|   Are we all brand whores in some small way.....> | Gavin P.
Sep 23, 2003 9:27 AM | | im 15 yrs old, my old man gets me a schwinn..hey im 15 yrs old..cool i mean its a schwinn fors gods sake..then in college, i learn a bit more about bikes, and i buy what i think is the best..a cannondale f600, nice hardtail, front shock..yada yada yada..cost about $950.00..ok so i just spent a grand on a bike..big cojones man, serious jack right..then on some weekend trips to the mountains as i show up with my cannondale, i see guys with bikes with names on them, ive never heard of..we chat, i ride a bike or two of theirs and bam..how would the average joe rider like me know about ellsworth, turner, titus or intense..we wouldnt until someone who is a serious badass rider shows up in Vermont and we see it..i mean for me b4 this it was all about trek, cannondale kona and marin and maybe add specialized and giant...so heres the point im trying to make..i recently wanted to buy a dream bike..the best money could buy so to speak, which is not really possible, but im my mindset, i wanted the best of the best..i go online, do my homework..i wanted an all around trailbike..to use everyday, commuting in nyc, the park, the mountains, etc..it had to last, and yes, terrible as it seems, i didnt want to spend $3300.00 on a "mall bike"..i wanted something, no one knows about, something different..but above all else the bike had to be the best riding bike of whats out there..so i go on this site and thx to all of you, and even more homework, i finnally decide on getting the ellsworth ID...and i am not a trust fund kid or a cardio-vascular surgeon, so for me to shell out this kind of shekels, i didnt want to regret it, and thus far i havent..but coming to my whole point, lots of us out there could buy mall brands of bikes that are sold everywhere, but we opt for small boutique frame builders who most riders have never heard of..its not a bad thing, but its like my sister who wears a 400.00 prada bag that no one recognizes...so in conclusion, im thankful to those riders who showed me there was more out there than kona, trek, cannondale and klein...
sorry for the rant, gavin... |
| My eyes | JimC.
Sep 23, 2003 9:35 AM | | went all blurry about line 2 or 3, I give this the longest-string-of-words (i.e. not a sentence) award, for the day. Jim |
| Yeh, college. Sorry, what? (nm) | rvw
Sep 23, 2003 3:20 PM | | |
| The thing to remember is ... | TruckeeLocal
Sep 23, 2003 11:32 AM | | The thing to remember is that you've now got a cool bike that should make you happy. Go out and ride the damn thing rather than writing about it (although some folks here appreciate photos). And don't come whining back to us if you land a 10' drop to flat and the frame breaks. Enjoy. |
| most important thing. | older guy
Sep 23, 2003 11:57 AM | | You bought it because you like it, for yourself...that's all that matters.
Looking back, I regret the things I didn't do, not what I have done...a wise man. |
| i thought he wanted best of the best....(nm) | walter
Sep 23, 2003 12:12 PM | | |
| Ignorance is bliss | TruckeeLocal
Sep 23, 2003 1:54 PM | | And I've got an Id too ! |
| Ignorance is bliss | walter
Sep 23, 2003 7:10 PM | | Ignorance is bliss, thats a great animal rights website, but anyway, my condolences on the id |
| re: Are we all brand whores in some small way.....> | Closed Loop
Sep 23, 2003 3:21 PM | | I have lived a similiar story, Schwinn when I was 13, bought a C'Dale F500 Freshman year of college, then a C'Dale CADD5 custom built to be super light and fast (and it was), but alas 200 lbs., aluminium fatique strength, and time have turned my CADD5 into a CADD 2.5. I am now on the prowl for the "perfect" bike, but what I've learned from my years is the best bike in the world is the one I'm on, because I'm on the trail and I can't think of anywhere else I'd rather be. |
| Brand Whores? Maybe, but I'm more a slave to.... | Squash
Sep 23, 2003 5:39 PM | | My bank account than I am to a brand name. Some day I'd like to drop 4 grand on my dream bike. But until then I'll settle for my Trek hard tail and my Specialized Enduro. They both fit me correctly and I like the way they ride and feel. I couldn't care less what is on the frame for a brand name as long as it FITS and RIDES the way I like. I know that there's LOTS more out there than Trek and Specialized, I just can't justify the expense of my "dream bike" right now. So I guess if riding one of the more common brand name bikes makes for a "brand whore" I guess that's what I am. But I'm a happy brand whore when I'm on em. That's ALL that counts!
Good Dirt |
| Ditto.... | Fuelish
Sep 23, 2003 6:53 PM | | more or less....'xceptin' I'm on a Fuel 90 exclusively (not counting the 12 yr old Schwinn rigid beater mtb used only for runs to the store for milk, etc....heh) |
| Brand Whore? How 'bout this | cw
Sep 23, 2003 8:47 PM | | I generally peel the stickers off my bikes. I like the no-nonsense look of a word free frame. |
| I was thinking of painting my Ellsworth goose turd green . . . | Steve from JH
Sep 24, 2003 7:15 PM | | with a paint brush. |
| just curious..... | Dougal
Sep 25, 2003 1:27 AM | | Would it be to prove that you can polish a turd?
