spec'd the rental 5-Spot. |
| Great....Thanks | WarrGuru
Sep 20, 2003 6:11 AM | | A buddy of mine is trying to decide between a Spot with Fox Vanilla and a Z1 FR. He's tried my bike with the Z1FR. Now he can go to Tahoe (he's going there next week) and try the Vanilla on some great trails.
Thanks again! |
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