|   How do Sapim spokes compare to DT and Wheelsmith? | Ratt
Dec 1, 2002 7:05 PM | | |
| Compare? | Mike T.
Dec 1, 2002 8:33 PM | | Just fine! Sapim are great spokes. Go to their site and see all the pros who use them. Yep all the way up to Lance in the TdF. |
| So the question should be the other way around i guess. | Ratt
Dec 1, 2002 9:08 PM | | |
| re: How do Sapim spokes compare to DT and Wheelsmith? | jw25
Dec 2, 2002 1:02 PM | | I've built wheels with Wheelsmith XL-14's, DT Revo's, and Sapim Laser's - all of which are basically the same idea.
All the wheels are still going strong, and no brand of spoke presented any problems during the build.
I've also rebuilt some boutique wheels with 14.15 straight-pull Sapim's, and they're doing fine so far.
I think the quality of the build, in terms of greasing the threads and nipple seats, getting high and even tension all-around, and stress-relieving the spokes, will make much more difference than the brand of spoke - stainless is stainless, for the most part. |
| Depends a lot on the , some different some nearly identical | Bianchi4Me
Dec 2, 2002 9:15 PM | | The most obvious difference between these different spoke manufacturers is in the od they use to produce their butted round spokes. DT-Swiss uses a gradual taper from the full-diameter ends to the narrower center section. It's like a very streched-out hourglass shape. Sapim and Wheelsmith both bring their spokes abruptly down to the smaller center diameter, and do so a relatively short distance from the spoke end. This means that the DT-Swiss butted spoke has more material and is slightly heavier, but the other two spokes are more susceptible to wind-up (twist) when truing and tend to be slightly less durable, as you'd naturally expect. The slight durability difference is merely my opinion, and Wheelsmith and Sapim might dispute that opinion, I suspect. Sapim in particular makes some pretty extravagant durability claims for their products. They do seem to work pretty well for Lance, anyway.
So, DT's round spokes are different due to the butting od from Sapim and Wheelsmith. But we aren't done. To further complicate your life (or enrich it, depends how you wanna look at it), WS and Sapim don't make their "14/15" and "15/16" gauge spokes the same size, so they are different too. WS "cheats" a little to save weight and makes their "14/15 gauge" spoke 2.0-1.7-2.0mm. Sapim and DT make their's 2.0-1.8-2.0mm. Similarly, WS's "15/16" gauge is 1.8-1.55-1.8mm whereas DT and Sapim go with 1.8-1.6-1.8mm for theirs. For the "14/17" and "15/17" gauge spokes, everybody agrees on 2.0-1.5-2.0mm and 1.8-1.5-1.8mm respectively.
As you can see, to really answer your question, we'd need to narrow it down to a particular spoke . Each company has some as far as bladed and semi-bladed spokes that may not exactly match what the competition is doing either.
Personally, I find all this to be a blessing for wheelbuilders, because it gives you more options to use when trying to find the right mix of weight and durability. I really like the Wheelsmith's DB14/15 a lot, because it gives you a little weight advantage while not being fragile or noodly like some of the super-thin spokes. It's not the ideal spoke for everybody, but it works very reliably for most MTB applications. I'm glad Wheelsmith decided to do their own thing, even though it does make things a little complicated sometimes. |
| That's................ | Mike T.
Dec 3, 2002 5:32 AM | | ......a nice post there B4M but I expected nothing less. What it all boils down to though is that the Top Three spokemakers make fine spokes, with minor differences, that we can trust completely.
I've noticed too that Sapim make some "impressive" claims for their spokes, none more so than for the CX-Ray (which I'm using). And if these claims are a bit exaggerated I don't know why they feel they have to do this because the list of winners on their spokes around the turn of the century was impressive and 2nd to none. |
| I gotta get this filter software figured out.... | Bianchi4Me
Dec 3, 2002 8:06 AM | | I have trouble understanding Sapim's ad claims. It's just bugs me that they claim their 14/17 gauge (2.0-1.5-2.0mm) spoke is more durable than their 14/15 gauge (2.0-1.8-2.0mm) model. Makes me wonder about the test procedure they used to get that result. As you note, half the european peloton is using their spokes, so they really don't need to goof with the numbers. They've got the "real world" race results to demonstrate their performance.
On a side note, I put a porn-filter program on the PC. Don't want the 4 year old (or me) clicking a phony link and winding up at some of these sites. It also seems to be editing my posts and deleting "offensive" words though. Word "me thod" (added a space so it wouldn't zap it again) became just "od" ;-). Guess they thought I was selling crystal "me th". It also is allergic to "ex otica" and eliminated that completely. Funny stuff, since when did "ex otic" get to be dirty word? I gotta remember to suspend the filter when posting. |
| Cough- raceteams usage as proof | Coolhand
Dec 6, 2002 11:26 AM | | The fact that a race team uses a product really doesn't prove anything other then that is what their sponsors or managers require. Same with Lance (although he is a bit pickier-- saddle and pedal wise, although I think he is now using the new Look-like Dura-Ace pedals instead of the vintage versions).
As for racing-- its the engine, not the spokes. Come on guys.
In downhill racing and freeride the equipment matters alot. But in UCI road racing there is a minimum weight limit, so as long as the parts do not fail on the road, UCI road racing does not prove much (especially with the frequently replaced road gear).
That being said-- all three seem to make nice spokes, although I am partial to DT Revolution and Supercomps myself.
Coolhand |
| Agree with the butting. | Dougal
Dec 7, 2002 6:47 PM | | I agree that the tapering on the DT butted spokes appears more durable than the sharp transition used by wheelsmith, I don't have any experience with sapim butted spokes.
I do know people who refuse to use butted spokes, they claim they all break at the transition. There is some truth in that but they only break at the transition when they are overtensioned.
Here's a question you may be able to help me with. What competition is out there for DT Alpine III spokes?
I'm building up a strong wheel for a peddy cab rider. 48 spokes and probably DT Alpine III spokes. Just wondering what other spoke options exist.
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