Dougal.co.nz |
| I don't think anyone that goes out and rides what they fall..... | Mountain^^^Man
Sep 23, 2003 10:01 PM | | ....in love with is exploiting themselves, or their environment, or others for that matter, in any way, so long as they do it with respect for others out there. Let us not forget as well, that the "dream bikes" we all think of at times may cost $4000.00 or more, but of the $3000.00 worth of difference from the first "good bike you had, most likely less than half of it accounts for that "boutique frame". In this sense, were not "brand whores", but technophiles, just as music lovers are audiophiles. We spend more as we get better at, and more familiar with the activities we enjoy, whether it be traveling to exotic places to ride, or that new high tech hubset you just learned about, and all it's advantages. "Sticker shock" can put the dreaded fear of, "I've spent to much", or "Oh my God, how could I be so gullible!", into anyone. Becoming familiar with the technological efficiency of what your using, learning how to care for it, and most importantly, getting out and having a blast on it, can erase that feeling, and remind you that there is no price you can put on your own health and happiness. We are not obsessed with our bikes, we cherish them after everything we put into them, because they are an extension of ourselves, this to me, means self respect. So go out and respect yourself, and stop worrying about it. |
| Maybe some are... | fred³
Sep 24, 2003 3:05 AM | | but some of us buy from necessity. Titus was the only one to build a fs bike with an xs frame to fit me.
As for looking at the best brands and buying...why not? Why settle for what we consider a lesser product if we can afford a better product? It's not as though the airwaves are flooded with ads trying to seduce us to spend our cash on their product. Most of us who buy the higher end frames do a considerable amount of research to make sure it's what we want. Sure there are the few with disposable income("Pete Fagerlin" comes to mind) and he might be considered a brand whore(owns an overthetop SUV too I guess), but it's his right and he most likely can afford it. So who cares. It's those who buy the high end stuff for strictly the "look at me" factor. That's just childish. |
| re: Are we all brand whores in some small way.....> | Lucky7
Sep 24, 2003 7:07 AM | | Nah, no way. Sticking with one brand is ridiculous!
Current stable:
Titus Racer-X
Titus Switchblade TALAS
Titus Quasi-Moto
Titus Riddler SS
Titus Hard Core Racer Ti HT
Oh, and a road bike... |
| Very impressive.... | The Squeaky Wheel
Sep 24, 2003 9:18 AM | | That's a nice quiver of arrows.
Only real "excess" I see is the need for the SB in the face of both a RX & Quasi. I would think that it would be odd man out since it really fills the gap between these two bikes.
That and the road bike (who needs 'em anyways)?
Squeak |
| I know exactly what you mean.... | Lucky7
Sep 24, 2003 10:08 AM | | ..the SB in short-travel mode is not as quick as the R-X nor as stable and solid as the Quasi in long-travel. But it does make a GREAT travel bike when you need, er want, different bikes for different types of trails. For example, took it to Porcupine Rim in May. Climbed the 4 or whatever miles up in 3"-3.65" mode. At the top, flipped a couple of switches, BAM!, fly down the 12 miles with 5" in front and 5.7" in back. That was a blast! |
| Sounds like pure bike snobbery to me (nm). | jcw
Sep 24, 2003 7:31 AM | | nm |
| Sounds like pure bike snobbery to me (nm). | Lucky7
Sep 24, 2003 8:00 AM | | Not if you ride and enjoy them all. I ride the sh!t out of all of mine and enjoy each one for different types of trails, ride lengths, racing, etc. |
| Agree, but... | jcw
Sep 24, 2003 10:10 AM | | if you base your decision on what to ride based on who makes it, not on how it performs for you, then you're guilty of bike snobbery IMO. I don't buy into the theory that small builders make better bikes. The big guys have a great advantage in technology, using lasers to measure and cut tubes, state of the art computer controlled frame jigs, etc. What you do get from the small guy (hopefully anyway) is a greater attention to detail (ie, all pivot bolts are torqued to the proper spec, frame defects caught before they go out the door) and unsurpassed customer service. I may be way off base here, but the original poster sure sounded like he based his decision on the opinion of others rather than actually getting out and riding different bikes and finding the one that rides best for him. I've been seriously riding bikes a long time (since the early 70's) and went through that "gotta have something unique and different" stage early on. Now I just buy what works best for me regardless of manufacturer or what others ride or don't ride. One experience that left a big impression on me was riding the slickrock trail a number of years ago and watching a guy on an old C-dale F400 fully rigid, wearing a straw hat and teva's, riding circles around everyone else out there that day. The 2 best riders I know both ride low cost, low tech steel singlespeeds. One of 'em even welded up his own frame. He rides stuff that boggles my mind. It's truly not about the bike. Sorry for the rant. |
| Yeah, I know guys like that, and some don't learn enough........ | Mountain^^^Man
Sep 24, 2003 2:21 PM | | ....about the high tech stuff to know the differences, and most of them just don't want to spend big bucks on a bike, in that respect, I'd say they don't know what they're missing. One of these guys is a very good rider, and can beat most people with an old beater hardtail, that he very poorly maintains. I don't look at it as, he doesn't need a better bike, I look at it as, think how much better he'd be with his talent, with a better bike. He's finally starting to listen to some of us, and is slowly starting to get better equipment. Guys that fall in love with one brand are hardly being snobs, the only exception wood be posers that do it just to show up guys with cheaper bikes, and as we all know, they're usually the ones you have to wait for when you regroup on rides. Guys, and gals fall in love with bikes like Titus because they're engineered well, solidly built, and backed by some of the best customer service in the business, if that makes them snobs, you better call lots of us snobs, and you may end up riding with people that have more attitude than talent. |
| I only call people snobs that... | jcw
Sep 25, 2003 6:56 AM | | look down their noses at the mainstream brands. Listen, the guy I was referring to that rides his own homemade singlespeed is the best mechanic I've ever met, and used to own his own shop. He's ridden just about everything out there, and before this had a Kona Stinky Delux, so believe me, he knows what he's missing, and he prefers his steel hardtail singlespeed. I'm not saying that there's something wrong with owning a high end botique (sp?) bike. And there's nothing wrong with brand loyalty either. But I think you're doing yourself a disservice if you base your buying decision on the opinion of others, and on what decal is on the downtube. Far better to make your buying decision on actual ride performance for you. If that happens to be a Titus or Ellsworth, great. But to automatically count out the big guys just because they're "common" is just plain stupid and reeks of snobbery IMO. |
| "don't know what they're missing" -- huh? don't think so. | gonzostrike
Sep 25, 2003 7:52 AM | | you said that the simpler, older bikes are ridden by guys who don't know what they're missing.
you're mistaken.
technology can be an assistant.
it can also be a hindrance.
if you have skills, you can ride rigid SS faster than a lot of the local DH riders -- on the local DH course. I happen to know someone who is capable of that very thing.
as to Titus, well... whatever. they're pretty nice, just not my style and to me they don't ride as well as the hype suggests. In 2001, I traded rides with a friend in Weirdville, AZ (Sedona). He had a very nice Switchblade that Charles Coker built up for him. I had an Aeon (Ellsworth) Isis. They rode pretty similarly, neither had a suspension advantage... and my Isis had a meager Fox Vanilla R in the rear, definitely not an advanced suspension damper.
Americans get very caught up in brand identity and brand loyalty. I know someone who bought a shyte-filled C'dale for 2500 USD for his ex-wife, the thing never ran properly. He thought "Cannondale is a reputable American company, should be a good bike." Hah.
The builders who CARE about the RIDE (not the image, not the pose, not the bling-bling-chi-chi, and not the techweenies or weightweenies) know all that you need, and will build you a bike that is YOURS and rides like it is YOURS. That's the ultimate riding experience -- not "the best" from Seven or Merlin or Moots or Maverick. |
| brand rant | Tad
Sep 24, 2003 8:01 PM | | It depends on how you perceive brands. Branding in itself is neither good nor bad. It's essential to differentiate products. But I think brands should be a measure of quality, whereas, these days, they have become more a measure of exclusivity and image.
Do you choose a brand because of the associated build/ride/service etc. qualities? Or do you choose a brand because not many people can afford it and shows how "hardcore" you "really" are about your sport? For most of us, it's a bit of both, isn't it.
Branding really is just a convenient way of making a choice, without really making a choice. A brand projects images and characteristics about the product that we find desirable, from which we choose. These images and characteristics, on the whole, are fabricated. X bike won a race, so it must be the best. Y frame gets big air in some awesome trail, so I can too (yeah right).
Most of us, can't comprehensively test ride enough bikes to form our own judgements and make an informed choice, so we rely (in part) on brands.
Getting back to what I said at the beginning about quality vs. image. When we make purchase decisions about bikes, it's often very as much an emotional decision, as a rational decision. Hence arguments, such as strong welds, ergonomic design don't really cut it from a marketer's point of view. It's also easier to differentiate your product on a demographic/psychographic, rather than functional basis.
However, the bottom line for me, is look at the product, not the image attached to it. Check out the great reviews here at MTBR and form your own rational opinion (emotional attachment comes after you ride), not the spin doctor's image. |
| Gaining that knowledge is as simple as buying an issue of MBA.. | World B. Free
Sep 25, 2003 10:07 AM | | which, as most experienced cyclists will tell you, is no knowledge at all. |
| You're right. | roee
Sep 27, 2003 3:27 AM | | Personally, I know I like special stuff. I like products that had lots of effort go into them. This is not just "brand name"; Brand name alone won't do. But brand name that got it's reputation through excelling, like Turner, hits my soft spot. And if it's custom made, special, not widely known it's even better.
Then I look on my ride and feel special. It might sounds lame but then the experience of riding (which I love just as the rest) is accompanied by the experience of owning. It's not merely brand chasing (as seen in watches, for example). I just appreciate good stuff.
Still, I ride Specialized, not botique frames; I got a nearby dealer, and they cost a fraction of a good botique bike, without many compromises. Until now my financial situation didn't allow me to go wild (But I'm just looking to replace one of my Specializeds, so there's a chance to own something sweet). |
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